Saddle fitting problems, is it the fitter, saddle or rider??

Leo Walker

Leo Walker

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Long story short, got a brand new GFS XCH Haflinger saddle for my cob. The tree is perfect for him as far as I can tell I had a fitter out who tweaked the flocking a tiny bit. The cob seemed to love the saddle and went brilliantly. Then he didnt go brilliantly after about 20 rides. Had back/teeth/saddle checked. Some teeth issues and the saddle was bridging badly apparently. I put it down to the flocking settling.

I got a different fitter out and she spent a long time getting it right and saw him ridden, tweaked it a bit, saw him ridden again and was happy. The cob was happy. Roughly 20 rides in and its really, really, really not right! Its too high in front and I initally thought the tree had twisted as it was so wonky. Closer inspection showed that it appears to be flocked more on one side, to the point its visible to the naked eye it also feels very lumpy and like there are holes in the flocking. Hes been going ok, not brilliantly and has been a bit ungenerous about things for the last couple of weeks, but not as bad as before.

Both times the roughly 20 rides have been under different riders, all very LW apart from me. The only times I have ridden him, roughly 6 times, have been for 15/20mins in walk (apart from 1 trot that was 2 laps of the school) all with my instructor there who is very, very hot on position, ie she rides, I get on and the cob ambles round in a slow walk while I have my position corrected and work on feel etc. If I was sitting wonky or heavy etc she would correct me immediately, so I dont think its a rider issue?!

But why is this saddle so hard to fit/flock?? The latest fitter has a really good reputation and most of the yard use and are happy with her. To be fair so did the first one but I wasnt impressed she never saw him ridden at all!
 
My best guess is that the second fitter did her best with what you have, which is a badly fitting saddle. I do not see how the flocking settling would cause the saddle to bridge that makes no sense . Has the horse changed shape with the work? Or through age related growth, if he grew some wither maybe? It is bad the first sadder did not see you ride. My thinking is if they did not care enough to do that did they care enough to get the fit right in the first place?
 
The second fitter said the original fitter had flocked it too much in front and as it settled it bridged. It was brand new so it didn't sound far fetched to me.

I wasn't there for the second fitter but that's the note I got left. But either the second fitter has done an appalling job or something weird is going on with it. It's flocked noticeably more on one side, visible when you look at it. It's also lumpy. Not hard, very soft but with what feels like holes in it.

He's not changed shape at all and is even so there is no reap at all to flock one side more. I would have expected her to say something if she had, and would also have gone mental as would never ever want a saddle flocking unevenly under any circumstances.

I think I've just had 2 terrible fitters out as there's no other logical explanation :(
 
If you email Ingeborg Taffijn, she is a saddle ergonomist (which takes fitting to a whole other level) she will tell you when she is in the UK next and maybe your area. She is trained by Schleese but can reflock most saddles in situ and adjust any that have an adjustable tree. If you want her email address message me.
 
A saddle fitter has to fit the saddle to both the horse and the rider. If you weren't there, as you say, for the one fitter, how are they supposed to be able to do their job properly??

Not defending them if they've done a truly crap job, but just saying they were presented with less than ideal circumstances in which to do their job.
 
gunnergundog said:
A saddle fitter has to fit the saddle to both the horse and the rider. If you weren't there, as you say, for the one fitter, how are they supposed to be able to do their job properly??

Not defending them if they've done a truly crap job, but just saying they were presented with less than ideal circumstances in which to do their job.
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Once you've got the saddle, unless it's a WOW, it can't be changed to fit the rider, can it? Given a saddle the owner already has, the only option is to fit it to the horse. Surely it makes no difference if the rider (who in this case is one of several anyway) is there or not?

OP I'm another who doesn't understand how flocking settling can cause bridging. Bridging is either caused by too flat a tree, or too little stuffing in the middle. I can't see how settling at the front can cause a saddle that wasn't bridging to bridge.
 
The saddle was a really good fit when it was brand new, and the first fitter said she would just tweak it so as it settled it was ok. She only flocked it at the front, so as it settled it actually meant the front was flocked too much, which is the same as the middle being flocked too little I assume. Who knows!

All I know is the first one definitely didnt do a great job, and I dont think the second one did either :( It felt and seemed fine at first though. Then I think its gradually got worse, until tonight when it was visibly twisting on his back, which was when we took it off and looked at it properly. We honestly all thought the tree had warped at first, until we saw how uneven the flocking was. The saddle is now totally unusable as it is.

