Saddle on Pidge - opinions please?

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Pidge

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Ok I know technically this should be in PG but this does refer to my earlier post so here goes
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and if you got this far a couple more videos from Sunday - please please excuse my crap position
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvmO_VfAq3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMvDi2U3YH4
 
Tree is too small (as in head size - if you used a Wintec or WOW you have different headplate sizes, I would say you should expand 2 sizes) - it sits way too far off his back IMHO. Whilst you want and need clearance, that just doesn't fit. It is hard to see as I like to look from the front, down the gullet and pop a hand under the pommel when the rider is on and off, but I think that is your main problem honey.
 
Thanks Lou, how far off his back should it sit then? When I'm on it is it 4 fingers between the saddle and Pidge?
If that is what's causing the problem is it easily fixed?
 
I agree, the tree is too narrow. The marks are where the saddle points are sitting and this is pushing the pommel high. You need a wider tree to allow the saddle to sit lwer and balanced.
 
this saddle is seriously over flocked. i suspect the pads are very hard and solid. It is definitely too narrow and standing up at the front which would have tipped your saddle back. To compensate I believe your saddler has overflocked from the waist back lifting the back up. As a result you are so far off his back. this compounded with an elastic girth is I believe causing your movement.

When you sit on your saddle you want no more than 3 fingers between the saddle and your horse - Unless it is a flat backed cob which requires a keyholed tree to ensure fit. Your horse has a good shaped back but the white hair is caused by pressure so your saddle needs to be changed.

Some saddlers can alter a saddle but some will sell you another. This is not just a flocking job it is an alteration of the header plate - a gutting of the saddle trimming the internals and refitting to template. with a total reflock. I would expect a cost of about £150. You can have a new tree put in by the manufacturer - depending on who made it, and a new tree normally costs about £250 to have put in.

You need to find a decent saddler - the one you have used has failed you to be honest and for your horses sake you need to find someone who knows what they are talking about - Which area of the country are you in someone on here may be able to help you find someone decent.
 
Unfortunately no, it isn't easily fixed - you will need a new saddle
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However, you should have comeback on your saddler because he has sold you a saddle that clearly does not fit your horse!
 
you obviously know what your talking about so thank you
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It was made by my saddler to fit me and Pidge and so that we could jump more than 3' if I wanted to, hence I didn't go for a GP style. If it needs all this drastic alterations then should he pay for it as I have photos going back over time since I've had it that show it moves at the back? I paid a lot of money for the saddle and girth and am mortified and upset that it isn't fit for what I want and that I've been hurting Pidge by jumping in it
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will the white hairs ever go or are they here forever?
 
Completely agree with Bosworth and couldn't have said it as well as she has!
I'm afraid I would change the saddle before it causes serious problems.
We had a chap out here a few months back who totally dismantled a saddle in his mobile workshop, reflocked it and fitted it to horse and rider.
I think it was around £160..
It may be better to put that towards a saddle that will be a perfect fit for you both in the long run however.
 
I agree with all the comments, it looks like you have someone elses saddle on him.

Its not your fault though, you have been trusting the master saddler. I would def be having strong words with him.

Thankfully Pidge is such a good natured horse, some horses wouldnt have been quite so forgiving of a fit like that, which could have ended up being dangerous.

I think a new saddle, but not from him, might be the best option.
 
TO be absolutely honest I suspect your saddler will not consider himself responsible - he will state that it did fit your horse when he sold it to you and your horse has changed shape. Some saddlers are notoriously difficult to accept responsibility for a bad fit - but to be honest a horse can change shape in a couple of weeks and the saddle not fit.

I would ask to see the initial template the saddler took - then ask to see the new template that he took when he refitted it - you need to see proof that his shape had not changed. You can report him to trading standards, but as long as he tries to resolve your problem you probably won't get very far with it.

You have all the information we have given you here so you can ask the saddler about those specific points.

Under no circumstances should a saddle lift off a horses back as it jumps - as the smack when the horse lands and the saddle comes back down is seriously damaging. if the white hair has only come after 1 coat change then if you remove the pressure immediately and insist on a well fitting saddle then you may grow the white hair out.
 
Am sat here in tears as feel so exasperated by the whole thing. The saddle cost a lot of money and I thought I was doing the right thing by getting it made specially and all I've done is cause Pidge pain and cause myself grief
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If he says that Pidge has changed shape so much since he made the saddle just over a year ago then how can he justify checking it a couple of weeks ago and saying its fine! How can he be a master saddler and do this
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I have got photos covering the period I've had the saddle that show it lifiting at the back would these help?
Tips please for how to insist its wrong fitting to him and how to get him to rectify it for nothing or do I just cut my losses and get someone else to sort it out. Then how do I find someone else who won't do the same thing. Seriously seriuosly fed up
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Oh dear, I do feel for you. Chin up! I'm afraid to say I don't think you will get anywhere with the saddler
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I think the only thing you can do is sell the saddle and get another one and use a different saddler
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I know you will lose money and its a pain in the arse and it shouldn't have happened
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Makes me so cross people can get away with these sort of things!
 
