Saddle fit quandary - please help

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Milliechaz

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Some advice would be greatly appreciated please. Bit of background for context. Got a new horse in July last year. He was being ridden in an Albion 17 inch saddle but it clearly didn't fit very well at all and he had no top line and a lot of muscle atrophy. I asked our local saddle company to come out and look at him for a new saddle - i have used this saddle company for around 20 years and never had a concern with any of their fitters. Their fitter the person i usually use was off work following an accident and they recommended one of their independent fitters who they had worked with for 20 years was qualified, insured and vetted by them and she had access to all of their stock so could bring saddles out to our visit. I had really wanted anything adjustable as he had growing to do but preferred an Arena GP as i have had one before. She asked his size and i send photos and said i would say 17 or 16.5 to which she said 16.5 would narrow down options. She turned up, done her checks and ended up fitting a 17 inch K&M GP (there were no Arenas in stock at the time) He has gained a lot more top line following the change of saddle and has always been very happy being ridden in it. Roll on to 4 weeks ago. I was on a clinic where some videos were taken and it was clear that the back of the saddle was slapping the back of his back when jumping, not that it bothered him in any way. As i had a camp coming up i arranged a saddle check. The person i have always used at the saddle company was back at work so i booked her rather than the independent, just because i have always used her and she was back at work, not due to any issues. She came out, i showed her the video and she started checking the fit of the saddle. First thing she said was that it was too long. He needed a 16.5 Arena in her opinion. For the record she didn't have any saddles in her van that she could have been wanting to sell to me. Anyway as it happened i had my sisters 16.5 Arena in my tack room following her losing her horse so we tried that on and it was perfect. So i am now using that for the time being until she buys another horse and needs it back. I got in touch with the saddle company and explained that i was really unhappy with the fact that the independent fitter recommended by them had sole me a saddle that was too long and asked if i had any recourse. They said i would need to speak to her direct as she doesn't work for them. Having spoken to the independent fitter she is really taken back, she knows the 2nd fitter well as they cross paths via the saddle company and was adamant that she would never ever sell a saddle that was too long/didn't fit and that she wanted to come out and have a look. In the meantime i have been to camp and my horse had a massage while there and there was no soreness at all in his back and the therapist commented that he had the best thoroughbred back she had ever treated. I am now in a conundrum. I have been told the saddle is too long and i cant get this out of my head despite him now showing any signs of discomfort at all. I have a saddle that is 11 months old that if it is too long is not fit for purpose. Now i understand and accept that a horse changes shape and may need a change of saddle to accommodate that but they don't change back length. I am down £50 for the saddle check a few weeks ago, have a saddle i cant use and am using a temporary saddle that needs to go back to the owner at some point. The independent fitter is coming out of Friday. I know she is going to say the saddle is fine because she is adamant she wouldn't have fitted a saddle that is too long and feels with a few fitting tweaks the slapping of the back would have been remedied. How do i know who to trust? I am no expert which is why i pay to have an expert out every time i need a saddle checking or changing. The saddle company have said they will sell the saddle for me for commission as a gesture of goodwill and i will come out with £628. That is all very well and good but i bought that saddle 11 months ago for £799 and it is still in the same condition. I cant afford to but a new arena at £999 but i have said if they will honour the £799 i will put £200 towards the purchase of a new Arena from them which i feel is more than reasonable. They wont accept. So how do i go forward. I cant stay on the borrowed saddle for ever, i have a saddle that has never presented any problems other than starting to move which is probably down to him changing shape a bit and i cant afford to buy a new Arena. To top it off i paid £50 for a saddle check 4 weeks ago and if the independent fitter comes out on Friday and says the saddle is fine and just needs tweaking that will no doubt cost me another £50 too and how do i get it out of my head that i have been told it is too long. Advice would be greatly appreciated and i am very sorry for the long read. To put a top hat on it i have ridden in the Arena all weekend at camp and it has been the most uncomfortable saddle after riding in the K & M for a year which is like a comfy arm chair.
 
I'm not sure any saddle would fit a horse in rehab after 11 months. Sometimes saddlers do try and squeeze another 0.5 inch if they think the rider needs it and a 17" in one brand can often sit differently to a 17" in another - especially if your horse had no topline.

I don't think you've got grounds to complain tbh and hopefully the saddler who sold you the 17" will be able to see what's going on when they come out.
 
