Saddle to Australia, via UK friend, risks?

ester

ester

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Hi all,

a colleagues is selling an ideal Nyala on preloved.
A lady from Aus has contacted, will pay full asking price by bank transfer, for saddle to be sent to a friend she has in the UK, who will foward it to her in Aus.
We are trying to work out what, if any the risks are, I guess she could do a charge back with the bank? But otherwise I thought I would put it to the knowledge of HHO!
(It surprised friend initially presuming they had saddles in Aus but I think actually they don't have masses to choose from?)

Thanks!
 
In this situation i'd ask for the UK based person to 'buy' on behalf of the Aus friend and they can sort monies and posting out between themselves. The UK person can then bank transfer or pay cash.
 
I've done similar in the past though it was eventually sent to Germany ;) My arrangement was as LP suggested, the UK based friend paid and I sent it to them.
 
ester said:
Hi all,

a colleagues is selling an ideal Nyala on preloved.
A lady from Aus has contacted, will pay full asking price by bank transfer, for saddle to be sent to a friend she has in the UK, who will foward it to her in Aus.
We are trying to work out what, if any the risks are, I guess she could do a charge back with the bank? But otherwise I thought I would put it to the knowledge of HHO!
(It surprised friend initially presuming they had saddles in Aus but I think actually they don't have masses to choose from?)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I had someone bidding on my GFS saddle in August last year, the buyer paid the saddle value and for Hermes to collect it and take to a drop off point in London to then be forward over to China. She gave me good feedback and such so I guess it can work.



Make sure you photo the saddle from a few angles and saddle box including bubble wrap to prove you protected it well, and the condition of the box when it left you. Get this friend to organise shipping from you to her so it is her head on the plate not your,s and obviously make sure you money clears.

I omitted to restrict who bid on the GFS saddle and only found out when the buyer sent this.

Note Note to seller
Pls make sure to packet it well and put the tracking number on after shipping out. Pls put some light foam to protect it well in order to avoid being worn during the long travel. And don't make its weight become too heavier. As the address I left is a transit company, and after there it will be shipped to me (China) without opening. And they will charge me by its weight. Thank you very much for your hard work! Thanks!
 
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I would not accept a Bank Transfer. Even a Paypal payment would need to be checked directly via the seller account (and they can be reversed).

But, another problem besides the payment issues raised above, is would it even be allowed into the country? I think leather is on the prohibited/restricted lists. Aussie has very strict Customs and a far as I am aware leather would be an issue.

Either way, it would need to be declared to Quarantine on arrival. Customs officers will examine it and if they are willing to allow it into the country I believe they will want immediate payment for it to be taken away and fumigated, and could actually confiscate it.

I could of course be wrong in some parts as I'm not totally up to date with their import regs but a google search will help and give you more/better info.

Do let us know how this sale progresses!
 
I sent a WOW to Australia via a friend in Devon. I figured it was paid for (Paypal) and once it left the country it was unlikely to be returned! Make it clear that acceptance of the saddle is BEFORE it leaves the country, i.e. the friend must check it over and accept it.
 
There would be no risks to you as the seller, the risk would be hers that you could potentially not send the saddle and there wouldn't be anything buyer could do about it. Buyer can't do a charge back with the bank, she's willingly given you the money. Even if you were a scammer she'd have a hard time getting the bank to do anything about it. Bank transfer is a great way to accept payment if you're the seller, I've sold lots of things this way and I've paid for lots of things by cheque, which is equally risky from a buyers perspective. Most people are honest. I've only ever had a problem once with a scammer and that was in the early days of ebay. Not everyone is paranoid and wanting to pay for everything with paypal, if buyer is happy with bank transfer then go for it. Since you're not a scammer there won't be a problem for either of you.

ETA: just read the nonsense about import regs, that's not your problem ester, it's the buyers problem.

Also, with a bank transfer, unlike paypal, she can't claim a return for any reason, or a refund for not receiving it, or for courier damage, either. It would be purely your decision whether to accept a return or not (no legal need for you to accept a return at all for any reason), and if you did accept a return to refund the money only if you were happy with the state the item was returned in. Unlike paypal transactions where they'd have their opinion on the matter and you could potentially be scammed by a dishonest buyer. If she wants tracking or insurance in case of courier loss/damage, she can pay the increased postage cost for that. Essentially, once buyer has paid and you've sent it (get proof of posting), you're not legally responsible for anything that happens to the saddle after that.

YCBM acceptance of the saddle is when buyer decides to pay for it, any trial or viewing with option to return, after payment, is at sellers discretion.
 
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DappleDown said:
I would not accept a Bank Transfer. Even a Paypal payment would need to be checked directly via the seller account (and they can be reversed).

But, another problem besides the payment issues raised above, is would it even be allowed into the country? I think leather is on the prohibited/restricted lists. Aussie has very strict Customs and a far as I am aware leather would be an issue.

Either way, it would need to be declared to Quarantine on arrival. Customs officers will examine it and if they are willing to allow it into the country I believe they will want immediate payment for it to be taken away and fumigated, and could actually confiscate it.

I could of course be wrong in some parts as I'm not totally up to date with their import regs but a google search will help and give you more/better info.

Do let us know how this sale progresses!
Click to expand...

