Saddle fit question

[J_sarahd]

I’ve suspected pony’s saddle hasn’t fitted for a few days so I plonked it on his back without a numnah today.

I think one thing and one of the women on the yard thinks the opposite.

I have the saddler booked, but it’s not until mid-May!! He’s in a k&m saddle so basically which gullet can I change it to and try before the saddler comes.

I admit they’re not the best photos. So I’m sorry if you can’t actually work it out from them

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Not easy to tell but it looks like it's a bit low at the front. And is it far back enough it looks like it is sitting on the shoulder a bit in the first picture.

Another thing is the horses weight and muscle is he thinner or less muscled than say a month ago? Or has he gained a bit of condition?

 

[ycbm]

Looks too wide, the points aren't likely to be at the same angle as the shoulder, from those photos.

 

[Bosworth]

It’s difficult to see from those photos, but it looks a little wide so sitting low,

 

[J_sarahd]

It might be a bit forward because it was just put on him and properly adjusted as I would if I was tacking up.

He’s been pretty much out of work with not much turn out for the last month so there’s definitely reason for him to have changed shape

 

[ycbm]

I think the height at the wither is fine, I don't like saddles to sit too high, but the angles are wrong.
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[J_sarahd]

Oh I know the photos are awful! So sorry but thank you everyone. That’s what I thought and was either going to change the gullet or add a shimmed pad?

 

[ycbm]

I'd shim it unless the gullet change is quite small. Especially as spring weight gain may be on the way.
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[J_sarahd]

Yeah spring weight was also my issue and why I thought shimming would be plausible

 

[J_sarahd]

Does anyone have any recommendations re shimming?

 

[ycbm]

I think I would buy (or make) a front riser with a chamfered in edge, so no sudden end to the shim.

 

[holeymoley]

Much too wide, it’s not the correct angle for her shape. If you change the gullet it may work but then it may sit too high in front.

 

[J_sarahd]

Much too wide, it’s not the correct angle for her shape. If you change the gullet it may work but then it may sit too high in front.

So do you think it’s completely the wrong saddle for him? It was fitted by and bought new from a master saddler last June. The saddler I’m getting out in May is a different one as I would like a second opinion on it. He’s been going in it okay and has dropped down a gullet size last August/September time. I’m going to try shimming it first

 

[holeymoley]

So do you think it’s completely the wrong saddle for him? It was fitted by and bought new from a master saddler last June. The saddler I’m getting out in May is a different one as I would like a second opinion on it. He’s been going in it okay and has dropped down a gullet size last August/September time. I’m going to try shimming it first

Its tricky to tell without it being girthed up and seeing different views. Plus I’m no saddle fitter, just tried to train my eye over the years. If he’s been out if work and has lost muscle then you could possibly stick a half pad under it with shims to lift it a bit. I might get shot down for suggesting that though! Le Mieux have really good numnahs that you can add shims to.

 

[ycbm]

So do you think it’s completely the wrong saddle for him? It was fitted by and bought new from a master saddler last June. The saddler I’m getting out in May is a different one as I would like a second opinion on it. He’s been going in it okay and has dropped down a gullet size last August/September time. I’m going to try shimming it first

I think it is possible that putting in a gullet plate that brings the points in line with the shoulder slope will result in too high a clearance at the front arch, and maybe a tilted back saddle, but I don't see a huge issue with shimming it and waiting for a proper saddle fitting.
.

 

[LiquidMetal]

Do you have the next size down in gullet plates? I would say it’s quite a bit too wide so I’d definitely try going down at least one gullet size. You might still need a half pad after that. Lift the flap up and find where the tree point ends. Put your fingers underneath it. If there’s space between tree point and horse, it’s too wide and not supported. As soon as weight is in saddle, it’ll be on withers.

Personally I think it’s almost impossible to say it will be too high in front from a smaller gullet because we don’t have a side view to see if saddle is sitting balanced right now.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Do you have the next size down in gullet plates? I would say it’s quite a bit too wide so I’d definitely try going down at least one gullet size. You might still need a half pad after that. Lift the flap up and find where the tree point ends. Put your fingers underneath it. If there’s space between tree point and horse, it’s too wide and not supported. As soon as weight is in saddle, it’ll be on withers.

