Saddle for breaking youngster : recommendations please....

[Rudey]

Rox is 3 years old and currently standing at 15hh. I have decided I do not want to break him in until he is 4 years old (April next year). But I do want to tack break him this year, and possibly send him away for light backing at the end of summer/beginning of autum, then turn him away for winter.

I appreciate what may fit him now, will not necessarily fit him next year for breaking, but I want to ensure a decent fit, as I would like to long rein him fully tacked up. I would hate for him to spook, and an ill fitted saddle bang on his back, and upset him.

I had an old wintec from years ago which I thought would do just for tack breaking, but it does not sit on him right at all - even with changing the gullet. I have a Collegiate for Sammi, and I have sat that on his back, but it is not right either.

I have approached a saddler to look out for some saddles (she had come out to check Sammi's saddle, and whilst she was at it, changed the gullet of the Wintec).

I know it is going to be a trial and error type thing, with numerous saddles having to be tried on. I just wondered (hoped) others may have had similar experiences where a Wintec didn't suit their horses back but try a "..........." saddle (fill in the blank).

I will add, I am more inclined to buy a leather saddle, as I was once advised that leather saddles are more forgiving then synthetic, especially for fresh youngsters.

Has anyone got any suggestions please? If I posted photo's of my horses back shape, would that help? xx

 

[Rudey]

Bump.... anyone please? xx

 

[Foxhunter49]

I always use a felt saddle for them to start, it can do no harm and will fit anything! Light to throw on and very cheap even if you have one made.

One thing I will say is to always use a breast girth (not a breast plate) so not saddle can not slip back with a young horse.

 

[Happy Hunter]

Whatever it is - It needs to stay put - and potentially be rolled on, dragged down megage walls, through hedges, bucked in till the horse falls over and sqirmed about in.

(im not saying thats what your aiming for - but dont buy a leather albion for breaking!!! )

Felt saddles seem to be the choice of most.

 

[Rudey]

I always use a felt saddle for them to start, it can do no harm and will fit anything! Light to throw on and very cheap even if you have one made.

One thing I will say is to always use a breast girth (not a breast plate) so not saddle can not slip back with a young horse.

Thanks for the response. Hmmmm, a felt saddle would be logical to start him off with - especially bearing in mind the fit and how much his back may change. It will be great for getting him use to stirrups down by his sides and long reining in it.

I quickly just googled felt saddles to see what sort of thing was available, and I found a thread on another forum. One poster did not recommend adults riding on a felt saddle using stirrups due to the pressure it would put on a horses back. Perhaps I am being naive, but in a similar instance, I would have thought it would be just like a treeless saddle, save less padding?

Great point about the breast girth, admittedly, I wouldn't have automatically considered that. Better to prevent the saddle slipping back from the off, then risk it going back and hurting the horse/causing future saddle issues. xx

 

[Rudey]

Whatever it is - It needs to stay put - and potentially be rolled on, dragged down megage walls, through hedges, bucked in till the horse falls over and sqirmed about in.

(im not saying thats what your aiming for - but dont buy a leather albion for breaking!!! )

Felt saddles seem to be the choice of most.

LMAO Happy Hunter, your post made me giggle, but you are quite right! I have been searching Ebay in a frenzy, but I am reluctant to spend anything over a couple of hundred quid, as I literally want something for tack breaking and perhaps backing. I know by the time he is 4 and ready for breaking, he will be different shape, and I will have to buy something else! xx

 

[rubyrumba]

I have borrowed someones saddle that fits mine for now. She is very good though and has taken everything in her stride so she hasn't wrecked it, thank heavens!!

