Pictures Saddle fitting question

[MJN72]

Trying out a Devoucoux saddle. Looks like it fits ok and horse moves nicely in it, but after a 30 minute steady exercise he’s left with some lumps (see pics.. 1st pic side on view and 2nd pick is more a birds eye view). Lumps are fairly soft and more on one side. Do not seem to bother him at all. Can’t see how saddle can be pinching him in these areas, or friction, as looks sufficient clearance from the saddle.
Appreciate your thoughts/comments.. thanks x

 

[sbloom]

No, not good. It's usually thought to be due to excess pressure in the areas immediately adjacent. French close contact style saddles tend to be built for a certain type of horse and are, arguably, marketed to a wider range of shapes than that. Look up our discussions on here about close contact saddles, some love 'em, as a saddle fitter I'd say there are better options including forward balance saddles that will sit you the same or better.

On a general point I think it's unhelpful to use the word pinching, but actually a lot of fitters use it too so this is nothing personal, it's a short hand but it doesn't mean a lot. There is pressure and there is movement, if we focus on that we get much better answers.

 

[IrishMilo]

Are you sure there was nothing on your saddle pad? Seems strange that even a badly fitting saddle would cause lumps like that.

 

[MJN72]

Are you sure there was nothing on your saddle pad? Seems strange that even a badly fitting saddle would cause lumps like that.

No, saddle pad has nothing on it, I did check x

 

[MJN72]

No, not good. It's usually thought to be due to excess pressure in the areas immediately adjacent. French close contact style saddles tend to be built for a certain type of horse and are, arguably, marketed to a wider range of shapes than that. Look up our discussions on here about close contact saddles, some love 'em, as a saddle fitter I'd say there are better options including forward balance saddles that will sit you the same or better.

On a general point I think it's unhelpful to use the word pinching, but actually a lot of fitters use it too so this is nothing personal, it's a short hand but it doesn't mean a lot. There is pressure and there is movement, if we focus on that we get much better answers.

Thank you for your comments. I’ve tried a Childeric too but didn’t have this issue. He’s an ISH.. what ‘forward balance’ saddle brands would you recommend please? x

 

[Rowreach]

What type of saddle do you normally ride him in?

 

[MJN72]

What type of saddle do you normally ride him in?

I’ve also been trying a Childeric which I don’t have that problem with. The main saddle I was using was a Stubben but we don’t like it!

 

[sbloom]

Well I can mention Amerigo as probably a better bet, a much wider choice of trees and fittings, but can't mention the brand I'd really recommend as I fit it and that would be advertising

 

[Rowreach]

I’ve also been trying a Childeric which I don’t have that problem with. The main saddle I was using was a Stubben but we don’t like it!

Has the Stubben been giving you any problems? I'm wondering if the "new" saddles are highlighting a problem with the old one.

I would say be careful with some brands of this type of saddle - a friend having paid a lot for one of them and then having some issues and being told by the maker that she was using it for longer periods of time than she should have been (ie hours rather than under an hour ). Obviously it depends what you want it for.

Amerigo would be a better bet for choice, or sbloom's one of course ...

 

[onemoretime]

Have a look at the Andre Hicks saddles, the are lovely and have a good choice of trees and fittings.

 

[couerlie]

My dear C used to get similar bumps after riding. They were quite soft, very similar placement and size to yours and did not seem to bother him when I would touch them standing on the ground. They did not appear in places where the saddle touches his back (rather in adjacent areas, i.e. on the side of the spine and always in the same spots) and did not appear at all if he was exercised without the saddle or bareback. They always disappeared within 30-45 minutes of taking the saddle off.

I've had several equine vets look at those mysterious bumps and examine C's back, and I also had his whole back X-rayed, with no pathological changes detected. C did not show pain during the examination from the ground, but did show visible discomfort after about 30 minutes of ridden work - he would stretch out his head all the way to the ground, stop by the mounting block, touch my feet with his muzzle. I dismounted whenever he started behaving like that, and eventually decided for a 2 month rest.

In the end the veterinarians came to the conclusion that they must be some sort of pressure bumps caused by cutting off circulation to a part of the skin, which causes fluid buildup next to that area (their first idea was heat-provoked urticaria, but the bumps were not itchy). Thankfully, C does not get them anymore - I use a newly fitted treed dressage saddle with good spine clearance and fresh flocking, with a cotton numnah (summer) or a sheepskin/reindeerskin (winter) underneath.

I hope you find a good saddle for yourself and your horse, and that those mysterious bumps do not come back x

 

[MJN72]

Has the Stubben been giving you any problems? I'm wondering if the "new" saddles are highlighting a problem with the old one.

I would say be careful with some brands of this type of saddle - a friend having paid a lot for one of them and then having some issues and being told by the maker that she was using it for longer periods of time than she should have been (ie hours rather than under an hour ). Obviously it depends what you want it for.

Amerigo would be a better bet for choice, or sbloom's one of course ...

