Saddle shooting forward

[Templebar]

I have a horse who has been out of work for a long time, i finally managed to keep the weight off this winter and spring and get her feet right to bring her back into work. I have 2 saddles which fit ok, i will be getting a fitter out when i can to asses properly. However one of the issues we have always had is if she goes downhill or puts in a buck the saddle can shoot forward onto her wither.

She has a very well sprung rib cage to the point she always looks like shes fat and could be in foal. I seem to have narrowed down the problem now to that when we go downhill or she bucks, the saddle slips forward as there is not enough shoulder or wither to keep it back, then it feels like i am perched on her wither, which is then uncomfortable for her, sometimes it will go back a bit but not enough to where it should be placed.

Long term i think if she gets into proper work, the weight is kept down then her shoulder and wither may build up a bit to help support the saddle, but in the short term any advice if anyone has had a horse like this and what or how did you correct it.

 

[paddi22]

this is probably a stupid question as you've probably done it already, but have you tried anti slip pads?

 

[Amirah]

Is it a forward girth groove problem with the girth pulling the saddle forward?

 

[SEL]

I'll be interested in responses because the micro cob is the same (2 foals before she turned 7 has not helped her figure!). She's changing shape as she comes back into work but the saddle is definitely slipping and I think with her its the forward girth groove.

 

[Templebar]

this is probably a stupid question as you've probably done it already, but have you tried anti slip pads?

I have not she is a chestnut and quite sensitive and my experience of anti slip pads is that if it still moves it ruffles the hair which can cause pain, so i have always tried to avoid them even in the roundest of horses, so i was trying to steer clear unless it is a last resort.

 

[Shay]

In the short term I suppose you could use a crupper? Not ideal obviously - you need a saddle that fits. But this is exactly why they were invented as a bit of tack!

 

[Templebar]

Is it a forward girth groove problem with the girth pulling the saddle forward?

I have not looked at this as i have not had it explained well enough for me to understand but this is one of the avenues that i think a fitter will be able to help me with, she is quite short back too which doesn't help. If it makes any sense when i look at the girthing, it would appear that a strap further back, as you would on a point and balance strap system would help.

In the short term I suppose you could use a crupper? Not ideal obviously - you need a saddle that fits. But this is exactly why they were invented as a bit of tack!

Again no, it would have been my go to but as she sometimes bucks i don't want to make this worse. Also i think the shooting forward is so much that a crupper would just get tight and cause her issues. But it is something i am considering if i struggle with a resolution.

 

[Amirah]

I've got one with a very forward girth groove, combined with no wither or shoulder, everything went up her neck. I tried a curved girth but eventually bought a treeless which had girth straps that were sewn on angled forwards which worked best.

If her girth groove is right behind her elbow then it will pull the saddle forward to make a straight line with the girth straps (if that makes sense). Saddles can be such a nightmare, I can't bear to think how much money I've spent (wasted). I was advised to try a crupper but the weight of an adult rider on a tail didn't strike me as very comfortable. Probably OK for little tots.

 

[TPO]

Is the saddle too wide?

If it didnt do this previously and it fitted at that point it's unlikely to fit well now that she has lost weight.

Is bucking "normal" for her or could this be saddle related?

 

[Templebar]

Is the saddle too wide?

If it didnt do this previously and it fitted at that point it's unlikely to fit well now that she has lost weight.

Is bucking "normal" for her or could this be saddle related?

She has had one saddle fitted when she was younger and i knew less that was too long (18inch on a short backed 4yo) when we realised this we stopped using it, she has since had feet problems which we are now to get right, the two saddles im trying at the moment have been roughly fitted by me mostly looking at width, length and bridging, the one is possibly a little too wide, but its not enough that its down on her spine. One is a wintec cair and the other was made for her dam. The bucking is a temperament thing mostly, if i try to school her she will do it more but i think its mostly frustration at lack of understanding, if we go hacking i don't get the bucking. She has very little schooling prior to the issues and so we are pretty much starting from scratch.

 

[TPO]

She has had one saddle fitted when she was younger and i knew less that was too long (18inch on a short backed 4yo) when we realised this we stopped using it, she has since had feet problems which we are now to get right, the two saddles im trying at the moment have been roughly fitted by me mostly looking at width, length and bridging, the one is possibly a little too wide, but its not enough that its down on her spine. One is a wintec cair and the other was made for her dam. The bucking is a temperament thing mostly, if i try to school her she will do it more but i think its mostly frustration at lack of understanding, if we go hacking i don't get the bucking. She has very little schooling prior to the issues and so we are pretty much starting from scratch.