 

[Rudey]

I wouldn't dare borrow one with Rox : the little thug would trash it LOL! I have tried on a couple of my mates saddles on him, but nothing sits right. There's a few others up at our yard that have different makes of saddles, I plan asking them if I can try theirs on. xx

 

[kerilli]

i've never had a backer damage a saddle. maybe i've been lucky...
i found a Barrie Swain GP, serge lined, wide panels, soft-flocked with wool, on ebay. it is now my backing saddle and so far has fitted everything fine (checked by Master Saddler first), it's a pretty generic flat-treed "medium" fitting and is a total godsend. i'd look for something like that if i were you. (btw his have trees which can be adjusted a little back at the factory.)

 

[Rudey]

Thanks for the suggestion Kerilli. I saw a Swain saddle on ebay earlier, but admittedly I didn't take much notice as it wasn't a make I was familiar with. I will go have a gander to see if I can find it again. xx

 

[kerilli]

Thanks for the suggestion Kerilli. I saw a Swain saddle on ebay earlier, but admittedly I didn't take much notice as it wasn't a make I was familiar with. I will go have a gander to see if I can find it again. xx

they are designed to be very comfy for horse's backs. Barrie is a true Master saddler imho, not in it for the money as many are! highly recommended. if you post a question about them in CR quite a few other people will recommend them too. if you want me to have a quick look at any you find, pm me... i know them quite well, currently have 5 of his in my tackroom!

 

[Rudey]

Thank you very much, that's very kind of you. I will definitely take you up on the offer. It's very much appreciated! xx

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

you only break them once so make it good and comfortable. the saddle might not fit next year or even in 6 months but it it is a nice saddle you wont lose. get the saddle fitted and go from there.

 

[Rudey]

An excellent point of view, thanks for your input Ofcourseyou can. My little man is such a sweetheart, I would hate to do something that could potentially ruin him. Making do will just not do. xx

 

[CBFan]

I think for the purpose of getting him used to having a saddle on his back, I am going to go against the grain and say 'almost anything will do' until there is any weight in the saddle a slightly ill fitting one is going to do little harm. Especially if it is well padded with a decent saddle cloth and or riser if necessary. Obviously you want to try and get the best fit possible but if you have the option of using one you already have which isn't too far out, I would go with that...

It is going to be near on impossible to fit a saddle to him propperly without him being ridden so I'm not sure how you would get to that stage without using a 'make do' saddle. we are only talking a matter of a few weeks after all.

I did this with my boy and it has had no ill effect whatsoever. And I have just had a new saddle fitted to him (a Kent and masters hi wither GP) which is adjustible so that it can change as he changes shape. I don't intend to keep this saddle long term but while he is still growing it serves a purpose. We tried about 6 saddles on him before I rode in them (and some more) until we found the best fit for him and me. I obviously couldn't have done this if he hadn't had a saddle on his back before!

 

[kerilli]

sorry, but i disagree. if the tree is too narrow then the points might dig in when it is girthed up firmly (and nobody wants a loose girth on a young horse, if s/he goes loopy the saddle moving is a disaster), and if it's too wide then it might press on the withers (i've sat on 2 horses now, once when judging, once when teaching, where the rider said 'the saddle's fine' but the front of the pommel was pressing down hard on the withers, i couldn't get anything underneath it.) i refused to ride both... would rather go bareback, tbh.
i think you can see very adequately whether a saddle fits a horse decently without a rider on. is there a clear gap along the gullet? 3-4 fingers' width at front (allows for a bit of squish down with rider on). no bridging of panels? even pressure on panels from front to back when you run your hand flat along it (ungirthed). saddle evenly balanced? (golf ball test is useful!) pulling down in front and floating off the back at the back?
a young horse's back is virgin territory. it's first saddle should be comfortable... maybe not perfect, but definitely not anything that might cause a pressure point anywhere, imho. otherwise, you're better with a couple of polypads and a surcingle. (and yes, i've done that too!)

