Saddle fitting - I'm in trouble!

S

SCMSL

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 February 2010
Messages
433
Visit site
Saddle fitting - I'm in trouble!
Ok so first of all, I'm in Portugal and people here don't even know what a saddle fitter is - so I can't find someone to come in and check my saddle's fit.

I finished riding today and felt something was very wrong. After closer inspection, I noticed while the saddle is pretty good on the withers, it lifts behind.

How can I possibly solve this?

My saddle in one of the newer models of Bates Isabell. I use an Acavallo anti slip pad directly on the horse and a very thin saddle padd on top.

Any help/suggestions highly appreciated!
 
it sounds like it may be pivoting at the withers, I would be inclined to assess if the fit can safely be widened one at the withers, then assess the fit overall, perhaps investing in a saddle pad that you can add some padding to at the front to lift it off the withers without it 'pivoting' and lifting behind. As long as a saddle doesnt touch the withers and gives decent clearance, I would rather have a saddle slightly too wide than slightly to narrow.

clear as mud?
 
Is that one of the changeable gullet models? If so, could you try the next size down for the gullet? If not, Acavallo do a front riser gel pad which might help. Agree with QB, better too wide than narrow, but it sounds like it's too wide now. Henry's new saddle came with an XXW and lifts at the back. Adding a front riser (prolite in my case) helped immensely, but saddle no good for my back, so I haven't bothered changing the gullet, as it's for sale.
 
Yes, it has a changeable gullet. I measured it with that piece the kit brings, and its clearly a black gullet I should be using (she's not in between sizes or anything).

So let me see if I got it right - I should be using something to lift the saddle in front?

Should I re-measure the saddle with the back pad on the horse? (I measured it directly on the horse's skin)
 
Try folding up a tea towel and placing it under the front of the saddle to mimic a front riser, if it works well then invest in a prolite pad with front shims that you can adjust. Good luck with it
 
If it's a bates the trees are quite curved so it may depend on whether your horse's back shape mimics this or not.
 
Queenbee said:
it sounds like it may be pivoting at the withers, I would be inclined to assess if the fit can safely be widened one at the withers, then assess the fit overall, perhaps investing in a saddle pad that you can add some padding to at the front to lift it off the withers without it 'pivoting' and lifting behind. As long as a saddle doesnt touch the withers and gives decent clearance, I would rather have a saddle slightly too wide than slightly to narrow.

clear as mud?
Click to expand...

Lifting at the back is more likely a tree that is too wide, not a tree that needs widening. A too wide saddle also places uneven pressure at the front, more at the top of the panel whereas a too narrow tree puts pressure at the points. Fine on some horses, many like the tree to be spot on to get totally even pressure.

SCMSL said:
Yes, it has a changeable gullet. I measured it with that piece the kit brings, and its clearly a black gullet I should be using (she's not in between sizes or anything).

So let me see if I got it right - I should be using something to lift the saddle in front?

Should I re-measure the saddle with the back pad on the horse? (I measured it directly on the horse's skin)
Click to expand...

The gullet width must be used against the horse itself, and should be parallel to the horse's side. Do you think the saddle is in balance? Being too wide or too narrow, lifting at the back and the saddle being out of balance are all separate issues, fixing one can cause another to be out. Can you post photos as per http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk0s4nNYNtw?

ester said:
If it's a bates the trees are quite curved so it may depend on whether your horse's back shape mimics this or not.
Click to expand...

This! A rocking tree is usually too wide or too curvy from front to back. You can shim temporarily but it is not about a front riser or rear riser pe se, it is about keeping the saddle in balance and stopping the rock.
 
Thanks for your suggestions!

I'll be taking a few pics tomorrow so hopefully you can have a better idea of the issue.

Cookies and tea for everybody :)
 
just to add that with wintec and bates I do find that the front has a tendency to drop once you get in the seat, Ebony was clearly a black on the guage but rode and fitted better with a medium wide, ben is a medium wide, but for a long while a wide was more suitable for him, play around with the gullets, check the fit in and out of the saddle and get someone to watch/video you riding in it. The towel idea is a good tip, I had to do that the other day with a dressage saddle to adjust how it sat, i use a saddle cloth, then the teatowel, folded lengthways twice then placed over the horse, then the saddle.
 
Yes I think it is probably too wide. My saddle fitter told me to occasionally put the saddle on, on its own, and push down on the pommel, if the back moves then it has got too wide. I am sure a banana shaped tree wouldn't help either. The tea towel thing sounds like a good idea :-)
 
So I managed to take some pictures today - took some with saddle and some without so you can better assess conformation.

r8zp.JPG


uu3s.jpg


32cp.jpg


vts2.jpg


s4s9.jpg


cd7p.jpg


w1l.JPG



In the last one you can see how I can almost put my whole hand under the panel without much effort.
 
