Saddle help needed! have i damaged her back? *pic*

[charleysummer]

I hadn't noticed this until her white winter coat had shed out, or i would have done something sooner.
But i've always had a feeling that her saddle didnt fit right and after buying my wintec i had many people commenting how poorly they fit a lot of horses, she has had this saddle for two years but she has changed shape quite a alot since being an undermuscled, skinny 5 year old...
anyway getting to the point here is the picture...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=426&pictureid=2340

as you can see the hair has gone white in a couple of places and when i've ridden this areas are always really really rubbed and the fur is ruffled alot, she has started putting her ears back into canter aswell.
So do you think i've done any damage?
And please reccomend a new saddle- i really don't want to spend my money on something rubbish again.

 

[Jazzelle29]

Looks like the saddle is too narrow and has caused some muscle atrophy and loss of blood supply to the affected areas-hence the white hairs.

I have a few saddle ideas-you are welcome to pm me.

 

[teddyt]

The white hairs are caused by excess pressure- the pressure reduces the blood flow to the skin and muscles and in more severe cases the pigmented cells are killed and the hair grows back white. If you rode for several hours a day the areas would be open sores (like bed sores in people) but because the saddle (and hence pressure) is usually removed after 1-2 hours, blood gets back into the muscles before the tissues totally breakdown. You therefore cant see the damage that is being done but after a while the white hairs show.

From the photo it looks like quite a large area. Wintecs sit up at the back on a lot of horses, so putting more pressure at the front of the saddle. This combined with a possibility that the gullet was too narrow means that excess pressure has been at the front of the saddle. The excess hair ruffling indicates alot of movement so the saddle has probably been rocking, which again creates more pressure.

TBH you are lucky that all you have had is her ears back.

IMO you shouldnt use your saddle at all. Phone your local saddle fitters and discuss with them what they have and what might suit your horse. Then select who you feel happy with and try several saddles.

In the meantime i would suggest lots of grooming and hand massage to get blood into the muscles. It may be permanent damage but it would be beneficial to the horse anyway.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Sorry but have you not had the saddle checked by a saddler since she was 5? I have mine checked every six months. It's a little unfair to blame all wintec saddles if the saddle does not fit and you have not had it checked!

 

[charleysummer]

thankyou for your replies.
Well i didnt really know you had to- she's my first pony and with my previous loan i generally went on the adivce of the owners and the people around me and i've never been told to have my saddle checked etc, so i suppose it never crossed my mind =/

I'm going to the tack shop today to look at saddles but i'm just wary of buying another saddle that is not going to be up to much- so any reccomendations before i go today would be great.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Quote:- " I'm going to the tack shop today to look at saddles but i'm just wary of buying another saddle that is not going to be up to much"

Don't just go to the saddlery like you'd go to the local shops & buy a saddle, you need to speak to the saddler & arrange for him to visit. He/she should bring out a range of saddles & try various ones on your horse to find one that a) fits & b) is suitable for your horse. Not all makes of saddle are suitable for every horse. Don't set your heart on a particular make as yhat may not suit your horse. We have a couple of show jumpers & they each have a different make of saddle because they fitted & suited the horse better. If you just go & buy a saddle you will probably end up with another which doesn't fit. It's a skilled job to fit a saddle so you need to use a professional.

Good Luck

 

[charleysummer]

yes i was going to go today just to have a look at the types and see if there are any good saddle fitters local, (leicestershire/warwickshire- if anybody has any reccomendations). unfortunatly the saddle fitter we had last time didnt really bother with the finer details (little did i know) and a couple of people i know have experienced them sticking on a saddle and sending you off without really checking it at all.

anybody know of any good saddle fitters around this area?

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Does the saddlery you are going to not have someone qualified to fit saddles?

 

[charleysummer]

yes they do but as i said, i know people who have had a few problems with the person who fitted them, and i think my saddle never really fitted correctly after the first time as it moved and a saddle fitter had to pad out some of it underneath when we first got it- a person i know had to get 3 different saddles until they got one which actually fitted and when i went last time it was literally stick the saddle on, (didnt really look it over at all) and just watched me ride in it which i thought wasnt really achieving much.. unless because it wasn't an overly expensive saddle they didnt bother much i dont know...

