Saddle on long, high withers?

[Levilevi49]

Hello!
I recently got an ex-racehorse. The saddeler can't come out now because of holiday season so I decided I'm going to step in to the saddle djungel alone (till the saddeler can come out) Instant regret.

The horse has high and long withers and I don't really know what to try first. I tried a bates and a wintec saddle from a lad in the stable but they fit awful and lies on the wither, especially on the long part of the wither.

I've read that the thorowgood high wither models, passier and kieffer are a common choice for Thoroughbreds, but what modells? Thorowgood high wither models are almost impossible to get your hands on in my country and I'd prefer to not have it shipped from another country.
I can for example get my hands on a keiffer Norbert koof springsattel, keiffer donau or keiffer Aachen. All second hand since I can't spend a fortune on a saddle right now.

I know all horses comes in different shapes and sizes but I'd love to put some meat on my bones before a professional comes out!

I'll try to post a picture of his back! He also got those "lovely" dips behind the shoulders since he needs to put on muscle (which I'm working on).

 

[Levilevi49]

 

[jhoward]

The Kieffer's are ideal as cut back on the pommel, if you get the right saddle the tree is adjustable ( by heat so make sure you find a saddler that can do it)

The only thing I'd say is they can seem fairly forward cut so not always ideal on a horse with a straight shoulder.

 

[Levilevi49]

The Kieffer's are ideal as cut back on the pommel, if you get the right saddle the tree is adjustable ( by heat so make sure you find a saddler that can do it)

The only thing I'd say is they can seem fairly forward cut so not always ideal on a horse with a straight shoulder.

Ah thank you! Do you know any saddles that could be better for me to try than keiffer?

 

[paddi22]

I have had a couple of high withered horses and any ones I used thorowgoods on I could also use albions and Jeffries.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’ve got a Keiffer Garmisch for my high withered Warmblood.

 

[Sheep]

We’ve a high withered giant here too, he is in an Albion K2.

 

[jhoward]

Ah thank you! Do you know any saddles that could be better for me to try than keiffer?

Not off the top of my head I'd always aimed for a cut back pommel for high withers, but 1st check where your sitting the current saddle I see far to many put to far forward
( This is also why imo you see so much dipping around withers as the saddle is sat wrong and often interfering with shoulder)

I'd suspect you could slide a couple of inches back and your view of what you and the horse may need could really change

 

[Levilevi49]

Not off the top of my head I'd always aimed for a cut back pommel for high withers, but 1st check where your sitting the current saddle I see far to many put to far forward
( This is also why imo you see so much dipping around withers as the saddle is sat wrong and often interfering with shoulder)

I'd suspect you could slide a couple of inches back and your view of what you and the horse may need could really change

Yeah I have noticed that too, but I put it where it's supposed to be so dot worry about that. Sadly there is no current saddle since I pretty much just got the horse and I don't know what saddle he was in before (besides the training and racing saddles).

 

[jhoward]

So for the minute pick up a cheap racing saddle, stick a couple of polypads under it and use longer leathers and off you go....

Not the most comfy solution but whilst horse is building up normal muscles again it's a short term idea.

 

[Levilevi49]

So for the minute pick up a cheap racing saddle, stick a couple of polypads under it and use longer leathers and off you go....

Not the most comfy solution but whilst horse is building up normal muscles again it's a short term idea.

Yeah I've had that idea too, I just need to, the cheapest ones out rn are around 200 pounds, but that might be worth it? Of course full tree

 

[sbloom]

So for the minute pick up a cheap racing saddle, stick a couple of polypads under it and use longer leathers and off you go....

Not the most comfy solution but whilst horse is building up normal muscles again it's a short term idea.

Personally I wouldn't.

Kieffers could be a good option, and moving the saddle back as far as possible would enable you to go for a flatter tree, this means a smaller seat size may be possible (and needed, so as not so go beyond the back rib). This shows a bit more https://bit.ly/38Mn7aR.

I have written a blog post that might help a little, at least with understanding the principles, please ask if you have any questions https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog/back-profile-and-tree-selection-part-1.

 

[4faults]

I have a Warmblood with withers like a sharks fin and he’s in an Albion at the moment but looking to upgrade and saddler has suggested prestige or equipe

 

[cobgoblin]

Our horse that had withers like that had an Albion legend gp and a Kieffer dressage saddle

 

[Levilevi49]

Personally I wouldn't.

Kieffers could be a good option, and moving the saddle back as far as possible would enable you to go for a flatter tree, this means a smaller seat size may be possible (and needed, so as not so go beyond the back rib). This shows a bit more https://bit.ly/38Mn7aR.

I have written a blog post that might help a little, at least with understanding the principles, please ask if you have any questions https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog/back-profile-and-tree-selection-part-1.

I treating to read about!
I've decided to try a kieffer Aachen that I found really cheap, I'll move it back as you recommend.
The saddles panels were recently re-stuffed(?) too so that's good.
Hopefully it'll fit but we will see, I'm still grateful for all the help I can get!