My girl is a similar shape (without so much wither) and I'm having similar problems with my winter dressage. In fact I have the saddler coming out today.
Basically the panel in the saddle is too curved for the horses back. This means, however narrow you have the front, the back will always lift because the panel is a banana shape. A good way to test if this is the problem is to fold up a towel or something and put it just under the front to lift the front if the saddle up and see if it still lifts at the back. If it does then the saddle is the problem. If not then you either need some more flock in the front it you need a narrower gullet.
 
Gosh - it seems to me that your horse's back is assymetrical to quite a large degree, which probably isn't to very unusual given that we humans are often lopsided too!

The saddle obviously isn't a good fit as it rides up at the back - don't see quite what you can do about this because its fundamentally about the whole shape of the saddle and don't think there's any quick fix you can do TBH.

Is there another saddle you could try?

Gosh, feel for you in your situation with no saddle fitter around:(
 
you can see how straight her back is in the first picture which makes me think that she just isn't going to fit a curved tree. If you were to make that narrower and lift the front so the back sit downs I think this would push you backwards as it would result in a tilted back seat.

Is there any chance of you getting hold of a throughgood instead? as you would keep the adjustability but have a flatter tree.
 
Thank you all for your input.

Yes, her back is quite asymmetrical. I had the back lady out a few weeks ago as I was a bit concerned but she said it was normal for such a big horse at this age (she'a only 5).

You guys have confirmed my biggest fear. I knew there was something very wrong with the fit but was hopping it would be some miracle low cost solution.

Here in Portugal people tend to keep saddles for ever because they fail to realise one saddle cannot fit every horse they own. So good used saddles are very rare - which means I have to buy them new, and lately I've bought a new saddle almost every year! This is proving quite expensive but I guess there is no point in insisting on a hopeless situation.

Other than the thoroughgood, what other saddles would you suggest?

The only saddle I have access to is my trainers county, but it was custom made so even if I try it and it fits I can't get one exactly the same...

Basically, I want to scream a bunch of swearwords!!!
 
Last edited:
I don't even know any good saddlers so I wouldn't know who to ask... But it would be stellar if anyone could ask theirs if they would be open to it! =D
 
The saddle is too low at the front and generally too wide all round. Pad upwith a towel or folded gamgee. The horse also has some muscle wastage and isnt straight. Padding at the front will allow the musclature to re-develop and will stop the saddle rising at the back. I would also use a not-very-thick numnah or saddle cloth with the saddle.
 
Last edited:
Yes, her back is quite asymmetrical. I had the back lady out a few weeks ago as I was a bit concerned but she said it was normal for such a big horse at this age (she'a only 5).
Click to expand...

In fact I have found the exact opposite - young horses tend to have more even backs with less/no muscle wastage purely because they either haven't been ridden, or haven't been ridden for very long. Hence there has been less time for ill fitting saddles etc... to damage their backs/cause muscle wastage.

I also think that that saddle has a too curved tree for your horse.

Have you thought about going down the treeless/leather treed saddle route? A good quality and carefully selected saddle (they are not 'one size fits all' and a secondhand quality one will be better than a new cheapo one) of that type might be a good option for you. Solution and Heather Moffet would be worth looking at.
 
Ok so I hope you can help me brainstorm some ideas. What saddles do you think could work on her?

I saw this one on ebay and it looks nice - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorowgoo...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item232d9bf09a . Does anyone know the model?

I do need a deep seat as the horse has huge paces and I need a saddle that helps me stay on board! (and thats why I wouldn't even consider a treeless saddle, haven't seen any truly deep ones)
 
Checked the Vogue out - not nearly deep enough. And I really don't want to buy yet another saddle, only to not be able to ride in it... I have finally figured out the kind of saddle I need, now I just need one who actually fits the horse as well.

Just came across the WOW website. Seems like a nice concept, I wonder if it could work.. that way I could maybe just send photos of the horse periodically to a fitter and see what s/he thinks and change what needed to be changed myself. Does anyone know how nice they are in person and how expensive?
 
well I have a wow too lol. what I will say with a wow is get one on trial. a very few horses really do not like them, they need a good fitter (wouldn't be happy to fit one myself) and it can take the rider a little while to get used to it. I love mine, nothing else comes close but have nothing to use it on atm and will not get rid of it. I think new they must be getting on for a couple of grand now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top