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

You may find someone in your area listed on this site.
http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/

 

[kerilli]

crikey, i have never seen such a large area of white hairs in the saddle area. Please, for your horse's sake, get a really good highly recommended saddle fitter out. in the meantime, ride bareback!

 

[Steeleydan]

Andy from Milners is a good saddle fitter, they are Leicestershire.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I would recommend Milners too.

Just to let you know - I had a saddler straight out the very first day I got my TB two years ago who fitted a saddle to him and, as she was a qualified saddle fitter, I went with what she said.

After 3 months horse had exactly the same huge white marks as yours in the hollows of his withers which I was horrified by. I went through a long process of getting a saddle that fitted properly and getting him right. The white patches have completely gone now which is good but I felt awful about him being in pain. He never complains so if the white patches hadn't come, I would have thought everything was ok. I am not a novice horse owner and have had horses since about the age of 10.

I now have my saddles checked every 3 months to be on the safe side.

Best thing you can do is get a good saddler to come and sort you out and keep in touch with them. Just because they've fitted a saddle doesn't mean its going to fit 100% for the next 10 years. Horses change shape and so need saddles checking.

Fingers crossed you get it sorted and please put this one down to experience. You won't do it again!!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Ditto re. message above re. "going to the tack shop". Ummm, you can't just buy something "off the peg" as it were, and hope it fits!!!

What I suggest you do is to get an equine physiotherapist out to look at your horse's back; that's your first step - then you need to work with him/her to sort out your own posture!! Coz if you're out of kilter (almost all of us have some degree of spinal curvature) then so will your horse be, so get a good physio (ask around at tack shops, horsey friends etc). THEN you need to get a good saddler (look at the Master Saddlers list and they'll give you someone in your area - BUT make sure they're a "saddle fitter" not just a "saddler" coz the two are very different), and get them to fix you up.

It may be that you need, for now anyway, to get one of the gel pads, just to use while your horse's back gets better.

I have known about two situations where a synthetic/adjustable saddle caused damage to a horse's back - I don't think the saddle is necessarily to blame, its more the sort of culture that suggests that "one fits all", and all you have to do is adjust the gullet and hey presto, sorted. But it doesn't work like that, it could be the saddle is too long, or the tree is "bowing" and not fitting the horse, or its slipping. You really need to have the saddle checked at least twice a year, whatever saddle you use, coz the horse's shape will change due to work, feeding, fitness etc. And don't believe anyone who says that the horse's shape won't change coz it does!

 

[charleysummer]

i am going to milners
just checked and i have enough money to buy a decent saddle, and dont worry that saddle is never touching her back again! i have been riding bareback since i have seen the hairs (never realised how much balance i had). thankyou again, i just feel bad for letting it happen- especially as i ride her quite alot i just never saw it on her white buckskin winter coat

and yes she has changed shape a lot i beleive,
i will get a gel pad aswell then to help her back. i'm sure i will notice a significant improvement in her way of going after i've gotten her a properly fitted saddle.
I've been riding a bit bareback for the last couple of days and also just massaging the area and giving her a break, will it be ok to start riding her again or will she be too sore?

 

[Booboos]

I think the best thing to do is to get the vet out to check her back. He should be able to advise you on a decent physio in your area. Ideally you need the physio to check the horse every six months.

Once her current problems are resolved you need a decent saddle fitter, BUT given the loss of muscle you may well find that you need one saddle now and to have her completely re-fitted in the next three months or thereabouts.


Best of luck

 

[CBFan]

I agree... you need a new saddle - HATE HATE HATE wintecs. get one properly fitted and if you get one with tradiotional flocking rather than cair or whatever, you can get the flocking adjusted as your horse changes shape. I personally really like 'fieldhouse' saddles - I have a pro-event one which is just a slightly more forward cut GP and it is traditionally floocked (not all of the fieldhouse ones are). They're at the cheaper end of the leather saddle market but they are nice saddles IMO...

I would highly recomend you get a chiropractor or physio out to give her the once over and personally wouldn't be riding her at all until you have...

