Saddle issues - what to do?

[Annagain]

I've had two lessons over the last week (Wig was just lush in both but moot point) with different instructors. Both instructors said I needed to get my saddle checked as it was bouncing up and down at the back. I had the saddle fitter out 3 weeks ago.

Wiggy arrived with an Albion saddle and I also had my old trusty Ideal that he looked at too. He said the Ideal was the best fit but needed a few adjustments so I paid £160 for him to make those. Before that, I'd been carrying on with the saddle he came with and while I could see he'd changed shape a bit since arriving (lost a bit of weight and seemed a bit narrower all over) I didn't think it was terrible on him. Saddle fitter said it was totally the wrong shape and to get rid (luckily my procrastination skills have paid off here as I still have it).

Obviously the saddle(s) will be checked again. The issue I have is my saddle fitter has retired so I can't get him back out. I was literally his last appointment before he signed off and he and his wife were about to embark on a year-long trip round the UK on their canal barge. I don't know if they've left yet or not. I've used him for the best part of 20 years and never had an issue before so I don't know if he was bit demob happy or if Wiggy's a tricky one or he's changed shape again (in 3 weeks?) but it's just my luck to have my first issue as he's retiring! I'm not sure he would (or even could at the moment) come back again if he's retired or if he'd stand by his work and come to have another look.

He saw me ride in it, I said I felt like it was flinging me forwards to he adjusted it again and it felt a lot better although it seemed harder to keep my legs still in it (compared to both the Albion on Wiggy and the Ideal on Arch and Charlie) but I put that down to having got used to the Albion and the stirrup bars maybe being in a different position. A few weeks on, it feels better but still not great.

The other issue is my Ideal saddle is flocked with Flair and I don't think many other saddle fitters deal with it these days so if I have to use someone else and they say that saddle would be best, it's likely to need a full re-flock. Obviously Wiggy will get whatever he needs and deserves but it's money I could really do without spending at the moment and I feel like I've already spent a lot to try to get this right.

I'm thinking maybe I should at least ask him and hope that if he says no, he'd at least offer some money back? What do you think? What if he doesn't? Should I push it?

 

[Lady Jane]

Tricky. I would ask him and see what he says. He can only say no - and horses can change shape very quickly especially if they are losing summer weight and putting on muscle. You obviously need a new saddle fitter and I bet everyone will recommend someone different, even if you lived in the same area. £160 is alot to adjust a saddle? Mine charges £40 for quite radical reflocking - but I'm sure his price will go up soon as it hasn't gone up as long as I have been using him. New girth straps and repairs are extra. None of the fitters like the Flair system (they can't do much with them to help a saddle fit) and if a saddler thinks that saddle could be a good fit flocked, and you like the saddle that may be a good option. Albion & Ideal are both good saddles but their models vary alot in terms of fit. When I got my new horse I had 8 saddles to try and show my saddler (some were mine or my friends and some borrowed from my local tack shop). None of them fitted and he explained why. He recommended a specific model of Albion he said would fit, I got one second hand and he reflocked, its worked for me. He doesn't buy/sell saddles so has no reason to say I needed a new saddle

 

[HelenBack]

That sounds complicated. I think it's worth at least getting in touch and telling him you're struggling. If he is well and truly gone and can't come out to see you then I tihnk he should at least give you a name of somebody he recommends for you to use now.

Not sure who you've been using but I can give you names of other saddlers in the area if that would be helpful, although I suspect you probably know them all already. I ended up with a Wow for my horse and obviously they're Flair so my Wow saddler might look at that for you but she will freely admit she isn't qualified to fit non-Wow saddles so not sure that would work either.

Sorry, I feel like I've just commented in a completely non-helpful way!

 

[Annagain]

Tricky. I would ask him and see what he says. He can only say no - and horses can change shape very quickly especially if they are losing summer weight and putting on muscle. You obviously need a new saddle fitter and I bet everyone will recommend someone different, even if you lived in the same area. £160 is alot to adjust a saddle? Mine charges £40 for quite radical reflocking - but I'm sure his price will go up soon as it hasn't gone up as long as I have been using him. New girth straps and repairs are extra. None of the fitters like the Flair system (they can't do much with them to help a saddle fit) and if a saddler thinks that saddle could be a good fit flocked, and you like the saddle that may be a good option. Albion & Ideal are both good saddles but their models vary alot in terms of fit. When I got my new horse I had 8 saddles to try and show my saddler (some were mine or my friends and some borrowed from my local tack shop). None of them fitted and he explained why. He recommended a specific model of Albion he said would fit, I got one second hand and he reflocked, its worked for me. He doesn't buy/sell saddles so has no reason to say I needed a new saddle

The £160 included the call out and the fitting consultation which I think accounted for about £90 of the cost. I don't have the invoice in front of me.

