saddle fit on tb just out of racing.....

C

chestnutmarelover

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2011
Messages
404
Location
Zzummerset :-)
Visit site
I should really know the answer to this but problem doesn't really make sense to saddle fit!!! Just bought a tb just out of racing so very very high withers, massive crevices either side from no muscle/muscle wastage. Ive borrowed a thorowgood high wither dressage saddle, medium fit, which with the fat fish in appears to fit, sits level, isn't too tight over shoulders and doesn't move, tip or bounce, so why, when I trot does it tip me forward giving feeling of trotting downhill??! (Also using polypad & gel pad) Could this just be him having never had 'schooling'? Any thoughts gratefully received!!!
 
Mine feels like this too, but its just how they are built, mine has pronounced withers yet is croup high, with correct schooling she is working more from behind and liftng at the withers, but it would probably be best to get a saddle fitter out just to check the last thing you need is a horse with a sore back, coming out of racing, they are tired, sore and poor, best to do right by them from the start, it will be the first time in their lives that anybody cared.
 
yes, agree, ive given him a couple of weeks to 'chill & eat' (which, bless him hes found most strange) and am not planning on doing much with him till spring when hes had proper rest but thought the odd hack will help him settle & aleviate any boredom. He over-reaches terribly too (toe to toe) so will be starting the schooling from absolute stratch!
 
Last edited:
snopuma said:
...............thing you need is a horse with a sore back, coming out of racing, they are tired, sore and poor, best to do right by them from the start, it will be the first time in their lives that anybody cared.
Click to expand...
I can't let you away with that remark snopuma, while a few TB's may have been treated badly, I thing you will find that most stable staff and trainers are very concerned for the welfare of their charges, just because they don't get cuddles, does not mean they are treated in an offhand way, horses like to know where they stand, be well fed, and have a regular routine, and in racing yards in the UK, that is what they get.
We had a physiotherapist who checked every horse before racing, and in between races if required. world class vets with every facility and so on. Saddles were modern, designed not to cause bad backs, and the riders were mostly lightweight, the gallops well manicured, ans the tracks maintained for the well being of the horses. Unsound horses do not win races, in fact they won't even get to the races.
 
Mrs D 123 - haven't there been many threads about your misguided views, I have read quite a few of your posts and smiled at your ignorance, if you think that what happens under your nose is nationwide then you really need to get out more, and stop hijacking peoples threads.
 
Ladies, ladies! Let's get back on track and give the advice asked for.

Well done for giving an ex racer a home! You sound as though you have done all the right things by way of a saddle but he will be very unbalanced and on his forehand at the moment as he learns a whole new way of being ridden. Maybe a wither gel pad would help the downhill feeling.

The best advice I can give is to find a instructor who is experienced with ex racers and have one or two sessions. He/she may also be able to give you a bit of advice on your saddle.
 
Maybe just get a saddler out to check it? It might be just because he is on his forehand though.

My mums late horse came out of racing aged 8, he was a chaser with a big well known trainer and he had a charmed life. He had not wanted for anything and had always been treated and handled well, we got his full medical history with him and it was littered with physio visits and massages, dentist visits ect. Not all racehorses have had a bad life and are in pain, the stable lasses got so fond of him one of them bought him and I'm still in touch with the others that knew him.
There's good and bad trainers in racing like anything and it's a sweeping generalisation to say ex-racers have had horrid lives.

My little TB also came from a racing background and he too came a happy little horse who loves people :).
 
I have a symonds saddle that fitted my NH type 16.3 tb, who was most definatly not racing shape. It also fits my 16 hander flat TB type, with a bit of padding out (from the saddler!)
 
snopuma said:
Mine feels like this too, but its just how they are built, mine has pronounced withers yet is croup high, with correct schooling she is working more from behind and liftng at the withers, but it would probably be best to get a saddle fitter out just to check the last thing you need is a horse with a sore back, coming out of racing, they are tired, sore and poor, best to do right by them from the start, it will be the first time in their lives that anybody cared.
Click to expand...

I am pulling you up on this comment as well. Not good enough I am afraid.... Race horses are generally kept better than your average riding horse. Yes they have to work for a living but it's no different to a sheep dog working for its living.

Also for OP mentioning that there is muscle wastage and lack of muscle - racehorses are very well muscled as they are athletes and without muscle wouldn't be able to perform. They just do not have any fat!

Please think before slating different areas of the equestrian world. I do not slate happy hackers just as I do not expect them to slate me for racing.
 
