Saddle refund

ycbm said:
There's a recent thread that you should try to find and read. It explains how saddles with the same size seat can vary in panel length, and one fit the horse and one not. Also, some saddles are measured by the size of their tree and some by the size once it has been covered with leather, which makes a difference of about half an inch. and lastly, because the measurement at the pommel is to a button which can be placed very differently, one saddle can measure the same as another but be a very different size and fit.

Basically, you can't say this saddle is the same length on her back as your one he said was too long just because the seat measures the same.

So the answer to your question is probably no, sorry.
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Even though he told me it was a 17" and that nothing bigger than that would fit her ? He never even looked at my old saddles on the horse so wouldn't even know where the panel length would sit
He told me a 17-5" was too big for my horse and I needed a 17" then proceeded to sell me a 17.5 !
 
angelish said:
Even though he told me it was a 17" and that nothing bigger than that would fit her ? He never even looked at my old saddles on the horse so wouldn't even know where the panel length would sit
He told me a 17-5" was too big for my horse and I needed a 17" then proceeded to sell me a 17.5 !
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did you get a receipt or any paperwork from the seller
 
angelish said:
Even though he told me it was a 17" and that nothing bigger than that would fit her ? He never even looked at my old saddles on the horse so wouldn't even know where the panel length would sit
He told me a 17-5" was too big for my horse and I needed a 17" then proceeded to sell me a 17.5 !
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You are talking about the seat size. It is the panel size that determines whether a saddle is too long for the horse's back, not the seat size.
 
Cortez said:
This happens so many times on here (and in RL); do people not learn about basic saddle fit for themselves any more? It's really not complicated. I was taught when I was a very young teenager by a kind horseman, and then did a short stint with a saddler (a real one, not just a saddle seller - he made saddles from the tree up) which was possibly one of the most useful things I've ever done. I don't think most people realise that "saddle fitters" aren't saddlers and often have only done a very short orientation course before going out with their "qualifications" (not true of everyone of course; there are some genuinely skilled and experienced people out there). This trend of outsourcing basic skills, now including bit fitting "consultants", bemuses this oldie who learned all this as a child. There are excellent resources to teach yourselves: books, and videos, etc. on tinternet.....
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I agree with this - and would add that the real expert saddle fitter is the horse, ignore him at your peril!
 
Seriously you have left it far too long. We bought a horse in September and got a secondhand saddle that fitted, by December the horse was fit and the saddle didn't! The good news was another saddle we had then DID fit. The bad news is by the end of next month I can see the saddle the horse has will no longer fit, as the horse has really muscled out.
 
angelish said:
Even though he told me it was a 17" and that nothing bigger than that would fit her ? He never even looked at my old saddles on the horse so wouldn't even know where the panel length would sit
He told me a 17-5" was too big for my horse and I needed a 17" then proceeded to sell me a 17.5 !
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No this isn’t a reason to return... it depends on make I have an 18 inch equipe that is significantly shorter than my 17 inch Albion when sat on the horse it’s a bit like clothes sizes they don’t run true through out the makes ...

If you bought a pair of shoes that were the wrong size and then wore them for 2 years and then decided they didn’t fit - would you get your money back? The law would think the same about a saddle. The answer is a big fat no by the way. If something is missold and you use it for the best part of 2 years the law says you have accepted the misselling part. and if you argue you didn’t know it was missold the law would say that if you couldn’t tell that it was missold for 2 years then it is probably not missold. Also horses can change shape so fast depending on work and feeding, my mare put on 3 inches across her back in 4 months when we started doing some proper work and because she was young, I think you are going to have to write this one off to experience.
 
ycbm said:
You are talking about the seat size. It is the panel size that determines whether a saddle is too long for the horse's back, not the seat size.
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To add. It's also perfectly possible, even if you are correctly told by a saddler that it's too long now, that it wasn't too long when it was fitted. As the horse muscles up, the wither rises, and the shoulder can get bigger and push the saddle back so that it sits further back than when it was bought.
 
Yes I do realise that
He just told me that a 17.5" is too big for my horse and made me feel terrible for riding my horse in it and didn't even look at those saddles on the horse so he wouldn't even know how far back they would go !
Weather it is shorter in the panel than an average 17.5" saddle or not he told me it was a 17" saddle
I can't help feeling really annoyed now he's lied to me to get a sale when I could of kept the saddle that I had and saved a lot of money
I totally get that panels can be different lengths depending on the make/style of saddle as the gp saddle he also told me was far too big for her didn't actually come as far back as the bates gp he recommended that I bought for her !
 
tuppy said:
suggest you look at WHICH website, or if you are a gold member of BHS there is free legal advice I am only conversant with this via credit card payments, or google consumer protection act, I would always advise using a credit card for payments over £100 as there is good protection, there is chargeback for debit cards but the time limit is 6 weeks I think. After my experience, I got kicked in the neck, I got on to youtube, there are hundreds of video clips demonstrating how to check the fit of a saddle, I admit its not easy, took me many hours, Jochem Scleese, a german saddler, has a lot of these videos demonstrating saddle fit checks, its well worth educating oneself how to check a saddle for fit, once you get the hang of it .. SIMPLES, I could go through it but would take a while. Would make sure in future 2 or 3 templates are taken, over the withers, at the last rib and from the withers along the back to the last rib, get paperwork, template copy, documentation, insist on it, Panther run saddlery has a video on how to do these templates, worth a look, I'm sorry I can't be more help, I hope you get something sorted.
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Schleese is a totally different way of fitting saddles, some factors are the same, but many are not (they fit to the shoulder angle, not the ribcage angle, which means their saddles would all sit at a narrower angle) so it's not universal and should only be applied to their types of saddles.