 

[Annagain]

That sounds complicated. I think it's worth at least getting in touch and telling him you're struggling. If he is well and truly gone and can't come out to see you then I tihnk he should at least give you a name of somebody he recommends for you to use now.

Not sure who you've been using but I can give you names of other saddlers in the area if that would be helpful, although I suspect you probably know them all already. I ended up with a Wow for my horse and obviously they're Flair so my Wow saddler might look at that for you but she will freely admit she isn't qualified to fit non-Wow saddles so not sure that would work either.

Sorry, I feel like I've just commented in a completely non-helpful way!

Very little that happens to me is straightforward!

Your reply was very helpful, if nothing else, it's handy to have someone back up my thinking! Yes I know most in the area and I'm struggling because the one I used was the only one I've really trusted. There does seem to be a lack of decent fitters in this area. I wouldn't trust our most local one as far as I could throw him from personal experience and many stories I've heard.

My saddle fitter has recommended someone to me for the future, I just wasn't expecting to have to use her so soon. I'm not sure who the Wow saddle fitter is (having never had one!) so that name would be handy even if it's just to ask the question.

 

[sbloom]

Some saddle fitters like Flair. All you can do is ask him, and if he can't come out have someone else look. We fitters do often look at things differently to each other, just as in other professions, so you won't always get the same answer from more than one fitter. Lifting at the back can come from all sorts of things - too wide in the tree angle, too wide in the pommel, wrong tree shape (usually too narrow a twist), not enough flocking in the front (or air), saddle in the wrong place, horse's posture dropping more in front, girthing on the wrong straps...

If you let us know where you are then we can help with fitter suggestions.

 

[HelenBack]

Very little that happens to me is straightforward!

Your reply was very helpful, if nothing else, it's handy to have someone back up my thinking! Yes I know most in the area and I'm struggling because the one I used was the only one I've really trusted. There does seem to be a lack of decent fitters in this area. I wouldn't trust our most local one as far as I could throw him from personal experience and many stories I've heard.

My saddle fitter has recommended someone to me for the future, I just wasn't expecting to have to use her so soon. I'm not sure who the Wow saddle fitter is (having never had one!) so that name would be handy even if it's just to ask the question.

Ha ha, yes I agree with you exactly about the lack of decent fitters and probably agree with you on the local one! One of the reasons I ended up with a Wow really and for my new horse I've just bought a Thorowgood and am doing it myself for the time being.

The local Wow fitter is called Anneliese Lewis. She's based in Chepstow and I think is vaguely affiliated with Ride and Stride over there. I can PM you new number if you like. She's very nice and I think would try and come up with a helpful suggestion even if she can't help you herself. And I do really like Wow saddles for adjustability and suitability for more tricky horses but that doesn't really sit very well with your desire to not spend loads of money!

 

[Annagain]

Some saddle fitters like Flair. All you can do is ask him, and if he can't come out have someone else look. We fitters do often look at things differently to each other, just as in other professions, so you won't always get the same answer from more than one fitter. Lifting at the back can come from all sorts of things - too wide in the tree angle, too wide in the pommel, wrong tree shape (usually too narrow a twist), not enough flocking in the front (or air), saddle in the wrong place, horse's posture dropping more in front, girthing on the wrong straps...

If you let us know where you are then we can help with fitter suggestions.

Thanks - I'm in S.Wales, not far from Cardiff.

The Ideal is narrower than the Albion - saddle fitter said the Albion was too wide on him but nobody mentioned any glaring issues with it but now two people in less than a week mentioned the Ideal not sitting correctly. He put more air in the front when I said it was pushing me forwards so (while I appreciate it could still be the case) I think that's unlikely. He's on the 1st and 3rd girth straps which is what saddle fitter recommended. I think this makes the wrong tree shape seem the most likely?

When you say horse's posture dropping more in front, what do you mean?

 

[Annagain]

Ha ha, yes I agree with you exactly about the lack of decent fitters and probably agree with you on the local one! One of the reasons I ended up with a Wow really and for my new horse I've just bought a Thorowgood and am doing it myself for the time being.

The local Wow fitter is called Anneliese Lewis. She's based in Chepstow and I think is vaguely affiliated with Ride and Stride over there. I can PM you new number if you like. She's very nice and I think would try and come up with a helpful suggestion even if she can't help you herself. And I do really like Wow saddles for adjustability and suitability for more tricky horses but that doesn't really sit very well with your desire to not spend loads of money!

Ah yes, I've heard the name. Thanks. Ride and Stride are supposed to be good too although I'm not sure if they come to this area as they have enough customers closer to home.

