Saddle refund advice

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Bobstar

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Hi,
I’m after some advice before I contact fitter.
Long story short, new saddle made and fitted February for my daughter (by MSF) 17inch sized and paid for (I have the invoice), many issues with it not resolved horse looking more uncomfortable ( to much to write) , physio out for stiffness ( she thought saddle didn’t look right), asked a visiting saddle fitter on the yard to take a quick look at the saddle out of interest Saturday when she informed me it was actually a 17.5 and not a 17 inch & looked too long!
I still can’t believe the saddle fitter didn’t notice on the 1 & only visit she’s managed since post sale or even check it was correct before delivery.
Anyway would this class as ‘not as described’ and go for a refund ?
 
Bobstar said:
Hi,
I’m after some advice before I contact fitter.
Long story short, new saddle made and fitted February for my daughter (by MSF) 17inch sized and paid for (I have the invoice), many issues with it not resolved horse looking more uncomfortable ( to much to write) , physio out for stiffness ( she thought saddle didn’t look right), asked a visiting saddle fitter on the yard to take a quick look at the saddle out of interest Saturday when she informed me it was actually a 17.5 and not a 17 inch & looked too long!
I still can’t believe the saddle fitter didn’t notice on the 1 & only visit she’s managed since post sale or even check it was correct before delivery.
Anyway would this class as ‘not as described’ and go for a refund ?
Click to expand...
similar story - had a saddle fitter in May, fitted it to horse, September really low on back and chiro out as horse not happy, re checked saddle, reflocked, 3 days later back down on withers. Second opinion, said saddle was too small and was a low with on a horse with withers. £ 1350 out of pocket, saddler wants to help but i said no they wont give money back and saddle was new as they said only one would fit was new, just a ploy to get money.
 
Bobstar said:
Hi,
I’m after some advice before I contact fitter.
Long story short, new saddle made and fitted February for my daughter (by MSF) 17inch sized and paid for (I have the invoice), many issues with it not resolved horse looking more uncomfortable ( to much to write) , physio out for stiffness ( she thought saddle didn’t look right), asked a visiting saddle fitter on the yard to take a quick look at the saddle out of interest Saturday when she informed me it was actually a 17.5 and not a 17 inch & looked too long!
I still can’t believe the saddle fitter didn’t notice on the 1 & only visit she’s managed since post sale or even check it was correct before delivery.
Anyway would this class as ‘not as described’ and go for a refund ?
Click to expand...
I suspect your original saddler would have to come back out first but you might struggle with the length of time you've had it re: refund.

I think you need a repeat visit to see what she says
 
Is it marked as a 17.5/have a serial number that would identify it as such? Or did your saddler make it? If it was bespoke I think that can make it more complicated @sbloom has some good posts on that I think if you use the search function
 
Saddles can be marked a different size, measure a different size...for instance a saddle stamped 17 may have had an extended cantle added, measure 17.5-18 but be made onto he same panel as the 17, so is the same length as a 17 for the horse. It's complicated.

Key will be paperwork, whether the saddle does go beyond the back rib (though some types of saddles can) and, as already mentioned, timing, how much the horse has changed shape, how prompt and useful help has been.

Contact SMS, BETA etc if they're members, your insurer if you're covered for legal fees and Trading Standards for legal advice. Small claims is fairly straightforward and dirt cheap.

If we're not given, or clearly directed to, terms and conditions then that adds to your case.

I believe I'm correct in saying that after 6 months the onus is on you to prove it doesn't fit or possibly isn't what you ordered rather than them to prove it is/did (which is the case for the first 6 months under the 2015 consumer protection legislation, or that's my understanding of it)...horses change shape obviously so without a really clean written trail showing these issues again you may struggle to prove the case.

Oftentimes one way out of it is to ask the fitter to buy the saddle back from you or to sell on your behalf and move on. This is where getting advice is critical because it depends son your individual case.

This is all my understanding and not legal advice!
 
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Good luck in proving a saddle didn’t fit.

I lost over £1k on a saddle that was flogged to me. It never fitted my horse, and was never going to. It was an exceptionally narrow one, and I believe the saddler was looking to offload it on the horse that it fitted “the best”.

And yes I am an experienced horse own, and can “generally” tell if a saddle really doesn’t fit.
 
Cut your losses sell (see if can they buy back at a discounted rate or see if any other second hand saddle fitter wants it or sell on saddle bank) and find one that fits. Been through it myself this year after I was worrying about saddle not fitting my horse as she had filled out (but she was going well but also wanted to upgrade to nice leather showing one), stopped cantering overnight. It was a nightmare, got told my horse was just unbalanced, let them adjust the new one where I should have just asked for my old one back, they then sold it in the trial period and I had to rebuy the old model on saddle bank at a loss. completely burnt!
 
ester said:
Is it marked as a 17.5/have a serial number that would identify it as such? Or did your saddler make it? If it was bespoke I think that can make it more complicated @sbloom has some good posts on that I think if you use the search function
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Thanks, yes the serial number has 175 on it and measuring it is 17.5. I have it as a 17 inch on receipt. 🤷‍♀️ so I thought I would have rights on the fact not as described or the one I paid for?
 