Last edited:
I know we've gone slightly off subject, i'm sure there is good as well as bad race yards, just like any other.... the ex racer ive just bought was race weight as well as race fit & although yes, mostly muscle, he has NONE either side of withers which is where my problem is. (Also have since realised he was probably kept dehydrated to keep him calm...proof... no water in stable on viewing & owner mentioning needing to let him have a drink...yes I should of questioned at time) but now he has unlimited grazing and water the character & energy is appearing!!! Nothing unhandleable at mo fortunately :)
 
He could be unbalanced and he might not suit the shape of the saddle too well. My only advice is get a saddler out and be prepared for them to change shape quite a bit! My little-un ex racer has changed so much over the last year it's amazing - I bought an adjustable synthetic as I had a hunch it would happen :) I get the saddler to check every 3 or 4 months (Red is only 5 now) and often end up changing saddlecloths/numnah combos too (on advice).

He had 3 months out of racing before I got him and also doesn't get being 'a horse' still either, good luck!
 
My exracer has a saddle company event and I love it! It's fully adjustable too which I'm pleased I got as he changed shape so often and has serge panels underneath so totally comfy for horse! I'v got the full leather one, although they do a part synthetic one also (bit cheaper) and had the suede knee rolls and seat put on and a gel insert in the seat so it's comfy for me too!!! It's also cut to allow more freedom of movement in shoulders. Totally recommend.
 
chestnutmarelover said:
bumblelion...your saddle sounds amazing!!! What sort of money did you pay for it (if u dont mind me askin?!) I defo need to go for an adjustable one
Click to expand...

I paid just under £1100, although this was brand new and I suppose bespoke! They do two types, either a genoa which is the full leather or a verona which is part synthetic (although the seat and flaps are leather so you don't even know unless you lift flaps up!) in all their moels. They do loads check out their website:

www.thesaddlecompany.co.uk

You can pick these up second hand from about £200 to £600 ish on ebay though! They do so many different varieties. I'm looking at getting my ID a second hand one, although will need their native models as he's a tank and needs an XXW fit!!
 
No idea why this has posted twice!!!

chestnutmarelover said:
bumblelion...your saddle sounds amazing!!! What sort of money did you pay for it (if u dont mind me askin?!) I defo need to go for an adjustable one
Click to expand...

I paid just under £1100, although this was brand new and I suppose bespoke! They do two types, either a genoa which is the full leather or a verona which is part synthetic (although the seat and flaps are leather so you don't even know unless you lift flaps up!) in all their moels. They do loads check out their website:

www.thesaddlecompany.co.uk

You can pick these up second hand from about £200 to £600 ish on ebay though! They do so many different varieties. I'm looking at getting my ID a second hand one, although will need their native models as he's a tank and needs an XXW fit!!
 
If you do decide to go for a Saddle Company saddle, just make sure you have a SC fitter in your area. These saddles can only be altered by a SC fitter with a special tool, it's not a case of changing the gullet, but the tree is made of a thermoplastic material that can be widened and narrowed over and over again.
 
I think it can just simply be down to your TB's confirmation, many TB's have and should have quarters to die for, it's what makes a good race horse...amongst other things or course, so with some TB's they will be rather bum high which will give you that downhill feeling in your saddle but to some extent this will also improve with the right work, your horse will develop a different top line, will muscle up behind the shoulders and across the withers, many TB's that are still racing fit have that roach type back which again will alter the balance of the saddle even if it does appear to fit very well, but in time when your horse is working up correctly into a more advanced outline, then you will feel more of a difference.

You could explore the world of pads to help lift the saddle slightly at the front to stop you from tipping forwards a bit but you have to be careful that it does not compromise the fit elsewhere, which often it does, so it could be worth speaking to a good saddle fitter and getting some advice, if you think the saddle really does fit well enough as it is now.
 
Kenzo said:
You could explore the world of pads to help lift the saddle slightly at the front to stop you from tipping forwards a bit but you have to be careful that it does not compromise the fit elsewhere, which often it does, so it could be worth speaking to a good saddle fitter and getting some advice, if you think the saddle really does fit well enough as it is now.
Click to expand...