Every Stubben saddle I’ve tried slips slightly to the right. This doesn’t happen with the Childeric or Devoucoux. I also find Stubben very uncomfortable. Hence trying new saddles x

 

[CanteringCarrot]

For a forward balance saddle I quite like my Amerigo. As mentioned by SBloom they have a few configurations. My horse happened to get on well with one "off the shelf" so I didn't have to order one. Fits better than the 2 made to measure saddles I had previously ? part of this is due to the fitter(s), but I'm still satisfied with the saddle itself too.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Do these bumps go away after a while? Just wondering if they could be blocked pores if they don't disappear?

 

[MJN72]

Do these bumps go away after a while? Just wondering if they could be blocked pores if they don't disappear?

They go within about 30 minutes. They don’t come up in the other saddle I’ve been trying.. x

 

[Sossigpoker]

They go within about 30 minutes. They don’t come up in the other saddle I’ve been trying.. x

OK, thanks , won't be blocked pores then so I assume the saddle must be rubbing.

 

[Squeak]

A friends horse had exactly the same problem with Devoucoux and Voltaire saddles. She wasn’t sure what was causing it but as others have said it must have been linked to pressure or something.

I personally have had bad experiences of Devoucoux saddles damaging a back and wouldn’t use them again. Childerics were nice but didn’t wear as well as some of the others.

As other makes of saddle aren’t making the lumps I’d probably just steer clear of any that are.

 

[pistolpete]

Saddles can be such a minefield.

 

[MJN72]

Saddles can be such a minefield.

Aren’t they just!

 

[tallyho!]

Saddles can be such a minefield.

It's worth going through the pain and my only advice would be to find someone who is very interested in the motion, anatomy and development of the horse as well as selling saddles.

Years ago, I was always of the thought a saddle needed to fit the horse as it was presented to the master saddler, always ending up with problems. Then I researched and found someone who had an interest in the horse and showed me how a saddle should aid muscle development and that dip on either side of the whither is not normal for any horse. Sure enough with the saddle I subsequently tried, those dips were replaced by muscle. Which has left me with a nasty side-effect of wincing when I see those dips on horses... which is very very common.

 

[sbloom]

Every Stubben saddle I’ve tried slips slightly to the right. This doesn’t happen with the Childeric or Devoucoux. I also find Stubben very uncomfortable. Hence trying new saddles x

Saddles can stay in place for the wrong reasons, saddle slip can so often be from asymmetry of horse or rider. I find that if I can get the rider aligned then we can so often "de-rotate" the horse's ribcage, minimising saddle slip. Not a quick fix, even if you can achieve it in the arena on the day, long term conditioning required for horse and rider.

 

[tallyho!]

I'll add if I may... what I have learned from professionals about gullet width. Most off the pegs are WAY too narrow.

Sharing websites looks like promotion so I won't do that here... however, I think what sbloom has shared about balance saddles is important because they were an important maker who promoted development rather than "fit". I have put the word fit in inverted commas because it's a term that can be interpreted many ways - here, I would like to refer to it as a "fit" to what the horses' shape SHOULD be.

Remember that if you are researching saddles. It's something so simple, yet so important, if only I had known, I think two of my horses would have maintained a comfortable ridden career. Alas... I was ignorant. I'm hoping that by sharing this, I can pass on some sort of inspiration of what to look for. Using below as an example (Source: Google). This is not a good back but many will say it is and is normal. It really isn't so train your eye....



Now, the below isn't the best image but it's sad to google muscle developement and all you get is repetitions of the above... but it's better! I'm sure should you google saddlers or contact good ones here, you may find that you learn something about muscle. Please don't take this as some sort of lecture as I am no expert... I'm just a student and I hope you'll join me in my learning journey for the good of horses.

 

[YorkshireLady]

Agree re the Gullets and fit as well. so many say MW W saddle but the gullet will feel tight on my arm when I pick it up.

I know that french type saddles were made for a certain horse....BUT some of them will fit with wider and i mean lot wider gullet ( obv its made for you) which i think makes a diff for the non TB horse defo and prob some TB!

 

[sbloom]

Agree re the Gullets and fit as well. so many say MW W saddle but the gullet will feel tight on my arm when I pick it up.

I know that french type saddles were made for a certain horse....BUT some of them will fit with wider and i mean lot wider gullet ( obv its made for you) which i think makes a diff for the non TB horse defo and prob some TB!

A wider headplate doesn't change the shape of the tree, in fact, in some models of fitting the tree shape, and therefore the tree fit, around T10-13 is more important than having the perfect angled headplate at the front. Freedom of shoulder and postural movement comes from under the middle of the saddle...tree shape, not width. Taking these saddles really wide, or fitting them to wider backs that happen to not be so wide under the pommel, is always a compromise imo.

@tallyho! the Equitopia webinars on topline syndrome are well worth a month's membership (well, you may not learn much by watching them, but others who haven't learned what you have might! I found them useful).