Saddle fitter

Green Bean

Green Bean

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Hi, has anyone had their saddles checked by one saddle fitter and then another to double check? I am in the situation where I have 2 saddles, both bought from the same saddle fitter, who is well known and registered etc. My mare has developed a bucking issue recently (last 3 months), has been seen by the vet who recommended a Regumate trial to rule out pain from ovaries, this hasn't done anything (I always suspected she was more diva than hormonal!). Before he comes back to check her and discuss options (kissing spine / sacroiliac) I have agreed to have her saddles checked (she bucks with both). Her GP she has had for over a year and was last checked this July and I bought her dressage saddle in July and it was fitted then. My saddle fitter is always booked up for quite a while so there was no quick fix there. Another saddle fitter is coming to the yard this week to check another horse, who, funnily enough has taken to bucking too, so I thought I would take advantage of this and have my saddles checked. I feel a bit awkward about it but need to put the needs of my mare first. Has anyone done this?
 
I have had a 2nd opinion before on saddles but I will say my mare was similar in both her jump and dressage saddle, turned out it was medical (SI/PSD). Not saying yours is but think if happening with both saddles likelihood of them both not fitting is slim. But worth getting them checked by someone especially if they are coming out to the yard this week :)
 
Yes, absolutely. The only issue is that, if both are registered with the Society of Master Saddlers, you're technically supposed to go through a complaints process before getting a second opinion. I sidestepped it by changing my custom to the second saddlefitter, but it sounds like that may not be something you want to do.
 
I wouldn't feel awkward about it, if they have not been checked since July and the dressage not checked since purchase the horse may well have changed shape in that time, I don't see it as a complaint or really a second opinion but more of a routine check to tick a box, if your own saddler cannot or will not fit in an earlier visit then use the one who is coming and take it from there.
 
If as you say she has developed a bucking issue only in the last 3 months & you got the new saddle in July that would be the time you got the new saddle but then again I assume its not that shes only bucking in the dressage saddle but both saddles?
I think its actually a good idea to have a 2nd opinion about horse matters as different experts see different things & we had the most terrible saddle advice & fitting from a so called expert!
Its also worth bearing in mind Ulcers as we had bucking as a symptom.
Good luck
 
Feedback on the saddle fitter. I am not one for acronyms, but OMG! Had the new saddle fitter come out and it was like chalk and cheese. She was so thorough, she measured circumference of girth, 3 areas along the back, all recorded on a page for future (my previous saddle fitter has never done this). Then feeling along the back to pick up any issues (picked up a pain near her bum which forms part of another thread). Only then was it time to fit my 2 saddles. An interesting point - for my GP saddle, I have an Acavello Gel Out seat saver and she pointed out that where the straps go under the saddle to tie in, the pressure had actually pushed the flocking in creating a hollow - needless to say, that is no longer on that saddle! She made changes to both saddles then I had to ride in each where she picked up a slight movement/slippage to the right. She recommended I replace my elasticated girths with non-elasticated because of this, very interesting, again, my previous saddle fitter has never done this. Last night I went online and looked up both my previous saddle fitter and the one yesterday and only yesterday's one is registered as a master saddle fitter. Interestingly, there was no difference in price. If anyone is interested, the link is here https://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/directory?strCategory=saddle-fitter
 
I know the pain of getting a new saddle fitter in, and ending up with physio/vet! It really shows how much most horses will put up with before they start to make their discomfort clear.
 
i wouldn't think twice about a 2nd or 3rd opinion. Ive had a saddle fitted and then had a second saddler come and look at it and told me it wasn't right at all. I then had a gp fitted and it made him incredibly sore so much so he had to have his spine xrayed (this has been fitted twice by two reputable fitters)
If i have any inkling that the saddle is making my horse unhappy i pop my bare back pad on to rule out saddle. Ive lost faith with the fitters and the treed saddles for my boy, changing to a solutions saddle has helped massively, horse seemed happy in it and im saving a fortune not having it refitted constantly. Not sure if he will be ridden again but im happy knowing after 3 years of trail and error we finally found what worked saddle wise.
 
Get that saddle fitter to check - most fitters, even if they are registered, have had minimal training. The SaddleFit4Life (Schleese) have three months training, most here have had three DAYS!! There is so much more to it than head and gullet, there is points pressure, pressure on the scapula, bridging and flocking to name just some.
 
I've always wondered about those little seat saver straps that go under the saddle... I couldn't bring myself to put them there, so I push mine into the keeper loop for the free end of the stirrup leathers.
 
Green Bean said:
Hi, has anyone had their saddles checked by one saddle fitter and then another to double check? I am in the situation where I have 2 saddles, both bought from the same saddle fitter, who is well known and registered etc. My mare has developed a bucking issue recently (last 3 months), has been seen by the vet who recommended a Regumate trial to rule out pain from ovaries, this hasn't done anything (I always suspected she was more diva than hormonal!). Before he comes back to check her and discuss options (kissing spine / sacroiliac) I have agreed to have her saddles checked (she bucks with both). Her GP she has had for over a year and was last checked this July and I bought her dressage saddle in July and it was fitted then. My saddle fitter is always booked up for quite a while so there was no quick fix there. Another saddle fitter is coming to the yard this week to check another horse, who, funnily enough has taken to bucking too, so I thought I would take advantage of this and have my saddles checked. I feel a bit awkward about it but need to put the needs of my mare first. Has anyone done this?
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Yes I have after advice on here about my saddle fit.