 

[CBFan]

sorry, but i disagree. if the tree is too narrow then the points might dig in when it is girthed up firmly (and nobody wants a loose girth on a young horse, if s/he goes loopy the saddle moving is a disaster), and if it's too wide then it might press on the withers (i've sat on 2 horses now, once when judging, once when teaching, where the rider said 'the saddle's fine' but the front of the pommel was pressing down hard on the withers, i couldn't get anything underneath it.) i refused to ride both... would rather go bareback, tbh.
i think you can see very adequately whether a saddle fits a horse decently without a rider on. is there a clear gap along the gullet? 3-4 fingers' width at front (allows for a bit of squish down with rider on). no bridging of panels? even pressure on panels from front to back when you run your hand flat along it (ungirthed). saddle evenly balanced? (golf ball test is useful!) pulling down in front and floating off the back at the back?
a young horse's back is virgin territory. it's first saddle should be comfortable... maybe not perfect, but definitely not anything that might cause a pressure point anywhere, imho. otherwise, you're better with a couple of polypads and a surcingle. (and yes, i've done that too!)

I'm definately in agreement with you and would NEVER sugest using a saddle that was very obviously a very poor fit. but there is a slight grey area in between which I would use in a 'making do' situation.... thats the point that I was trying to make... the first saddle I used for my boy was a 17.5 inch wide fit... I've ridden in it for a couple of months... offered excellent wither clearance but unfortunately the back tips up... it's too wide but also my boy has a large front to back differential meaning that he needs a saddle with a very high gusset at the back. something that only the Kent and masters seemed to offer within my price range (we tried several brands of second hand saddle and there was always a problem with the saddle sitting flat on his back) he is also in a Medium wide gullet. I have had two saddlers to him who agreed that I made the best choice re the original saddle and they wouldn't have done any different in terms of making it fit and that to ask a horse any greener to go through a fitting session (riding in each saddle etc) would have been a real test of patience!! plus out of 10 saddles ridden in (that looked fine from the ground) only one was 'perfect'...

To ride in the saddles that you've described above would be pure stupidity. There's poor fit at theres poor fit. A saddle with NO wither clearance is most DEFINATELY a poor fit. even a numpty should know that... shouldn't they??

 

[minigal]

In the same situation - have just bought a Saddle Company Saddle off ebay for £275 - hopefully this will be a good solution as they are apparently fully adjustable - well more so than just changing a gullet anyway. I shall see! It's about £40 to have it adjusted.

 

[native eventer]

Hello. I have had lots and lots of problems with saddles with a newly backed horse.. am on my 3rd. And my horse loves the owen panel nick dolam one I bought 2nd hand (similiar to Barrie Swain) Heres the website for 2nd hand specialist saddles they seem to fit very well and after all my problems I would definitley recommend. Plus please get a saddle that fits reasonably well from the start from my experiences its very important from the start that the horse learns a saddle is comfortable.

http://www.specialistsaddles.co.uk

 

[Rudey]

they are designed to be very comfy for horse's backs. Barrie is a true Master saddler imho, not in it for the money as many are! highly recommended. if you post a question about them in CR quite a few other people will recommend them too. if you want me to have a quick look at any you find, pm me... i know them quite well, currently have 5 of his in my tackroom!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Swain-Havana-...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item2565d29d08

Kerilli, I found this ^^saddle^^ tonight on ebay, and I immediately thought of you! Judging by the photo on the right, I don't think it will suit Rox's back, as I imagine the pommel will sit miles off his back, as although it states it is a wide fitting, the gullet area does look too narrow.

I only say this as I tried a 17" wide Frank Bains saddle on today which did this. I could fit four fingers from his back under the pommel, and still be around an inch from touching the saddle! So bearing this in mind, do you think a Swain would be suitable for my little fatty?

I had a gander at the Bates 'Wide range', and googled it, I went off track slightly, and I found a thread on here about the 'normal' Bates saddles, and everyone commented they were suited mainly towards narrow horses. For flat back native types, Pessoa and Ideal saddles were recommended. xx

 

[Rudey]

In the same situation - have just bought a Saddle Company Saddle off ebay for £275 - hopefully this will be a good solution as they are apparently fully adjustable - well more so than just changing a gullet anyway. I shall see! It's about £40 to have it adjusted.