Kitt Hazelton of Panther Run has an awesome blog which is probably where you found the post, highly recommend - saddlefitter.blogspot.com

ycbm said:
There's a recent thread that you should try to find and read. It explains how saddles with the same size seat can vary in panel length, and one fit the horse and one not. Also, some saddles are measured by the size of their tree and some by the size once it has been covered with leather, which makes a difference of about half an inch. and lastly, because the measurement at the pommel is to a button which can be placed very differently, one saddle can measure the same as another but be a very different size and fit.

Basically, you can't say this saddle is the same length on her back as your one he said was too long just because the seat measures the same.

So the answer to your question is probably no, sorry.
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This. I have once fitted a saddle that was half an inch longer than I thought, but I absolutely checked it for length. It made me look a bit of a tit, and took some convincing the customer that it wasn't too long, so although it's annoying to you that he said it was a 17 and not a 17.5 and that the latter would be too long, it's either too long or it isn't, and it may be fine.

ycbm said:
To add. It's also perfectly possible, even if you are correctly told by a saddler that it's too long now, that it wasn't too long when it was fitted. As the horse muscles up, the wither rises, and the shoulder can get bigger and push the saddle back so that it sits further back than when it was bought.
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Just to be picky this doesn't mean the saddle is too long, it means it's sitting in the wrong place (though as you know more saddles sit too far forwards, making them look okay on the back rib when they're not), may be fixable, may not, and may require going to a smaller seat size, or a straighter cut.

A horse's back actually lengthens when it lifts, muscles and flattens, it can get shorter if it has had a bad fitting saddle, ie drops the whole spine into more of a curve, or with late teens or twenties horse.
 
Yes that is true, sorry hadn't clocked he had dismissed it without seeing it. As you've gathered saddle panel length varies and it's impossible to say that your horse absolutely needs seat size X and nothing else. A panel style that I use fits 1" shorter than the same tree with a different panel.
 
sbloom said:
Yes that is true, sorry hadn't clocked he had dismissed it without seeing it. As you've gathered saddle panel length varies and it's impossible to say that your horse absolutely needs seat size X and nothing else. A panel style that I use fits 1" shorter than the same tree with a different panel.
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Thank you I do appreciate your input :)
It's just been a nightmare this saddle from the start I feel like I've wasted a whole comp season faffing about with shims and gullet bars and spent a fortune on different saddle pads etc to try to achieve a better fit when I should have just got him back in the first place it's just everytime I got him out he was charging me and then the saddle was always worse after he'd changed something , the last time he put a shim in one back section on the panel that it made the air bag so hard the horse wouldn't let me back on her for a week after I'd ridden in it like that , I did ring him just before xmas and he just wasn't at all helpful he was blaming a gel pad I'd used saying the saddle was fine before I'd used that but that isn't the case :(
I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't do anything sooner tbh but was hoping that as he'd quite clearly lied to me about the seat size of the saddle to get a sale I might of had a chance of getting some money back
Thanks again
 
TBH I think I'd cut losses, take good photos of saddle and sell it secondhand via FB market place. FB groups / ebay / preloved

And find a good saddler, trust yours instincts, listen to your horse, and get a saddle that fits you both as soon as possible.

Its a good reason to ideally always buy second hand, as can cut your losses and move on.
 
Goldenstar said:
My saddler winces when she sees what we put under Tatts’ saddle but he’s adamant and consistent it’s want he likes .
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I always fit my WOWs with a gullet plate at least one wider than they measure and thick pad, but they all tell me they can move best that way.
 
angelish said:
I've now discovered another problem
It was sold to me as a 17" saddle as he said my saddles were too long being 17.5" hence the reason I needed to buy this new one
I've sent the serial number to sheepham saddles and it is in fact a 17.5" saddle !
But it has a tiny sticker on the stirrup bar saying 17"
I've measured it and it looks to be a 17.5" !
So he's said to me I need new saddles as mine are far too long and he's sold me a saddle for a lot of money that is the same size !
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If it's a Bates they do seem to measure up bigger than their size. I only know this as I had a Bates Inova stolen a good few years ago now. When it was seized by the police I had fun and games proving it was mine as even though it had the same identifying marks when they put a tape measure to it it was coming up as 17.5" even though it was very much a 17" (there's no way the horse I had would have taken anything bigger!).
 
FestiveFuzz said:
If it's a Bates they do seem to measure up bigger than their size. I only know this as I had a Bates Inova stolen a good few years ago now. When it was seized by the police I had fun and games proving it was mine as even though it had the same identifying marks when they put a tape measure to it it was coming up as 17.5" even though it was very much a 17" (there's no way the horse I had would have taken anything bigger!).
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Hi it's not that it's measuring bigger it's serial number belongs to a 17.5" saddle , it mearsures 17.5" but it has a 17" sticker on the stirrup bar and was sold to me as a 17"

My friend has the bates issabel and I tried that and even though I know now it was actually the same size the whole saddle was a lot bigger than the ordinary bates and the panels came out much further back than my saddle even though it was same size seat
Saddler coming to pick it up to try and get to the bottom of it anyway so fingers crossed
 
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