Big hug Pidge. Don't cry, I am having horrible problems with my saddle and I have spent over £2k and am VERY lucky that First Thought are not demanding the return of my saddle because the fitter hasn't paid them for it! They absolutely confirm, without any doubt, that the saddle does NOT fit the horse (or me for that matter), but will not cover costs for me to get another fitter out
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I have to wait until November 7th to have it looked at and in the meantime am stuck against a wall and a hard place. Even though I used a fitter that was recommended by the manufacturer, they are under no obligation to do anything for me! I have fitted many saddles in my lifetime to my horses and have never had a problem before - I use a recommended fitter and the sh!t hits the fan
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I completely understand your frustrations.

I do not see how that saddle ever fitted Pidge. He has obvious dips under the wither and no noticeable change of frame (if anything I would say he is lighter now than last year and although he is in better shape there is no significant muscle build up in the areas that are causing a problem). Bosworth obviously knows what she is talking about in an in depth way, so I would take advice from her on where to go from here x
 
So hard not to Lou as I feel I've let him down as have ridden mainly in the jump saddle as its so comfortable and could only keep one saddle at yard and its only since moving yards in August that I've done my flat work in my dressage saddle.
Is that your WOW saddle your having problems with? What a bummer
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So what have they said they will do for you then? surely they do have an obligaton if they recommended the fitter to you?
Are the dips under the withers caused by this saddle then? bearing in mind I've used it pretty much every day for well over a year? Thank you for noticing the differences in Pidge, the only real difference is that he has built up more muscle behind the saddle and lost a little at the front according to my instructor who sees him on a weekly basis.
 
Yes my WOW
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It will get sorted eventually but it is highly frustrating in the meantime as I am riding in a Sabre that cost me £275 from bloody eBay 3 years ago that I can make fit any horse - go figure! I don't think I am important enough to be seen, especially as they have not been paid for my saddle, which isn't MY fault! They are busy trying to recover monies owed to them ATM.

Dips under the withers can certainly be caused by ill fitting saddles - of that I have no doubt.
 
Oh fantastic so you're left in the lurch because of someone else
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when you've finished with your Sabre saddle can you send it in my direction please
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I have PM bosworth for some tips for next week
Oh I wish I drank alcohol as I could go drown my sorrows.....
 
Pidge, it doesn't fit the horse, and tbh, having watched the vids, it doesn't fit you either. i don't think it's big enough in the seat for you at all (this is constructive, i promise!)
if he tries to weasel out of the "it doesn't fit the horse" argument, he can't get out of the fact that it doesn't fit you, unless you've really changed shape dramatically.
i have never seen a saddle do what yours did on take-off. i've seen them float off the back in midair slightly, especially on a long-backed horse over a big fence with the rider very forward, but not slap up and down as the horse leaves the ground over 1 foot high, no no no. very very unfair on the horse.
get the saddler back, make sure you have a big calm witness with you (ideally a large quiet bloke i think!) tell him you have paid him plenty of money (have it all listed) for a saddle to fit you and the horse, and it does neither, it is actually doing damage (white hairs etc)... those are incontrovertible evidence. have a word with the Masterful Company of Saddlers first if you can, before you get him back, and maybe mention that to him. you either want it changed for what you paid for, a saddle that fits you both, or ideally you want a full refund (yes, really, under Trading Standards) so you can go to someone
very very best of luck. let us know how it goes.
 
its an 18" saddle and I've dropped to a size 14 from an 18 last year
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jacket is way too big but not got round to buying another one yet. Does my bum really look too big then
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So I really need to get him to accept on Tuesday that it doesn't fit Pidge and is actually causing him problems in several areas of his back. Oh boy am so not looking forward to Tuesday as I hate confrontation.
Will definately ring the master saddlers though, thanks for that useful tip.
ETS: got a picture of him in May 06 with no white hairs whatsoever on his right side
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pidge - it may be worth measuring from the brand pin to the centre of the cantle just to be sure it is actually 18". It is another favourite trick to tell you it is one size then actually produce one a different size as they only have that tree available.

Have you had a back person see the horse to confirm areas of pain. I would expect him to be sore from the withers to the back of the saddle. Does he flinch as you go to him with a saddle or back away or make faces when you put it on - do up the girth. If this is the case then it would be worth getting them to write you a note stating that in their professional opinion the saddle is causing damage. That would make it slightly easier for you. If you have got a decent back person they would normally be prepared to work with a decent saddler to ensure the horses back is sorted
 
Hey, Ive had very similar problems with my pony (that are still not fully resolved,) in the last month or so. I have found a saddler in Staffs who is just absolutely excellent; she will also work in conjunction with a good chiro to ensure P isnt suffering any after effects from the previous saddle. If you would like to know how to contact her drop her a pm!
 
will do
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no pain in his back or problems when saddling him, he is far too honest and obliging to object I'm afraid
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