 

[jhoward]

I treating to read about!
I've decided to try a kieffer Aachen that I found really cheap, I'll move it back as you recommend.
The saddles panels were recently re-stuffed(?) too so that's good.
Hopefully it'll fit but we will see, I'm still grateful for all the help I can get!

Most of the aachens have the heat adjustable tree, saddle should have a model number on and Kieffer will confirm it for you.

Sbloom...my racing saddle suggestion was more to use like a bareback pad so she could at least start rinding her horse

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I have a Warmblood with withers like a sharks fin and he’s in an Albion at the moment but looking to upgrade and saddler has suggested prestige or equipe

This is why I am so confused about saddle stuff. "Upgrade" from Albion, as in the brand or the model that you have? They make some nice saddles, the Fabrento for one, and there are a few versions of the SLK.

I have an uphill built, tall wither, long withered, and wide withered, short backed horse and both Prestige and Equipe don't work for similar reasons. They commonly have very slim and/or shallow panels. Not as deep as a horse with withers often needs. Then they just don't have wither room. They get so narrow up by the withers. I prefer the Italian saddles as far as my body shape and position. If you or anyone has really gotten them to work on such a beast that I've mentioned above, I'm all ears. I've tried a few over the years. The Prestige X-Doge was the closest I came to something working for a horse with a well developed front end.

I've been eyeing an Albion to replace my Fairfax, actually.

 

[Levilevi49]

Most of the aachens have the heat adjustable tree, saddle should have a model number on and Kieffer will confirm it for you.

Sbloom...my racing saddle suggestion was more to use like a bareback pad so she could at least start rinding her horse

Yeahh I tried bareback pad and I ended up in the hospital haha, and I've ridden a few racehorses so I'm kinda surprised I even got hurt this time.
In that case I'd rather get a training saddle, problem with those are that they kinda restrict the back legs, unless I get like a stridefree saddle. Stridefree costs around 650 pounds too, plus I have more balance and control in that saddle. But I think it's a bit too much of money on a temporary saddle.

Hopefully the Aachen saddle will work, but we'll see.
If that won't do the job I'll see if I can get my hands on an albion.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I had really good luck with Kieffer saddles and my last ex-racer, actually. Passier was decent too.

 

[4faults]

This is why I am so confused about saddle stuff. "Upgrade" from Albion, as in the brand or the model that you have? They make some nice saddles, the Fabrento for one, and there are a few versions of the SLK.

I have an uphill built, tall wither, long withered, and wide withered, short backed horse and both Prestige and Equipe don't work for similar reasons. They commonly have very slim and/or shallow panels. Not as deep as a horse with withers often needs. Then they just don't have wither room. They get so narrow up by the withers. I prefer the Italian saddles as far as my body shape and position. If you or anyone has really gotten them to work on such a beast that I've mentioned above, I'm all ears. I've tried a few over the years. The Prestige X-Doge was the closest I came to something working for a horse with a well developed front end.

I've been eyeing an Albion to replace my Fairfax, actually.

Ancient solid as a rock Albion that was the only thing that would even remotely fit young shark fin. Now he’s filled out and muscles up we have more choice. That and I hate Albions I find them so uncomfortable ?

 

[Levilevi49]

I've tried the kieffer Aachen which fits pretty good, but of course the wither is too long. I can only get 1,5 fingers in where the wither starts to go down again. A friend in the stable put a mattes sheepskin pad under the saddle, and the wither clearance finally existed! I can get the whole hand in, of course it'll press together more if a riders in the saddle.
But I was wondering if that's a good idea to use the mattes sheepskin pad under the saddle for now until he builds more muscle? Or is it a bad idea?

 

[sbloom]

I've tried the kieffer Aachen which fits pretty good, but of course the wither is too long. I can only get 1,5 fingers in where the wither starts to go down again. A friend in the stable put a mattes sheepskin pad under the saddle, and the wither clearance finally existed! I can get the whole hand in, of course it'll press together more if a riders in the saddle.
But I was wondering if that's a good idea to use the mattes sheepskin pad under the saddle for now until he builds more muscle? Or is it a bad idea?

It depends, sorry, there's never one answer. I love Mattes pads, the best sheepskin there is, and if it's a shim pad there's a lot you can do with it. IF the tree width is correct (ie parallel or fractionally wider), the saddle is now in correct balance, stable, makes the right contact down the front either side of the wither, and along both panels from front to back, the channel is wide enough for the spine and there is no hair ruffling when you get off, then probably it's fine.

If you feel confident to assess all that then you might be away and I would always prefer to fit a fraction wider and use sheepskin and shims to get clearance than overflock a saddle (some are SO sold and/or bulge into either side of the wither, you don't want your horse to be concave there, so what have a convex saddle....) or fit it too narrow to get clearance.