2nd opinion saddler said it wasn't too bad, but widened the tree half a size.

Fiona
 
There is so much to saddle fitting. The type of girth, how you tack up, how you girth up. The pain points are often behind the shoulder, its why the string girths (corded) are now recommended. The worst ones are the elastic ended girths, they cause so much movement.
 
Green Bean said:
Last night I went online and looked up both my previous saddle fitter and the one yesterday and only yesterday's one is registered as a master saddle fitter. Interestingly, there was no difference in price. If anyone is interested, the link is here https://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/directory?strCategory=saddle-fitter
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Not everyone will have access to a MSF. There are also lots of different perspectives on qualifications, and experience of those fitters with, and without.

JillA said:
Get that saddle fitter to check - most fitters, even if they are registered, have had minimal training. The SaddleFit4Life (Schleese) have three months training, most here have had three DAYS!! There is so much more to it than head and gullet, there is points pressure, pressure on the scapula, bridging and flocking to name just some.
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Not true at all. There is a company that trains for two days, one of which is a glorified tour around the factory, but most fitters have pretty in depth training. The SF4L course does not apply across all types of treed saddles, despite what some of their fitters sites, videos etc imply, so it can't be compared with SMS. SMS takes at least two years. I have been fitting 11 years and still consider that I'm training.

cobgoblin said:
I've always wondered about those little seat saver straps that go under the saddle... I couldn't bring myself to put them there, so I push mine into the keeper loop for the free end of the stirrup leathers.
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Yep, I've posted about this a lot, little dents in flocking from these, from saddle racks etc, DO feel the panels of your saddle regularly and you'll soon pick up on this damage. It's not hard, get your saddle fitter to show you, you'll spot issues earlier.

Kaylum said:
There is so much to saddle fitting. The type of girth, how you tack up, how you girth up. The pain points are often behind the shoulder, its why the string girths (corded) are now recommended. The worst ones are the elastic ended girths, they cause so much movement.
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Not true either, it depends on the saddle, how it's fitted. With over 60 collective years of experience by two colleagues and I fit 95% of the time with double ended elasticated girths, and they can allow more ribcage flex and swing. We fit mostly very wide horses where saddle stability is the most tricky.

I'm not the biggest fan of fixed girths in most cases but the Stubben one does have some give an in fact is one of my chosen recommended girths, the only non-elasticated one. Many people quote "research" that shows that elastic is bad for saddle stability but it's not available online, was almost certainly part of the development of the Fairfax girth, which used only a small number of elite horses and riders.

Anyone who extrapolates it to say never use elastic is wrong, plain and simple, and I have had a minor row with Centaur Biomechanics on Facebook where he would not engage with our experience. We would never tell other people with other saddles to always use elasticated girths, we just ask the same of other experts.
 
Pippity said:
Yes, absolutely. The only issue is that, if both are registered with the Society of Master Saddlers, you're technically supposed to go through a complaints process before getting a second opinion. I sidestepped it by changing my custom to the second saddlefitter, but it sounds like that may not be something you want to do.
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OP does not have to do anything except ask the second saddler to check the fit of the saddles she is a customer paying for a service she can do as she chooses .
However I would expect a saddler from whom I had bought two saddles to get a wiggle on and get to see me or arrange for me to meet her somewhere if my horse started bucking . A horse can change shape considerably in the time since these saddles where checked .
 
And that is why saddle fitting is subjective. As when attending my recent training day by a master saddler/fitter and bhs coach this is now their advice, which they quote from research done.
 
Sbloom is spot about girths apart from the fact that I dislike girth with elastic at one side nothing would put me off a saddler quicker than one who does accept that horses vary enormously and there is no one way to girth horses there are so many variables which affect what suits a horse and rider combination .
 
Goldenstar said:
OP does not have to do anything except ask the second saddler to check the fit of the saddles she is a customer paying for a service she can do as she chooses .
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If both fitters are SMS, and you ask the second fitter for a second opinion, the rules of the SMS are that they will point you to the complaints procedure.

You can bypass this by telling the second fitter that you want to move your custom to them, or simply not mentioning that you're asking for a second opinion.

In this case, the first fitter wasn't SMS, so it doesn't apply. And, as I said, it's a 'technically', is easily bypassed and some fitters probably don't pay attention to it.
 
I really couldn't care less about SMS complaints systems... They are welcome to sort themselves out.

If I want a saddle fitter I arrange one. If I wanted another opinion, I would just make an appointment with a different one... or even a third.
It's daft to think paying customers will abide by someone else's rules.
 
But OP is not needing a second opinion ,the horse has not had a fitting for months she needs a standard fitting check.
theres no way anyone can make a customer comply with that sort of restriction
 
sbloom said:
SMS takes at least two years.
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As I understood it there were a couple of days training and the rest was with mentors? Which is fine if your mentor is good, not so if your mentor isn't. Is that not true then?
There is a perception that fitting is just a cursory check of the head and gullet - a long term friend who has been producing saddles for many years maintains he can fit even though he has never had any training in anatomy that I can find. Sbloom were you taught the importance of good clearance of the scapula as it moves?
 
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