When there are soundness and/or feet issues this often affects the muscles elsewhere, namely the back. When one part isnt fully functioning within it's full range of movement it means that other parts have to compensate.

There is a high chance that there will be a link between hoof issues, back issues, saddle fit and bucking.

It does sound like there is more going on and that the saddle fit is only one part of the jigsaw. For the saddle to be moving so drastically it does sound like a fit issue is part of the problem

If you could post pictures of:

Horse stood square in level ground from front, side and back

The same pictures with each saddle on without a girth and again birthed up

Level close ups of how the saddle sits over the withers/down the shoulder on each side, at the loins and from behind

Then it might be possible to tell if they are obvious good/bad fits. Hands on is the only way to know for sure but it would be a start until you can get a fitter out.

Have a search on here for previous saddle fitting threads too, often a mine of information. @sbloom is a saddle fitter and very generous with her advice and expertise on threads. Look up Poppy Webber Saddle Fitter on fb/insta for videos about saddle fitting and saddle info. @Ambers Echo started a thread recently about saddle fitters, there are some links on there to saddle fitting resources.

 

[sbloom]

She has had one saddle fitted when she was younger and i knew less that was too long (18inch on a short backed 4yo) when we realised this we stopped using it, she has since had feet problems which we are now to get right, the two saddles im trying at the moment have been roughly fitted by me mostly looking at width, length and bridging, the one is possibly a little too wide, but its not enough that its down on her spine. One is a wintec cair and the other was made for her dam. The bucking is a temperament thing mostly, if i try to school her she will do it more but i think its mostly frustration at lack of understanding, if we go hacking i don't get the bucking. She has very little schooling prior to the issues and so we are pretty much starting from scratch.

A little too wide, on a tricky horse, is missing by a mile, trust me. I would try a thicker pad as if she's lost topline it's likely to be a little low in front and lifting at the back. I would video myself riding and see what else it's doing, you always need LOTS of info to work out what the possible cause is, there are many possible causes of the saddle running forwards.

If a saddle was down on a spine I'd be horrified, "too wide" in a saddle that used to fit is a long way off that.

The way I fit I would never advise the balance strap, the rear strap, to keep a saddle back, instead, if you have 4 or more straps, point and third would line up with a forward girth groove, BUT< if it's too wide, it will also cause instability. This is why you have to work through the context and the overall fit first - correct the balance with lifting the front if that is too low, then you can use the "1 and 3" girthing.

I would also suggest two other things, possibly an anatomical girth, and also seeing if your fitter will look at photos and help, I do (only for my own customers) and make a small charge which is redeemable against callout if we agree a hands on fitting is needed within the very short term.

 

[WelshD]

If the horse has a forward girth groove basically it drags the saddle to where the girth naturally wants to sit, an anatomical girth can help with this, my little mare has come on leaps and bounds since we got her one, she is much happier

 

[JFTDWS]

I have a saddle that did this on one similar shaped horse. I got a new saddle. It doesn't shoot up the neck. It's as simple as that, really - if it's moving to that extent, there is some aspect of the fit which is significantly off.

 

[SpotsandBays]

If the horse has a forward girth groove basically it drags the saddle to where the girth naturally wants to sit, an anatomical girth can help with this, my little mare has come on leaps and bounds since we got her one, she is much happier

Jumping on this just to find out what brand of girth you use? My saddler suggested It could be beneficial to mine due to his shape.

 

[WelshD]

Jumping on this just to find out what brand of girth you use? My saddler suggested It could be beneficial to mine due to his shape.

I have a Fylde one, not cheap but has been brilliant.

 

[Templebar]

Thanks everyone for the advice, lots to think about, i might try and get some photos if she will stand still long enough. I had a look today and it does look like it could be too wide. I will try to get hold of my fitter and get her out as soon as we can and speak to my instructor to see if she can see what is happening when i'm riding which will help.

The unsoundness issues are that she has front feet that splay and go wide badly and have a habit of splitting straight up the front which we have sorted by shoeing though for a while that didn't even stop it and the kevin bacon feet supplement which has made a massive difference. Hind feet and legs are fine. So I'm not sure that would be related to back/saddle issues but i have kept it in mind in the past and will continue to watch going forward.

 

[sbloom]

It sounds like it could be worth having somebody highly skilled but holistic have a look at her, Tom Beech The Osteopathic Vet, springs to mind. You need the whole team working together as it can be hard to get to the bottom of root causes otherwise, and frankly often the root cause matters not, you just need to get into that "vicious circle" somehow and address the issues bit by bit.