Without pretending to be an expert, there are a few things that I thought while reading your post:

1. It has been a year since the saddle was fitted, which is very likely too long for any kind of redress even if you could prove that the saddle fitted was too long. You've even said that he has not had a sore back and that the therapist who saw him said that his back is good.
2. Is it possible (perhaps someone else might know?) that a 17 inch in one make/model fits similarly to a 16.5 in another and so you can't say, based on the 16.5 Arena being a good fit, that the 17 K&M is not
3. Is it also possible that his general change in shape affects the fit generally such that the way a 17 inch saddle fits has changed in a year?
4. The first fitter you used seems to be reasonable in wanting to take a look again at the saddle that another fitter has said is too long. Maybe give her a chance to do so.
5. Personally I think £628 for a year-old saddle that cost £799 isn't a terrible offer, and gives you enough to buy a second hand saddle if you can find the one you want
6. Finally, is it possible that when your sister gets a new horse the saddle she has doesn't fit, and so you could buy hers and sell yours, and end up breaking even, more or less? Which doesn't solve the fact you don't find it comfortable...
 
It isn't just the horse it has to fit, it has to fit the rider too and sometimes there has to be a bit of a compromise. If the horse had treatment and no back issues showed up, after what sounds quite intensive work at a camp then I should let the horse decide and see what the saddler says.
 
My big horse has a Barrie Swain dressage on a 17" tree, but with bulbous, gusseted, panels, so it spreads the weight behind the tree, and it actually measures 17.5 pin to cantle.

I really like this saddle, but it was too long for my small horse. I managed to get another of the same brand, that looks similar, that is also a 17" tree - but that one has upswept panels, fits on a smaller footprint on the horse and the seat rides slightly smaller.

It isn't all down to the tree size, is what I'm saying, even with a saddle of the same brand.

It sounds like you like the one the saddle fitter sold you and the horse was happy in it. I would expect it to need adjusting after a year.

Saddle fitting isn't an exact science.

I would allow the one who sold you the saddle to come and have a look. As you've been happy for a year, I would expect to pay for both visits.

The offer they made you seems fair, for a now used saddle that you have been happy with for so long.
 
Horse is fine and improved in the saddle, different people fit to standards length wise (and brands/panels are different) and original fitter was prob correct that 16.5 would limit your options.

I think they’ve made you a very good offer for an 11 month old saddle
 
I'm not an expert but I would assume on a TB that 0.5 inches wouldn't make a huge amount of difference, the horse has gone well in the saddle for 11 months and has had no adverse effects or soreness from the supposed extra half an inch. If the horse has been fine in the saddle why do you need to change it?
 
sbloom said:
I'd be delighted to quickly help (I'm a fitter), and forgive me, but I can't read that amount of text, and in bold. Is there any chance you can make it normal text and put some paragraph breaks in it?
Click to expand...
I had a go for you. Just cut and paste, not changed spelling or punctuation...

Some advice would be greatly appreciated please.

Bit of background for context. Got a new horse in July last year. He was being ridden in an Albion 17 inch saddle but it clearly didn't fit very well at all and he had no top line and a lot of muscle atrophy. I asked our local saddle company to come out and look at him for a new saddle - i have used this saddle company for around 20 years and never had a concern with any of their fitters. Their fitter the person i usually use was off work following an accident and they recommended one of their independent fitters who they had worked with for 20 years was qualified, insured and vetted by them and she had access to all of their stock so could bring saddles out to our visit.

I had really wanted anything adjustable as he had growing to do but preferred an Arena GP as i have had one before. She asked his size and i send photos and said i would say 17 or 16.5 to which she said 16.5 would narrow down options. She turned up, done her checks and ended up fitting a 17 inch K&M GP (there were no Arenas in stock at the time)

He has gained a lot more top line following the change of saddle and has always been very happy being ridden in it. Roll on to 4 weeks ago. I was on a clinic where some videos were taken and it was clear that the back of the saddle was slapping the back of his back when jumping, not that it bothered him in any way. As i had a camp coming up i arranged a saddle check.

The person i have always used at the saddle company was back at work so i booked her rather than the independent, just because i have always used her and she was back at work, not due to any issues. She came out, i showed her the video and she started checking the fit of the saddle. First thing she said was that it was too long. He needed a 16.5 Arena in her opinion.

For the record she didn't have any saddles in her van that she could have been wanting to sell to me. Anyway as it happened i had my sisters 16.5 Arena in my tack room following her losing her horse so we tried that on and it was perfect. So i am now using that for the time being until she buys another horse and needs it back.

I got in touch with the saddle company and explained that i was really unhappy with the fact that the independent fitter recommended by them had sole me a saddle that was too long and asked if i had any recourse. They said i would need to speak to her direct as she doesn't work for them.

Having spoken to the independent fitter she is really taken back, she knows the 2nd fitter well as they cross paths via the saddle company and was adamant that she would never ever sell a saddle that was too long/didn't fit and that she wanted to come out and have a look.

In the meantime i have been to camp and my horse had a massage while there and there was no soreness at all in his back and the therapist commented that he had the best thoroughbred back she had ever treated.

