Saddle slipping on high wither PRE. *scratches head*

MDB

MDB

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 June 2014
Messages
955
Location
Spain.
Visit site
Hi forum folks,

I am struggling a bit riding our little PRE mare because of saddle issues. She was the rescue horse we got with the three inch bone deep saddle sore. It is now fully healed so we are out hacking and trying to get her working.

There aren't any saddle fitters where we are. The vet says there is good clearance and it looks fine... which it may well be when stationary, but as soon as we move off there are issues. There is only one equestrian shop in the area and although the staff are lovely they are actually non riders. So asking questions about saddle fit for high wither horses etc I may as well speak Chinese.

She has very high withers and because she was emaciated when we got her she has muscle wastage all over. Her weight is great now but she needs to build muscle and I think the issue is that in addition to her high withers she has loss of muscle behind them.

I can't figure out if it is the numnah slipping back under the saddle or the saddle slipping forward on the numnah. Or a bit of both. I think it is mainly the latter because it is worse going downhill. Within no more than five minutes it appears that their is no numnah under the front if the saddle and it is close to touching the withers.

I have to dismount and pull the numnah back up forward over the wither a bit, and push the saddle back a bit.. but five mins later (especially when downhill) I have to dismount again.

Any advice welcome. Thinking of ordering a NuuMed high wither shimmy saddlecloth from the UK. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance :)
 
Ride without a numnah. If the saddle fits properly they are not necessary, the only function they perform is to keep the saddle clean. If the saddle doesn't fit then don't ride, especially if the horse had such horrendous wounds from previous ill fitting tack. I have had exactly the same situation (rescued PRE stallion with serious open wound over the wither and muscle wastage all over back) and worked the horse for 8 months on the lunge and in hand until the back was able to take a saddle & rider again.
 
Think I'd be tempted to build her top line first. There's no rush to ride, surely? As has been said, long reining gets her out and about. How about one of those saddle pads with stirrups if you absolutely have to ride? I'd be giving her time without anything on her back having seen the pictures of that wound.
 
Cortez said:
Ride without a numnah. If the saddle fits properly they are not necessary, the only function they perform is to keep the saddle clean. If the saddle doesn't fit then don't ride, especially if the horse had such horrendous wounds from previous ill fitting tack. I have had exactly the same situation (rescued PRE stallion with serious open wound over the wither and muscle wastage all over back) and worked the horse for 8 months on the lunge and in hand until the back was able to take a saddle & rider again.
Click to expand...

Thanks Cortez. I take on board what you say, although I will admit to a little disapointment as not quite what I wanted to hear :( She has been worked on the lunge and in hand, although not as long as you did with your horse admittedly and mentally she loves going out.

I have tried just about every saddle our shop had, and this was the best fit (based on my assessment only). The shop lets me take stuff home to try and return if needed, but I am only allowed to place the saddle on her back and tighten the girth, not try it out and ride with it. If I was in the UK it would be a lot easier, but we just don't have the equestrian expertise here.

if it makes any difference, we don't do any schooling at all and only go hacking.. about half an hour to an hour each time and in walk only.

My thoughts were that something with shim pads may work temporarily until she bulks up? But I am no expert so do take on board what you say and would be interested in what others think :) :)
 
cinnamontoast said:
Think I'd be tempted to build her top line first. There's no rush to ride, surely? As has been said, long reining gets her out and about. How about one of those saddle pads with stirrups if you absolutely have to ride? I'd be giving her time without anything on her back having seen the pictures of that wound.
Click to expand...

Ok.. thanks guys. I will do a bit more work to build up her topline. :)
 
i remember your lovely mare from both your posts and i think i said she looked very high withered, have had the same problem with ours, taking into account what you have said regarding muscle etc, building up is a good idea and try a treeless? this worked well on both my 2 years out of work Arab and the PRE but my OH didn't like riding in it ( they are better for women) he now rides in a stock saddle with a Haf pad.
 
As Shady says, a treeless might be worth considering but if you do please don't go for any of the cheap horrors on ebay. A good brand name second hand would be safer - Barefoot, Torsion, HM Phoenix to name a few.
The Nuumed shimmy pads are a good tool to have around - you can insert extra shims in the front pockets to accommodate high withers and atrophy.
 