I think the long and short of it is, I've had 2 fitters who have done a terrible job, and I'm just trying to find excuses for them. I'm going to have the panels dropped and all the flocking taken out and refitted. So now I have to find another fitter and hope they do a reasonable job!
 
FrankieCob said:
What sort of problems? I've never heard of any issues with them, but would definitely be interested in hearing from anyone who has!
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Well I bought a new horse, and had an XCH jump saddle fitted. I was just borrowing that one from the saddler while mine was on order. I had ordered one exactly the same only in a different colour. All was fine with the one I had borrowed, but then the problems started as soon as I started using the new one. He refused everything xc, which wasn't like him, and started grinding his teeth when girthed up. There were other lameness issues going on as well, which may or may not have been related/caused by the saddle/exacerbated by the saddle etc. As soon as I started riding bareback, I had a forward going, soft, round, happy horse. Put the saddle back on and he's lame. as I said there were other things going on, but looking back, everything ties to the saddle in some way at least. I have had 2 saddle fitters out who I trust and who both don't know why the saddle is causing such a problem.
 
FrankieCob said:
The saddle was a really good fit when it was brand new, and the first fitter said she would just tweak it so as it settled it was ok. She only flocked it at the front, so as it settled it actually meant the front was flocked too much, which is the same as the middle being flocked too little I assume. Who knows!

All I know is the first one definitely didnt do a great job, and I dont think the second one did either :( It felt and seemed fine at first though. Then I think its gradually got worse, until tonight when it was visibly twisting on his back, which was when we took it off and looked at it properly. We honestly all thought the tree had warped at first, until we saw how uneven the flocking was. The saddle is now totally unusable as it is.

I think the long and short of it is, I've had 2 fitters who have done a terrible job, and I'm just trying to find excuses for them. I'm going to have the panels dropped and all the flocking taken out and refitted. So now I have to find another fitter and hope they do a reasonable job!
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If it was going to bridge when it settled, then I would have expected it to be bridging even worse when it was first flocked.

If you continue to have bridging problems, as I did once when I had a horse no tree seemed to work on, then a WOW korrector pad can be a great solution.

I hope you get this sorted. If nothing else, the lumpy flocking is a complete no-no.
 
Is his musculature even?
When you say it is twisting on him I can't quite visualise what is happening? Is it moving to one side at the back or?

I might question the quality of the original flocking in the saddle, if I were you I would get the second fitter back and get her to have a proper look, potentially open it up and see what she thinks is happening. With you there of course. I too do not see how the flock settling in the front would result in bridging.
 
god knows then! When the second fitter said that it made sense to me at the time, but realistically, if it had never been flocked at all then it would have been fine. I'm just about to start ringing more recommended fitters to see if anyone can sort it out for me. Until then he can have his cheap, bog standard, synthetic dressage saddle on. Its never been flocked or fiddled with and its never cause him any problems either!
 
OP do you have templates of your horse back .
I always have templates you then know how much and where the horse has changed shape .
I have had one horse who in a period of intense work and changing from driving to riding had to have his saddle adjusted every two to three weeks .
Hocks issues and spine and SI problems can also cause weird things to happen to saddles and flocking as the horse attempts to shift the discomfort .
 
ycbm said:
Once you've got the saddle, unless it's a WOW, it can't be changed to fit the rider, can it? Given a saddle the owner already has, the only option is to fit it to the horse. Surely it makes no difference if the rider (who in this case is one of several anyway) is there or not?

.
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Seeing the owner ride can explain a lot of things to the saddler/fitter as to how the saddle has 'worn'.

For instance, I used to share the ride on an old horse of mine with a four star eventer, who, due to previous injuries, could twist every saddle to the left. (By that I mean the tree and flocking, not sliding the saddle off to the left of the horse.)
 
I bought it new, both fitter only came to check it.

Nope no templates. I would be very, very surprised if he has changed shape. But hes definitely not unlevel so theres no reason for it to be uneven.

Gunnerdog, I'd ridden in the saddle twice, for roughly 15 mins a time when the second fitter saw it, so there wasnt really any opportunity for me to wear it. I suppose its possible this time as I had ridden a bit more, but it didnt happen with my other horses saddle and I only ride him with my instructor there and in walk, and shes very hot on sitting straight and correctly etc.

I've booked http://www.breathesaddlery.co.uk/ to come out. Shes local, she can get here next week and having spoken to her on the phone and read her website, she seems like a good bet. So hopefully I'll get some answers, even if as usual, its me :lol:
 
gunnergundog said:
Seeing the owner ride can explain a lot of things to the saddler/fitter as to how the saddle has 'worn'.