Personally I think it’s almost impossible to say it will be too high in front from a smaller gullet because we don’t have a side view to see if saddle is sitting balanced right now.

Sorry what do you mean by "put your fingers underneath it"? Underneath as in between the saddle and the horse ?
Sorry just trying to visualise this in my head !

 

[LiquidMetal]

Sorry what do you mean by "put your fingers underneath it"? Underneath as in between the saddle and the horse ?
Sorry just trying to visualise this in my head !

Yes sorry I should’ve written that clearly. Put fingers underneath saddle where the tree points are. If you can feel a gap between horse and saddle, you can make a pretty good guess that saddle is too wide.

 

[J_sarahd]

Do you have the next size down in gullet plates? I would say it’s quite a bit too wide so I’d definitely try going down at least one gullet size. You might still need a half pad after that. Lift the flap up and find where the tree point ends. Put your fingers underneath it. If there’s space between tree point and horse, it’s too wide and not supported. As soon as weight is in saddle, it’ll be on withers.

Personally I think it’s almost impossible to say it will be too high in front from a smaller gullet because we don’t have a side view to see if saddle is sitting balanced right now.

I do have the next size down as he’s been in it before. I’ve just never changed them before (saddler and a friend have previously changed them). It then would pose the question of it fitting right again once it’s changed I guess and having to keep a very close eye on it once he does start bulking out again.

As you can tell, I’m very inexperienced with saddles and usually just book an appointment as soon as it feels off and go from there. Quite annoying that I can’t get one until May, but I guess it is what it is.

 

[ycbm]

From your comment on another thread, the person who is telling you it is too narrow is looking at how it is pinching right at the top. It's only doing that because it's too wide lower down. Ignore them.

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[J_sarahd]

From your comment on another thread, the person who is telling you it is too narrow is looking at how it is pinching right at the top. It's only doing that because it's too wide lower down. Ignore them.

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Thanks ycbm. I did think that but obviously I’m not knowledgeable enough to challenge back. My only comment was it lifting at the back in trot and canter, which I know is due to it being too wide

 

[J_sarahd]

I swear finding a front riser is difficult when you’re not that knowledgeable. The le Mieux one is too expensive for me at the moment. Would a prolite front riser or multi riser work?

 

[ycbm]

This one is OK I've had one in the past

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Wintec-Raised-Comfort-Pad/c31307/

 

[J_sarahd]

Thank you ycbm! ?

 

[ycbm]

I would personally try the narrower gullet first to avoid spending the money but it should help until the fitter comes if you don't want to do that.
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[J_sarahd]

That sounds like a good plan to be honest as I can change the gullet plate tonight and try it tomorrow instead of waiting for the pad to be delivered. Thank you so much for your help!

 

[oldie48]

If the pony has lost some weight recently it might be worth considering using a front riser until he's put the weight back on, particularly as your saddler is hard to get out. That's assuming that you want the pony to put the weight/muscle back on.

 

[Rowreach]

I am amazed that anyone feels able to give you saddle fit advice based on a couple of photos like that OP. Even with the saddle girthed up and a raft of side-on, front, back and above photos it is difficult to assess it without seeing it in the flesh both stationary and static and with/without a rider.

Generally I'd far rather see a saddle too wide and padded up than one that is too narrow. But if you use a front riser then the inevitable result is that the saddle will tip back, which you don't want, and riding in a saddle that tips back makes you compensate by tipping forward, and that will push the tree points into the back of the scapula with every stride the horse takes and cause another whole issue.

If you really can't get a fitter out for the next few weeks, ask one knowledgeable person to assess it, or pm sbloom on here and ask if she will look at a selection of photos for you, because she actually knows what she's talking about

 

[ycbm]

. But if you use a front riser then the inevitable result is that the saddle will tip back,

This isn't inevitable at all. If the saddle is too wide then it will be tipping down in front and the addition of a front riser of the right thickness will put it level.
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[Baywonder]

@J_sarahd - are you able to send some photos to you saddle fitter for them to take a look at whilst you are waiting for an actual visit?