Saddle fit - help please!! Photos

[springtime1331]

Hi all, I just wanted some opinions on the dreaded saddle fit situation! Back story - horse is a just turned 5 year old connie x TB. Got a lovely saddle fitted mid march this year and we were making great progress. Sadly said pony has an Irish bog pony attitude to weight gain and working 6 days a week and receiving short rations she has put on quite a bit of weight meaning lovely saddle is now too tight and she was quite rightly increasingly reluctant to go into trot and our new lovely outline was no where to be seen. It doesn't help that she is now croup high which only helps to force the saddle to jam in behind her shoulder blades.

Saddler came out and was the opinion that she needs to lose weight but also have time to grow at the withers. I don't really want to be laying her off as it will make her even fatter.

I have borrowed a wide GFS pro generation saddle in wide and have tried this, padded out (as it is slightly too wide IMO to see if this will tide us over until she has grown and lost weight. My feeling was that she needs a fairly close contact saddle to offset the croup highness, with a nice flat tree. We also have the classic fat pony issue of everything ending up her neck.

I'd love some opinions! I will of course get my saddler out but at £40 a pop, I'd rather gather some opinions first. Pony seems to like it at the moment - tried it yesterday and today, but she can change her mind very quickly - usually just after I hand over my hard earned cash!

I'm no good at posting photos - so please let me know if I haven't linked to my photobucket correctly

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums...4205c4e8e1094be7eef6a11708585_zps01600fe1.jpg

 

[springtime1331]

Before riding - stirrups up
After riding - stirrups down

 

[springtime1331]

Bump!

 

[CBAnglo]

I had the same issue a couple of times with my Connie and I'm afraid that I just gave him a couple of weeks off and just worked in hand during that time.

Sorry she is overweight and that stomach will just push the saddle forward hence why you are now getting dips behind the wither made all the more prominent by her wither also shooting up.

As to that saddle the panels are not the right shape for her back (you can see behind how the slope away whereas her back is flat). What does the current saddle look like?

 

[springtime1331]

Thanks CBanglo. I've always had easy fit horses and she is a bit of a nightmare. That belly is even more of a nightmare! I will post some pictures of her old saddle. It is strange though, the very good and well recommend saddlers insists it still fits despite her weight gain but she absolutely refuses to work in it.

 

[CBAnglo]

Yes well I think horses are the best judges however I will say that some horses are so broken and used to riding in a badly fitting saddle that any other saddle (regardless of fit) will make them go better and also some are so stoic that they still carry on with badly fitting (even broken) saddles and only show a reaction when it gets too bad.

The table tops are the hardest to fit. It's getting something that is wide across the panels and a flat enough tree. And the fact that the pony gets fat on thin air does not help. Mine has fat pads despite being out on a bare field and getting a handful of chaff and being worked 7 times a week.

 

[springtime1331]

Dolly is the same. Really she needs to be stabled during the day to get her off the grass - she is on a bare paddock but as it is ex dairy land I imagine that the fresh new shoots are very nutritious. There is also a lot of clover.

 

[Wheels]

I agree with a previous poster that the panels and probably the tree are not flat enough for your horse.

What make is your other saddle? I would be putting this horse on a new regime, she needs less food and more work. I know that's difficult without a saddle but lunging/long reining/in hand walking will help if you reduce her food intake too.

 

[EmmaB]

Could you just do inhand work for a while so you don't have to ride but she will still be exercising? Lunging and longreining would help and maybe a grazing muzzle to help get the weight off so her old saddle will fit again.

Good luck

 

[springtime1331]

Wheels - her saddle is a little known make by saddler Jason Copeland. Emma, yes I think that is what needs to happen. If I could get 50kg off her I'm sure her old saddle would fit better. I was just hoping I could find a saddle that would make do in the short term to make it easier to get the work into her. We already do lunging and long reining so can continue doing this. I may try riding her bareback but as she is still fairly young it is a bit risky as I can't really risk falling off as have a mortgage to pay! I have thought about getting a treeless but I think with the large belly situation it would end up right up her neck. I did have a heather Moffett fhoenix for my last horse but dolly absolutely hated it.

 

[sbloom]

The tree is too curvy. I would look for something more suited to M&Ms and other flat backs. Large bellies do indeed contribute to shoving saddles forwards, but in a flatter tree, with a point strap, this should be much less of an issue as the instability will have gone. Have someone watch you in rising trot, I bet the back lifts, and it is this that will stop muscle developing as your weight is only over about half the panel area at one time - the front half when you rise and the back half when you sit.

 

[springtime1331]

Thanks Sbloom. That makes so much sense! I will attach some photos of the saddle we got fitted back in march. I actually think the same thing is happening with this saddle - it's not making contact at the top of the panels and I was surprised to find I could lift the back up significantly even when the girth is tight. It makes sense that the saddle is rocking in trot which also explains a small area of ruffled hair behind the wither/ top of the shoulder. So I was thinking that even with weight gain it was too tight - and now I'm wondering if in fact it is a bit too wide with a too curvy tree. The saddle also has quite deep rear gussets which I wonder is causing problems with her being croup high at the movement. Any way, it would be great to have some feedback with this original saddle which my fitter (who I bought the saddle from 5 months ago) insists still fits.