For instance, I used to share the ride on an old horse of mine with a four star eventer, who, due to previous injuries, could twist every saddle to the left. (By that I mean the tree and flocking, not sliding the saddle off to the left of the horse.)
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I agree with you.But in this case the horse had been ridden by at least three people, the least amount by the owner you seemed to be criticising for not being there, which seemed a little unfair.

Also, you used the expression 'fit the saddle to the rider' which afaik can't be done to any saddle that has already been made except a WOW.
 
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Op, if I'm reading correctly you purchased the saddle then after had a fitter out who tried to make it fit?
Ie- it was never sold as a saddle that fitted the horse
I'd say this saddle just isn't the right saddle for the horse.
 
A friend had a problem with a.gfs, made her horses back sore. Got a second opinion and in that saddle the stirrup bars where pressing on.his back when she as sat in.the saddle as there was not enough padding/flocking underneath.

Gone to a bates cob saddle and has not looked back, though she does get a cair fitter to fit it
 
I feel for you - saddles are such a nightmare.

I've just given in and got a port lewis impression pad, which at least gives me something ti work with..
 
poiuytrewq said:
Op, if I'm reading correctly you purchased the saddle then after had a fitter out who tried to make it fit?
Ie- it was never sold as a saddle that fitted the horse
I'd say this saddle just isn't the right saddle for the horse.
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No I purchased it as very likely to fit the horse. But it was aslo very cheap and i could have sold it seondhand for 3 x what I paid new for ir, due to a closing down sale. It would almost have suited me better if it didnt fit. She said it was fine, then decided to tweak the flocking at the front. No idea why.

Now after the second fitter the saddle has more flocking in one side and feels like there's holes almost in the flocking.

I spoke to the person who was present when the second fitter came out tonight. He said that she told him the saddle was slipping and flocked it to stop that. I'd never known it to slip so that's odd in itself. Either way, there's a problem and it's being caused by something, and so far neither fitter has done even a half decent job so I'm starting there
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I suggest that rather than a saddle-fitter, you get a master saddler to come and look at your saddle, a course of action that my vet recommended when my ID had a back problem.
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I thought Master saddlers make saddles not fit them? Either way, I'm happy so far with the person I spoke to on the phone today, so I'll see what happens with her firsg
 
I have had major problems with saddle fit for one of my horses, I bought a saddle from a well respected master saddler / fitter. The saddle that was chosen and fitted to both me and the horse, and I was seen ridden in the saddle. After a couple of months the back of the saddle started bridging. Saddle refitted and reflocked. A couple of months later the rear of the saddle was impinging on the spine and causing the horse a lot of pain and it was twisting which was causing uneven muscle. Saddler out again. After having to start legal proceedings against the saddler, the saddle was taken away and rebuilt and after that it was much better. A few months later the saddle wasn't fitting again. I changed saddle fitter and he has been much more thorough with the fitting and suggested that we had an osteopath look at the horse as she was wonky. We both were treated by the osteopath as we were both wonky and trying to compensate for each other. Months on horse and human are now straighter and the horse is working through a lot more. I still have the fitter out every 4-6 months as she has gained muscle which is now more even since the saddle has been fitted properly.
 
If you think it is bridging it could be helpful to check the fit with the chalk method?
Chalk saddle and place on horse, and I think you can chalk horse and then put on saddle. I know that the saddlers involved in Tiarella's complaint about a bates not fitting did this to make a point.

If saddler was told it was slipping it does make sense that they have then flocked one side more to counteract that.
 
FrankieCob said:
No I purchased it as very likely to fit the horse. But it was aslo very cheap and i could have sold it seondhand for 3 x what I paid new for ir, due to a closing down sale. It would almost have suited me better if it didnt fit. She said it was fine, then decided to tweak the flocking at the front. No idea why.

Now after the second fitter the saddle has more flocking in one side and feels like there's holes almost in the flocking.

I spoke to the person who was present when the second fitter came out tonight. He said that she told him the saddle was slipping and flocked it to stop that. I'd never known it to slip so that's odd in itself. Either way, there's a problem and it's being caused by something, and so far neither fitter has done even a half decent job so I'm starting there
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Ah ok, sorry was being a bit dumb!
How incredibly annoying.
I wonder what GFS are like as a company? Wonder if it may be worth running all this past them in a nice friendly way of course ;)
Just see if they can give any advice or thoughts?
 
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