Have you got your saddle and tried it yet? Any good? What sort of back has your horse got? Is he quite flat? xx

 

[Rudey]

Hello. I have had lots and lots of problems with saddles with a newly backed horse.. am on my 3rd. And my horse loves the owen panel nick dolam one I bought 2nd hand (similiar to Barrie Swain) Heres the website for 2nd hand specialist saddles they seem to fit very well and after all my problems I would definitley recommend. Plus please get a saddle that fits reasonably well from the start from my experiences its very important from the start that the horse learns a saddle is comfortable.

http://www.specialistsaddles.co.uk

Thank you very much for the link, I will have a gander. This finding saddles thing isn't going to be as straight forward as I thought. My last saddle I bought for my other horse, I only had to try on three saddles, and I found the one.

So far with Rox he has had 5 different saddles on, and none of them were remotely any good! xx

 

[Miss L Toe]

I back my youngsters bareback, well a roller and a hessian sack tbh.
I have a driving harness so they get that on at the earliest opportunity, with crupper, they have a bit of a buck but as they are used to lots of my daft ideas, the novelty soon wears off. I just walk them around the yard with a saddle on, and that is no big deal.

 

[kerilli]

Rudey, that one on ebay does look like a typical Barrie saddle.
is your lad wide-ish fitting? i'd take a template of him and send it to the seller, he offers to check it against saddles, a v nice thing to do. (if you're faxing it or scanning it in, do so with a ruler beside it or with cms marked on the paper, because fax machines in particular stretch the image and make your template wrong...!
don't forget that Barrie can adjust trees slightly, about 1/2 a width fitting or maybe a bit more, i have contact numbers and address if you do get the saddle and need them.
otherwise, the suggestion of SC saddles is a good one, must admit i haven't been at all impressed by the quality of the ones i've seen but at least they're cheap!

 

[Rudey]

I back my youngsters bareback, well a roller and a hessian sack tbh.
I have a driving harness so they get that on at the earliest opportunity, with crupper, they have a bit of a buck but as they are used to lots of my daft ideas, the novelty soon wears off. I just walk them around the yard with a saddle on, and that is no big deal.

A fair point, admittedly it would be something I would consider for literally backing sake. I guess if I cannot find anything suitable, I will have no option to do this for this year just to back, and hopefully get something for when he has turned 4 years next year. xx

 

[Rudey]

Rudey, that one on ebay does look like a typical Barrie saddle.
is your lad wide-ish fitting? i'd take a template of him and send it to the seller, he offers to check it against saddles, a v nice thing to do. (if you're faxing it or scanning it in, do so with a ruler beside it or with cms marked on the paper, because fax machines in particular stretch the image and make your template wrong...!
don't forget that Barrie can adjust trees slightly, about 1/2 a width fitting or maybe a bit more, i have contact numbers and address if you do get the saddle and need them.
otherwise, the suggestion of SC saddles is a good one, must admit i haven't been at all impressed by the quality of the ones i've seen but at least they're cheap!

Thanks for taking a look Kerilli. What a kind person to offer to check a template against the saddle for potential buyers. That is something, and definitely someone to bear in mind. I will crack on, and do a template tomorrow. Even if the Swain is not suitable, he might have something else!

Rox is a French TB cross Traditional, and although he carries alot of the TB traits looks and bone wise, he does have a table back , but with some wither.

Initially I tried on my 17" medium/narrow Collegiate, and it stood off his back by miles. Then a 16.5" medium Kes - the same. The Wintec we put a wide gullet in and it did not suit his back. I tried a friends newer model of Wintec, and again no good. Then the last one was a Frank Bains wide saddle, which again was no good.

It would appear he needs a wider fit - but I am conscious that it may depend on the tree/gullet fit/type, so I thought about looking towards saddles more suitable for native types. Will have to see what the Ebay chap thinks! xx