Thanks Shady and LBM. Will look into treeless. Will also consider the Nuumed saddlecloths. We really want to try to get her out now... my other half is leaving to go abroad for six months so we not only want to enjoy going out hacking together with the remaining time that we have left, but we want to introduce her to the trails and routes with our other bomproof mare. We have done this in hand with her too, but on a selfish level we also want to enjoy riding together over the next few weeks, so that is why I thought the NuuMed may be good as a temporary measure.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if the saddle is slipping that much and that quickly then it does not fit.

I would stop riding as others have said and build up topline using in hand, groundwork, lunging and long reining.

Why don't you post a few photos of horse and saddle and ask for opinions or try to find someone who will do you a fitting from photos or the use of a fitting kit? Your horse sounds difficult to fit and you might need a little help
 
Wheels said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if the saddle is slipping that much and that quickly then it does not fit.

I would stop riding as others have said and build up topline using in hand, groundwork, lunging and long reining.

Why don't you post a few photos of horse and saddle and ask for opinions or try to find someone who will do you a fitting from photos or the use of a fitting kit? Your horse sounds difficult to fit and you might need a little help
Click to expand...

Thanks Wheels. Yeah, it clearly doesn't fit properly and I do need help... just don't have anyone here to help me and I think the saddle I have was the best fit of the bunch in the shop. But I will post some pics of saddle on horse and get opinions. Great idea.

I will do more ground work but reality is I don't really have anywhere to lunge her now. live on the side of a hill so i am very limited with what work i can do with her. The place I preciously used for lunging was a small area in my neighbour's field which is now waterlogged and unusable. Tricky.
 
If she has muscle wastage behind the shoulder and juust bellow the wither any saddle you fit will just sit in the hollows there and cause discomfort and make the wastage worse, you need a saddle that is too wide and use a shim numnah and shim the areas to replace the muscle lost it will lift the saddle up out of the hollows and help the muscle come back, I had the same problem and this is the only thing that worked 2 years on and my horse looks totally different, look on Lavinia mitchells web site she fits saddles with this concept and also sells the numnahs, you may even need a prolite for extra padding if the wastage is bad.
 
I feel your pain iv have tried nearly every saddle for my pre still yet to find one that fits dressage saddle no problem but he likes to jump so want a gp still yet to find one.
 
My girl had a very high wither and was narrow fitting but I didn't have trouble getting a saddle to fit her (just getting a narrow one was the hardest bit, but the fit was fine). However, as she aged her back started to dip and her top line declined, and her numnah, just a skinny saddle cloth to keep the panels clean would slide right back. I decided that given her funny shape, having the saddle restuffed wasn't likely to be sufficient to restore the fit so I retired her.
 
Cortez said:
Ride without a numnah. If the saddle fits properly they are not necessary, the only function they perform is to keep the saddle clean. If the saddle doesn't fit then don't ride, especially if the horse had such horrendous wounds from previous ill fitting tack.
Click to expand...

On a remedial fit where there is no muscle then a pad is a must. You CAN build up muscle of course on the lunge etc, but you can build up muscle in a well padded saddle too and actually to undo damage and build correct muscle it can sometimes be done faster with ridden work.

I will happily look at photos for basic fitting advice. I won't recommend the NuuMed pad, the shims are foam and don't help with stability instrinsically (it can work, but it's not stable in and of itself), Mattes correction pads are far superior in my mind with the best sheepskin available and stable felt shims that can be trimmed and layered to make wedges. They can help if it is mainly a saddle balance or rocking issue. On some horses the slightest instability will send it forwards, the horse probably has a forward girth groove and so may need a point strap.
 
sbloom said:
On a remedial fit where there is no muscle then a pad is a must. You CAN build up muscle of course on the lunge etc, but you can build up muscle in a well padded saddle too and actually to undo damage and build correct muscle it can sometimes be done faster with ridden work.

I will happily look at photos for basic fitting advice. I won't recommend the NuuMed pad, the shims are foam and don't help with stability instrinsically (it can work, but it's not stable in and of itself), Mattes correction pads are far superior in my mind with the best sheepskin available and stable felt shims that can be trimmed and layered to make wedges. They can help if it is mainly a saddle balance or rocking issue. On some horses the slightest instability will send it forwards, the horse probably has a forward girth groove and so may need a point strap.
Click to expand...

all of this!

with muscle wastage or just plain no muscle ie in a youngster i prefer to fit get slightly too wide saddle and pad, so the horse has room to develop.
check the fit weekly and remove pads/swap for thinner pads as needed.
 
What I should add is that there are some backs that definitely need in hand work before you can put a saddle on, but, especially with alight and/or able rider, ridden work, with a therapeutic pad and suitable saddle, can be very valuable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top