 

[charleysummer]

saddle fitter is coming tomorrow and will have a new leather saddle by the end of the day!
so what would they do? just check over the muscle etc and see if shes in pain?

 

[Booboos]

The saddle fitter cannot tell you if the horse is in pain and they should not try as they are not qualified!

You need a vet to assess the extent of the problem (if there is one) and advise you if the horse needs time off, pain-killers, etc. Vets work with reputable physios, and will refer you to a physio if they feel one is needed. Regular physio check-ups (when this problem is resolved) are a really, really good idea. Physios/chiros are not legally allowed to see a horse without a vet referal (unless the horse is already under the care of the vet and this is a routine visit with the vet's knowledge - but this is not the case here).

The saddle fitter should be able to find the right saddle for your horse (saddles come in different styles and sizes). A good saddle fitter should try a number of saddles on the horse stood square, he should see you ride with as many saddle as necessary to make the right choice and should take a template on the horse's back as a record of when the saddle was fitted. He/she should offer to come back and re-check a new saddle after 3-6 months to adjust it for bedding in. You should then get the saddle re-checked regularly (every 6 months) and every time the horse loses/puts on weight, develops/loses muscle, etc. Many saddles nowadays come with adjustable trees. This may be a very good option for you, as your horse is likely to change shape dramatically as he becomes pain free and starts working properly.

 

[charleysummer]

I will certainly look into having her back checked, i have bought her a Crosby Softride saddle and she seems to go so much better, working in a correct shape without rushing- huge improvement! i will be getting it checked again within a few months- whilst i was riding in the wintec i also lunged regulary in an 'EquiAmi' to build her topline and back muscles, should this have helped develop her back muscles?

 

[OneInAMillion]

it does also look like your numnah may have a lump in it as well affecting how the girth sits

 

[CBFan]

as with any gadgets, lunging aids are only as effective as the hands using them so whether the Equi-ami built up her back muscles depends a lot on how it was used...

 

[Sarah Sum1]

That 'feeling' you had that the saddle didn't fit correctly is your gut instinct, try to remember in future not to ignore it, if something is nniggling away at you it usually means you should take notice I habe only just learnt this one myself Best of luck.

 

[Smurphy]

can you not just get your wintec saddle adjusted so it fits, im assuming it has the interchangable gullets.

 

[Tempi]

Your horse should have its saddle checked a minimum of every 6 months, you should also have its back checked by a physio again a minimum of every 6months. Im sure someone on here can recommend a good physio and saddler for you.

How often do you get your horses teeth done? As this should also be done every 6 months in younger horses (up to 8 years old) and annually after that.

Ive never seen a horse with such bad saddle marks.....

 

[Booboos]

OP, have you had a chance to get a vet or at least a physio to check over your horse? Even if the new saddle now fits there may well be a lot of residual pain and your horse will need help to get over that. Working her through the pain may cause more physical and behavioural problems.

 

[charleysummer]

i haven't got her back looked at yet, i really don't know who to ask, can anybody reccomend me somebody please? in the leicestershire/warwickshire area, what will they do when they come? how can they help her? =] thankyou for all your help

 

[Luci07]

You will need to go via your vet first as no physio will treat your horse until they have been referred by your vet. Once this has been done, then you can continue with the check up's without going back to the vet each time.

But just so you don't get too much of a financial shock (as you have just paid out for a new saddle) - you need to take into account your vets call out and as a guideline - my physio costs me £70 when he treats my horse and that is with a split visit. My horse isn't really changing a lot now (he is 9) and his work stays pretty constant, neither is one to be idiotic in the field, but invariably my backman needs to sort out some bits and pieces on his visits!

and just to say I think you have handled this very well (and acted quickly). Everyone makes mistakes with their horses which we look back at later and think "what the..?", so I think some people may have been a little harsh! it does take courage to come onto this forum and ask for advice when you are at fault!

 

[ilovecobs]

those hairs might not stay like that forever, my horse had pure white in a section at the front *id say 5 inch diameter* and ever larger patch near the back, this was from a horrifically fitting saddle, and over winter they can back for 2 years and went in summer and then after that they never came back and his was really bad i felt awful for him!

Having said that some horses with that have it and it doesnt go, yours doesnt look too obvious though