 

[sbloom]

Thanks - I'm in S.Wales, not far from Cardiff.

The Ideal is narrower than the Albion - saddle fitter said the Albion was too wide on him but nobody mentioned any glaring issues with it but now two people in less than a week mentioned the Ideal not sitting correctly. He put more air in the front when I said it was pushing me forwards so (while I appreciate it could still be the case) I think that's unlikely. He's on the 1st and 3rd girth straps which is what saddle fitter recommended. I think this makes the wrong tree shape seem the most likely?

When you say horse's posture dropping more in front, what do you mean?

Posture - you can have a small thing go wrong, unrelated to the saddle, and the horse gets lower in front. Incredibly common, we're not used to looking at our horses in those terms.

Air doesn't suit all horses, if he needs a super stable fit then it won't help, and using the point strap will be making this worse, try girthing in the middle or further towards the back, if you have a choice. A thicker pad may help, proceed with caution.

 

[Annagain]

Posture - you can have a small thing go wrong, unrelated to the saddle, and the horse gets lower in front. Incredibly common, we're not used to looking at our horses in those terms.

Air doesn't suit all horses, if he needs a super stable fit then it won't help, and using the point strap will be making this worse, try girthing in the middle or further towards the back, if you have a choice. A thicker pad may help, proceed with caution.

Thanks - he did change shape a bit when he arrived. Lots more riding and a lack of grass over the late part of summer meant he dropped some weight (he needed to lose a bit and isn't skinny by any length of imagination) and a touch of top line, but I'd say it's been pretty stable this last 2 months (top line has improved slightly I'd say) and certainly doesn't seem to have changed since the saddle fitting.

So girth on the back two straps? I have a thicker pad I can use for now. Or maybe go back to the other saddle? It didn't bounce but saddle fitter said it was too wide on him. Which would be the lesser of two evils?

 

[Dexter]

I love Flair and its relatively easy to adjust yourself, but you would need to know the saddle is a good basic fit before thats an option.

 

[Tarragon]

Just wanted to say it was good to hear that two different trainers both independently commented on the saddle fit as part of their lesson and both made the same comment. Good because they are obviously looking at the whole picture and were prepared to say so, and good because their corroboration supports the issue, if you know what I mean

 

[Annagain]

Just wanted to say it was good to hear that two different trainers both independently commented on the saddle fit as part of their lesson and both made the same comment. Good because they are obviously looking at the whole picture and were prepared to say so, and good because their corroboration supports the issue, if you know what I mean

I agree - I think they both know me well enough to know I'll take it in the spirit it was intended (with Wiggy's welfare in mind) too. That's always my number 1 priority.

 

[sbloom]

So girth on the back two straps? I have a thicker pad I can use for now. Or maybe go back to the other saddle? It didn't bounce but saddle fitter said it was too wide on him. Which would be the lesser of two evils?

There is no answer without seeing what's going on - if the saddle is low in front then a thicker pad will help, if it's in balance then it won't and could make things worse. Girthing on the back straps may help but it may pull the saddle forwards. And can't possibly comment on which is better, sorry!

Horses can change just a couple of mm and it can, over a few weeks, affect a saddle a ton - it rides slightly low in front, more weight on the front, it compresses the flocking even more and the horse can be losing more muscle the entire time. It really is a good idea to know how your own saddle should look (stand back, take a photo of it girthed up including the whole horse) and feel (get your fitter to show you how to check clearance panel contact) so that you can nip any issues in the bud. Horses change shape during the day, let alone from one month to the next.

 

[Annagain]

There is no answer without seeing what's going on - if the saddle is low in front then a thicker pad will help, if it's in balance then it won't and could make things worse. Girthing on the back straps may help but it may pull the saddle forwards. And can't possibly comment on which is better, sorry!

Horses can change just a couple of mm and it can, over a few weeks, affect a saddle a ton - it rides slightly low in front, more weight on the front, it compresses the flocking even more and the horse can be losing more muscle the entire time. It really is a good idea to know how your own saddle should look (stand back, take a photo of it girthed up including the whole horse) and feel (get your fitter to show you how to check clearance panel contact) so that you can nip any issues in the bud. Horses change shape during the day, let alone from one month to the next.

No probs, I know it's hard without seeing it in the flesh. To me, it does't look a bad fit. My saddler always showed me what he was doing and explained why and got me to feel the fit too (part of the reason I trusted him - he would show me WHY it was a good fit rather than just telling me it was). It doesn't look like much, if anything has changed but obviously something has or it was never quite right in the first place (so what I see and think is good, isn't). It's definitely not low in front. I've contacted both my saddler and the person he recommended so I'll see what either of them says. Thanks.