 

[CBAnglo]

The tree is too curved - the only reason it is sitting straight is because of the deep gusset. It is worse than the first.

Saying that, the horse has probably changed shape quite a lot in the last 5 months and the muscles wastage at the front will make the saddle sit closer to the wither and lift more at the back. Impossible to know if this is how this saddle fit 5 months ago (although the tree isn't right in any event it may have "fit" better 5 months ago).

 

[springtime1331]

Thanks CBanglo - I appreciate your comments! I would be the first to admit dolly has changed shape significantly over the last five months. She was so happy with the saddle for the first four months, I know it must have fitted her really well initially. It is a worry that she has some muscle wastage though

 

[CBAnglo]

It is unlikely to have "fit" 5 months ago - more like it fit better than it does. The tree is too curved regardless.

Do you have a saddle fitter that has a range of saddles that you can try? It is hard to see unless you get the saddle on the horse and see it being ridden. And then with a youngster they are going to change shape etc so every 3-6 months it needs adjustments. The tree however needs to fundamentally fit.

Have you tried any of the specific cob saddles like the Thorowgood or an Ideal built on a H&C tree? I am having the same issues with my connie made worse by the fact that he is only a 16.5" so many off the shelf saddles don't fit (a lot of makes don't go smaller than 17" unless they are made specially so is virtually impossible to find a secondhand one).

 

[springtime1331]

My saddler does stock a fairly large range and stocks ideal so I will ask her to bring a selection over. I've had a lot of success in the past with the ideal H&C for my mum's highlands so it would be worth seeing what the tree would be like on dolly - although she has more withers than most highlands. It is difficult with youngsters isn't it! She has had three saddles in the year I've had her, each one outgrown faster than the next. I've already gone down the thorowgood route - we had the t8 compact which has slim line panels but the tree was way too curvy. We tried the cob and found the panels were too wide and so sat off her back.

I hope you get a saddle to suit yours, what do you have at the moment? These porky natives are such a headache!

 

[CBAnglo]

I have a made to measure saddle made by a saddler in Walsall; but that was made 2 years ago when he was rising 5 - he is now rising 7 and has changed shape about 6 times since then (the saddle has been adjusted) but it is a dressage and I need a jump saddle. Impossible to find something that will fit both of us (I really need a 17"). I really like the look of the Jeffries cc event saddle (a la JFTD) however I cannot find it in a 16.5".

I think you will find her withers will even out somewhat (she does have muscle wastage on both sides I'm afraid). She will be much broader across the wither after some work and of course she will have evened out. The weight thing is not helpful - mine always goes out then up, out then up so every time he has a growth spurt I cant get anything to fit him.

 

[springtime1331]

I hope you find something that works for you. I have noticed that most of the major ranges only do full sizes rather than half. Have you tried the likes of the albion K2? I know some use them on connies and I know you can get half sizes by special request.

I feel awful about poor Dolly's muscle wastage. Not much of a way to start her riding career. I really hope I can get something to suit and prompto!

 

[cellie]

I feel your pain my horse just gained 50kilos which is great as hes tb so Ive ordered lovely saddle only to find out that its kent and master model that fits flat backed horses so wasnt listed properly . I need high wither not gpl (low profile) probably have to pay out for another saddle now

 

[sbloom]

Actively lifting the back of the saddle tells you more about the girthing than it does about saddle fit - if you girthed on 1 and 2 girth straps then it woul dbe much easire to lift the back then it would be if you girthed on 3 and 4, on saddles that have four straps. Try pressing on the pommel instead to see what happens, and rising trot is they key (canter and jumping as well). It is very common to see saddles like this, curvy trees where the makes has tried to make it fit flatter backs by fitting honking great rear gussets. Deep rear gussets are needed to balance a tree with a high pommel and cantle as used on a high withered horse, or on a dressage saddle. GP saddles etc for flatter backs need flatter trees period. You can still have a slightly deeper seat if the rails, that are against the horse under your seat, are flat, but usually the tree will look flat, low pommel and cantle.

 

[springtime1331]

Thanks again Sbloom - your feedback is so useful! If only you were in Leicestershire! If you press on the pommel the cantle end does lift slightly and dolly throws a peeved look. It is currently girthed on straps 1 and 3. There is no fourth strap. I was surprised when the saddler brought this one for me, as I was expecting a generally flatter saddle all round but when dolly went well in it I was just happy to find one that seemed to work for her. She has completely down tools now though and refuses to go faster than a walk in it now. Do you think the ruffled hair behind the wither is a sign the tree is rocking? Sorry to ask so many questions!

 

[sbloom]

I cover from Lincs to Cheshire down to the whole south coast and including Wales

Yes, ruffled hair below the wither is always movement, usually rocking or pivoting.