I am now in a conundrum. I have been told the saddle is too long and i cant get this out of my head despite him now showing any signs of discomfort at all. I have a saddle that is 11 months old that if it is too long is not fit for purpose. Now i understand and accept that a horse changes shape and may need a change of saddle to accommodate that but they don't change back length.

I am down £50 for the saddle check a few weeks ago, have a saddle i cant use and am using a temporary saddle that needs to go back to the owner at some point. The independent fitter is coming out of Friday. I know she is going to say the saddle is fine because she is adamant she wouldn't have fitted a saddle that is too long and feels with a few fitting tweaks the slapping of the back would have been remedied.

How do i know who to trust? I am no expert which is why i pay to have an expert out every time i need a saddle checking or changing. The saddle company have said they will sell the saddle for me for commission as a gesture of goodwill and i will come out with £628. That is all very well and good but i bought that saddle 11 months ago for £799 and it is still in the same condition. I cant afford to but a new arena at £999 but i have said if they will honour the £799 i will put £200 towards the purchase of a new Arena from them which i feel is more than reasonable. They wont accept.

So how do i go forward. I cant stay on the borrowed saddle for ever, i have a saddle that has never presented any problems other than starting to move which is probably down to him changing shape a bit and i cant afford to buy a new Arena. To top it off i paid £50 for a saddle check 4 weeks ago and if the independent fitter comes out on Friday and says the saddle is fine and just needs tweaking that will no doubt cost me another £50 too and how do i get it out of my head that i have been told it is too long.

Advice would be greatly appreciated and i am very sorry for the long read. To put a top hat on it i have ridden in the Arena all weekend at camp and it has been the most uncomfortable saddle after riding in the K & M for a year which is like a comfy arm chair.
 
HopOnTrot said:
I'm not an expert but I would assume on a TB that 0.5 inches wouldn't make a huge amount of difference, the horse has gone well in the saddle for 11 months and has had no adverse effects or soreness from the supposed extra half an inch. If the horse has been fine in the saddle why do you need to change it?
Click to expand...
I don't know if I do, that's the problem, I've got 2 people working for / recommended by the same company saying different things
 
If the horse has been going happily in the saddle, has built correct musculature and continues to have no ill effect then the saddle did fit and was fit for purpose. I'm surprised anyone has offered you anything to be honest, and I'm not entirely sure what you're unhappy about. Also, why are you trusting original saddle fitters word over the other saddle fitter and what your horse is telling you? Everyone fits differently and it's not an exact science, and saddle fitter B was looking at a very different horse 11 months ago.
 
You can arm yourself quickly with some basics and make your own assesment on the appropriateness of the saddle length - then when you talk to the professional fitters you'll have a frame of freference, and a feel for whether you think there's an actual issue. Simple rule is that the saddle should not extend past the last rib of your horse - a quick search on youtube will give you a coule of quick videos on how to accuratly see/feel that rib. Find it, pop the saddle on and have a look.

Do you have an issue with the sadlle...? If you do, to what scale? It sounds like you can recognise issues, you were able to see the muscle atrophy when your horses arrvied. Is the moveemnt when you're jumping the main concern? It sounds like the horses is working comfortably and your not seeing any discomfort or pain signs? The Massuse (I think we can assume they will hold a qualification and have a good reutation) reported his back to be in good healthy shape. So has anyone who's riden, palpated or watched your horse work in recent weeks in the first saddle seen any or flagged any other issues? You don't need to answer those questions back to me - I'm just hoping they might help you work through it in perspective.

And, to be fair to you and all involved, after a year (and its seems of a thriving horse), I don't think its reasonable to expect comeback from the first fitter or the company. As someone said, fitting isn't an exact science, there's too many factors, mostly horsey, but sometimes human too - I'm sure they used their skill and experience to get the very best answer they could then.
 
Anyone can check length. Put the 17” saddle on. Girth it up. Put your finger on the last rib. Is the saddle contacting your horse’s back past this point? (If tipping too much to tell then maybe try with a half pad to get it to sit more flat). If yes, too long.

Your horse has not been harmed by the saddle. You could try to get more for it privately so long as it was not new to start with. Equally you could probably find a second hand arena for a more affordable price.

Long term, it is usually good in life to have at least enough knowledge to check a professional is doing roughly the right thing. There are plenty of saddle fitting videos on YouTube. All you need is enough knowledge to know when something does not fit. Helps you know when to call the fitter as the horse changes shape too!
 
Thanks @Red-1.

There is no one single way to work out saddle length. Some believe the panel should really curve away sharply at the back rib and bear no weight beyond it, others say it's the tree that has to leave the back before the last rib, or sometimes T18 (which is a lot less space). With others I firmly believe you can fit it to carry the weight of the rider forward relative to its length (some saddles are designed with a more forward balance point, but generally not British made saddles) and even the tree could possibly extend beyond the back rib.