Agree with the above, the first saddle fitter we got out to our exracer told us he needed a sheep skin half pad underneath his bates 17. 1/2" as well as a thick saddle cloth but that put pressure on his back and through that he lost muscle tone, we changed to a new saddled fitter when he started rearing for no reason, our new saddle fitter is a specialist Wintec and Bates fitter and also a Mctimoy back lady. She looked at his back and saw straight away he had a short rib cage for a 16.3hh and the bates was sitting on his floating ribs. We brought him a Wintec 500 VSD 17" and it fits him perfectly, she made a mold of his back with her nobbly thingy and put him in a blake plate with a 4mm yellow pad on each side in the front of the saddle just to give it that extra room for his shoulders and we can ride him with just the saddle and he is goes perfectly.
Make sure you have a approved Bates and Wintec saddle fitter, they can be altered alot more that the average saddle fitter knows.

Also remember they will have built up completely different muscle groups to regular riding horses, its not about rebuilding their muscles its about retraining them to work in a different way.

xxx

P.S also my sisters exracer came from one of the top trainers in racing, he was in very good condition.
Yes their are some racers that arent treated very well but is the same in any horsey disaplin. Most trainers know that the wellfare and health of their horses is paramount to sucess. The yards are clean and tidy and the horses are in a routine and know the job they have to do. They have every thing they need at the drop of a hat to keep them in racing condition.
I sugest if you are going to point fingers at racing then you need to take off your rose coloured glasses and have a look around. Poor horse management, care and complete crulty happen all over the place not only in racing.
 
I had the same issues with my tb, although not out of racing but he ripped open his shoulder and stressed the weight off, so I was left with a hatrack.

When the tim came to ride he had huge hollows behind his shoulders, which quickly filled and changed shaped as well as putting on weight. The best thing was a farringtons saddle and a le muix half pad, which let me pad up as needed and take away when needed too. 3 months in and he out grew the saddle so then went for a black country as the tree suited him, started off the pad and when he finished changing I got it adjusted to fit again, but only very slightly out, so no real problem
 
Racing and saddle fitting are not words that go together very often - half tree race saddles, and even exercise saddles, tend to be narrow and do not help them build muscle. TBs may be muscley elsewhere but muscle loss is very common. On some racing yards the secretary is responsible for selecting a saddle for each horse from the tack room! They are not fitted indivdually by a proper fitter.

So, high withers and muscle loss. I definitely recommend a flexi panel saddle where the owner can afford it, or a used one can be found. I have a ReactorPanel and my love of this saddle led me to become a fitter.

In terms of traditional saddles you need to be careful that you do not go too narrow in an effort to get clearance - the tree needs to fit the angle of the ribcage at the POINTS which is at the lower edge of most muscle loss, where the horse is wider than it looks. A sympathetic deeper panel and/or padding (I like sheepskin in most cases) is the way to go to keep clearance.
 
I have an ex-racer who I thought was really quite a normal 16hh tb...but did have trouble with saddle fitting...in the end had one made and got it adjusted as and when it needed.
My mare was at a top racing yard and I think many of her problems stemmed from when she was sold after her racing career finished with two blown tendons...which had healed very well.
Bought by someone who had no idea what to do with a 5yr old tb with a bit about her!!
 
I have a Kent & Masters GP (cost around £700 new) for my ex-racer, he is well muscled but has hollows either side of his withers too.. The saddle fits great and is fully adjustable for when he bulks out.. I use a polypad underneath for the time being.

My friend also has an exracer with hollows on his back too, she rides him in a horrible cheapy synthetic thing (one of these that claim to adjust to the horse back shape that cost about £150!!), she always complains that it tips her forwards. But I tried it on my TB and it sat fine on him and didn't tip you anywhere!

It is probably the horses conformation that is causing this more than the saddle, I would look into getting something like a front riser pad - much cheaper than changing the saddle if it fits :)
 
I've just ordered a Kent and Masters Jump saddle for my TB (cant wait!) he came out of racing a year or so back so wont be like yours (in fact he's fat)
I currently have a T6 High wither which is a good saddle- adjustable etc.
GFS do a nice looking TB saddle although it seems a bit hard to track down- google GFS TB i'm not even sure its on their web site.

As for the racing yard bit- I work at 2 different race yards and not only are the horses VERY well looked after but they get cuddles on a regular basis- and not just from me either ;-)
 
Update! After trying many saddles, I finally got a new shape thorowgood T4 (not a fan of synthetics but it fits well!!) MW gullet & a prolite front riser it fits lovely, sits level all the way through, doesn't dip & he goes happily in it. Have started basic pole work with him to get him to pick his feet up which eventually should help get him off forehand (he is unbelievably clumsy in front).....roll on spring, lots and lots of work to do with him but really looking forward to it :-) Am I right in thinking there is more work involved in rehabilitating an ex racer than starting a youngster from scratch?!?!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top