I wanted to clarify that it wasn’t just what the other saddler said as it’s easier to prove if it’s written down on the saddle
 
Bobstar said:
Thanks, yes the serial number has 175 on it and measuring it is 17.5. I have it as a 17 inch on receipt. 🤷‍♀️ so I thought I would have rights on the fact not as described or the one I paid for?
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ester said:
I wanted to clarify that it wasn’t just what the other saddler said as it’s easier to prove if it’s written down on the saddle
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Yes measured the saddle too 17.5, this wasn’t a bespoke made to measure (just to clarify) it was ordered in a 17inch brown as the fitter had only black in stock and she lent us a black 17 inch whilst we waited and it was a good fit. I don’t dispute she measured mare incorrectly just that the wrong saddle size was made and delivered and we’ve only just noticed. The only paper work I have is the receipt stating 17 inch and saved all the correspondence ( what little there was ) from her, didn’t even sign t&c’s ? I will wait to hear back from her 🥴
 
I would say if you'd brough this up in the first 14-30 days it would be a no brainer, the fact you've had the saddle for well over 6 months may go against you. A reminder to check your paperwork, check the saddle, check everything. Saddles are a big investment so you need to be sure you've at least got what you ordered. Hopefully she'll come to a decent arrangement with you.

You don't necessarily have to sign Ts and Cs afaik (though many of us have a fitting sheet to be signed which acknowledges full Ts and Cs, all depends exactly what you have, timings etc.
 
sbloom said:
I would say if you'd brough this up in the first 14-30 days it would be a no brainer, the fact you've had the saddle for well over 6 months may go against you. A reminder to check your paperwork, check the saddle, check everything. Saddles are a big investment so you need to be sure you've at least got what you ordered. Hopefully she'll come to a decent arrangement with you.

You don't necessarily have to sign Ts and Cs afaik (though many of us have a fitting sheet to be signed which acknowledges full Ts and Cs, all depends exactly what you have, timings etc.
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I wish I had noticed the serial number when she delivered it or sooner 🤦‍♀️we started having problems in the first month slipping left and forward.
The fitter I presume hadn’t noticed either she shimmed it up after I got her back after 5 months (she told me to leave it 6 months before first check?) it slipped again the day after she came back. She told me to leave it another 6 months.
It’s only really the last month of having the physio out etc that we’ve come to conclusion that the saddle is the wrong size and by chance got someone to take a quick look . Is it worth getting the physio to write a report?
 
fredflop said:
Good luck in proving a saddle didn’t fit.

I lost over £1k on a saddle that was flogged to me. It never fitted my horse, and was never going to. It was an exceptionally narrow one, and I believe the saddler was looking to offload it on the horse that it fitted “the best”.

And yes I am an experienced horse own, and can “generally” tell if a saddle really doesn’t fit.
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I had this but paid almost 3k if i remember right by a fitter who didn't even bother to check it fitted when she delivered it. I ended up selling it for.£300 I'm the end. Since then I don't do made to measure, I have heard to many con stories
 
Bobstar said:
I wish I had noticed the serial number when she delivered it or sooner 🤦‍♀️we started having problems in the first month slipping left and forward.
The fitter I presume hadn’t noticed either she shimmed it up after I got her back after 5 months (she told me to leave it 6 months before first check?) it slipped again the day after she came back. She told me to leave it another 6 months.
It’s only really the last month of having the physio out etc that we’ve come to conclusion that the saddle is the wrong size and by chance got someone to take a quick look . Is it worth getting the physio to write a report?
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If they're happy to do it then yes, sure, but it's in the balance I'm afraid. The fact that her "help" hasn't been much help goes on the plus side. And if any fitter ever says don't have a check for 6 months, best move on. Saddles bed in in 3 months maximum and need checking then.
 
mariew said:
I had this but paid almost 3k if i remember right by a fitter who didn't even bother to check it fitted when she delivered it. I ended up selling it for.£300 I'm the end. Since then I don't do made to measure, I have heard to many con stories
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Mine was an off the shelf one. It was that narrow it probably never would have fitted anything. More fool me for trusting recommendations of a "fantastic" fitter on here, when I should have used my local one.
 
Get another saddler to write an independent report confirming the saddle you have been sold is NOT a 17 inch and as such, is not as described and not fit for purpose.

You have a receipt and correspondence detailing the saddle should be 17 inch.

Take it to small claims court. I would.

You don't have to prove it doesnt fit the pony because that isnt really the merit of the case.
 
Jenko109 said:
Get another saddler to write an independent report confirming the saddle you have been sold is NOT a 17 inch and as such, is not as described and not fit for purpose.

You have a receipt and correspondence detailing the saddle should be 17 inch.

Take it to small claims court. I would.

You don't have to prove it doesnt fit the pony because that isnt really the merit of the case.
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Thank you, yes I’m going on the lines of not as described also physio advised it’s not fit for purpose and not to use it due the pain it is causing, that half an inch has caused a whole load of problems !
 
fredflop said:
Mine was an off the shelf one. It was that narrow it probably never would have fitted anything. More fool me for trusting recommendations of a "fantastic" fitter on here, when I should have used my local one.
Click to expand...

If that was me then I would ask for feedback, not on here but by PM, because funnily enough if a fitter has screwed up I'd rather know so I don't recommend them again.
 
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