The law says that beyond 6 months you have to prove the saddle never fitted to get a refund. That may be possible with the above caveat.

Otherwise you've had a saddle to use for 11 months and if you get £799 back you've put on 11 months wear and tear without any cost to you. Saddles depreciate and I think the price they've offered to buy it back is absolutely fair, they've pretty much only taken off the VAT which went straight to the Govt anyway.

Please ALWAYS get a new saddle checked 1-3 months after fitting whether there's a discount or not, and then every 6 months, or even better, learn from your fitter how to monitor your own saddle fit and know when to call the fitter.
 
Red-1 said:
I had a go for you. Just cut and paste, not changed spelling or punctuation...

Some advice would be greatly appreciated please.

Bit of background for context. Got a new horse in July last year. He was being ridden in an Albion 17 inch saddle but it clearly didn't fit very well at all and he had no top line and a lot of muscle atrophy. I asked our local saddle company to come out and look at him for a new saddle - i have used this saddle company for around 20 years and never had a concern with any of their fitters. Their fitter the person i usually use was off work following an accident and they recommended one of their independent fitters who they had worked with for 20 years was qualified, insured and vetted by them and she had access to all of their stock so could bring saddles out to our visit.

I had really wanted anything adjustable as he had growing to do but preferred an Arena GP as i have had one before. She asked his size and i send photos and said i would say 17 or 16.5 to which she said 16.5 would narrow down options. She turned up, done her checks and ended up fitting a 17 inch K&M GP (there were no Arenas in stock at the time)

He has gained a lot more top line following the change of saddle and has always been very happy being ridden in it. Roll on to 4 weeks ago. I was on a clinic where some videos were taken and it was clear that the back of the saddle was slapping the back of his back when jumping, not that it bothered him in any way. As i had a camp coming up i arranged a saddle check.

The person i have always used at the saddle company was back at work so i booked her rather than the independent, just because i have always used her and she was back at work, not due to any issues. She came out, i showed her the video and she started checking the fit of the saddle. First thing she said was that it was too long. He needed a 16.5 Arena in her opinion.

For the record she didn't have any saddles in her van that she could have been wanting to sell to me. Anyway as it happened i had my sisters 16.5 Arena in my tack room following her losing her horse so we tried that on and it was perfect. So i am now using that for the time being until she buys another horse and needs it back.

I got in touch with the saddle company and explained that i was really unhappy with the fact that the independent fitter recommended by them had sole me a saddle that was too long and asked if i had any recourse. They said i would need to speak to her direct as she doesn't work for them.

Having spoken to the independent fitter she is really taken back, she knows the 2nd fitter well as they cross paths via the saddle company and was adamant that she would never ever sell a saddle that was too long/didn't fit and that she wanted to come out and have a look.

In the meantime i have been to camp and my horse had a massage while there and there was no soreness at all in his back and the therapist commented that he had the best thoroughbred back she had ever treated.

I am now in a conundrum. I have been told the saddle is too long and i cant get this out of my head despite him now showing any signs of discomfort at all. I have a saddle that is 11 months old that if it is too long is not fit for purpose. Now i understand and accept that a horse changes shape and may need a change of saddle to accommodate that but they don't change back length.

I am down £50 for the saddle check a few weeks ago, have a saddle i cant use and am using a temporary saddle that needs to go back to the owner at some point. The independent fitter is coming out of Friday. I know she is going to say the saddle is fine because she is adamant she wouldn't have fitted a saddle that is too long and feels with a few fitting tweaks the slapping of the back would have been remedied.

How do i know who to trust? I am no expert which is why i pay to have an expert out every time i need a saddle checking or changing. The saddle company have said they will sell the saddle for me for commission as a gesture of goodwill and i will come out with £628. That is all very well and good but i bought that saddle 11 months ago for £799 and it is still in the same condition. I cant afford to but a new arena at £999 but i have said if they will honour the £799 i will put £200 towards the purchase of a new Arena from them which i feel is more than reasonable. They wont accept.

So how do i go forward. I cant stay on the borrowed saddle for ever, i have a saddle that has never presented any problems other than starting to move which is probably down to him changing shape a bit and i cant afford to buy a new Arena. To top it off i paid £50 for a saddle check 4 weeks ago and if the independent fitter comes out on Friday and says the saddle is fine and just needs tweaking that will no doubt cost me another £50 too and how do i get it out of my head that i have been told it is too long.

Advice would be greatly appreciated and i am very sorry for the long read. To put a top hat on it i have ridden in the Arena all weekend at camp and it has been the most uncomfortable saddle after riding in the K & M for a year which is like a comfy arm chair.
Click to expand...
Thanks,I was on my phone at work rushing
 
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