^ all these risks would lie with the buyer though. The seller would have done her bit by supplying to the friend in the UK ;)
 
The restrictions situation is definitely the buyers issue!

Re bank transfer/paypal, given paypals like to side with purchasers I would have thought that BT had less risk for a seller?

I don't think UK friend is that close so cash not doable.
She has taken photos of every angle, and has said that she wants buyer to be happy with it so to get her friend to check it before sending (after another recent case where they didn't and it wasn't right that was posted about).

She isn't that comfortable with it but the aus lady has been pestering her for months about this saddle, and it obviously hasn't been sold to anyone else in the meantime.

But that as it is a bit unusual I thought the lovely forum might know of pitfalls we won't have thought about!
 
Can she take payment by cheque and wait for it to clear before sending? I don't believe there is any way to recall money paid by cheque? She could also insist on PayPal friends and family, when there is no buyer protection.
 
The main thing to be aware of is the scams, whereby buyer sends too much money, asking your friend to return the surplus.
Then, it manifests that the money sent was fraudulent,so friend maybe out of pocket if she returns the additional sum and whole amount were taken from her because sender had been a fraud.
So, just be aware of that.
 
Cheques can have a stop put on them for upto 10 days after being paid in, so a cheque can "clear" in 3-4 days into the sellers account (though it shows as "money out" from the buyers account from day 1), but it can still be stopped and buyer refunded by bank for upto 10 days.

Bank transfer is almost instant, once the money is in sellers account there's basically nothing buyer can do, whatever happens. Risk is all with the buyer.

Honestly Ester there's no scam here, just a trusting buyer wanting a straightforward sale. Maybe they don't have a paypal account, maybe they realize seller won't want to take the paypal risk if selling overseas/having 2 parties involved (buyer and buyers friend). Either way, there's no need to make this complicated. Buyers like this are wonderful, just get on and sell to her before she changes her mind and buys from someone else.
 
Spottyappy said:
The main thing to be aware of is the scams, whereby buyer sends too much money, asking your friend to return the surplus.
Then, it manifests that the money sent was fraudulent,so friend maybe out of pocket if she returns the additional sum and whole amount were taken from her because sender had been a fraud.
So, just be aware of that.
Click to expand...

This. Money laundering would be the only potential scam. So don't accept any nonsense stories about having "accidentally" transferred the wrong amount and can you return the surplus as a cheque to their friend or whatever. If that happens transfer the whole lot back where it came from and refuse to have anything more to do with the buyer.
 
ester said:
The restrictions situation is definitely the buyers issue!
Click to expand...

True.

But if the saddle is withheld or confiscated the buyer might want their money back (another Custom's option is it stays in customs for collection prior to the return journey to the UK).

So, for example, 'I've got no saddle, it will be collected by my friend who will return it to the seller once they have done the return journey and are back in the UK. I want my money back'.

And they can reverse the payment at almost any point.

Am just pointing out another potential problem.

Assuming of course this isn't the 'over payment scam' or some other con.

*Unfortunately bank transfers can also be problematic. Monies can show as paid but not cleared and therefore were never in the account (ask the bank for more info re this).
 
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You can't - with bank transfer once it is in your account it cannot be 'recalled' theres no such thing.

If i'm selling i always ask for bank transfer, i dont have paypal and have seen so many people sell stuff that was as described and then loose out when paypal decide it was miss sold!
 
ester said:
how do they reverse payment?
Click to expand...

Paypal.

The others I'm mentioning are the dud chq overpayment and the fake bank transfer confirmation scams. Am only pointing out 'poooosssible' pitfalls, as requested. :)

Another point to bear in mind - if this buyer is genuine and in Aussie, the distance buying/selling rules there may, and prob do, differ from the UK's.

Good luck.
 
but we aren't talking paypal we are talking direct bank transfer, there has been no suggestion that paypal would be used. Hence asking for clarification of how they are reversing that payment.

As stated above they can't so from a sellers perspective that would seem pretty safe.
 
ester said:
but we aren't talking paypal we are talking direct bank transfer, there has been no suggestion that paypal would be used. Hence asking for clarification of how they are reversing that payment.

As stated above they can't so from a sellers perspective that would seem pretty safe.
Click to expand...

Ah well, glad we got that cleared up. :thumbup:
Trust it all goes well, whatever they decide.
 
Tanned leather goods are accepted into Australia without any special restrictions, but if the customs officer on duty knows that a saddle can have a wooden tree, there might be complications.
http://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/...ping/can-i-bring-leather-fur-horns-bones-back

The Aussie who wants the saddle will be considered the "importer", and be responsible for import documentation, quarantining, payment of import duties, and so on, regardless of whether your colleague ships it directly or if it the UK friend who ships it.

This thread, on an Aussie forum, might be useful.
https://www.horseyard.com.au/forum/1-general-horse-topics/60747-buying-saddles-from-overseas

I would go for the idea making the sale to the Aussie's friend in the UK. This should count as a private sale between two people in the UK. Bank transfer or cash, whichever your colleague can negotiate.

If your colleague decides to make the sale between the colleague and the Australian, I don't know if the sale would automatically be governed by English law... Distance selling guidelines I have found are more geared to professional traders, not to occasional private sellers. It might be worthwhile having some correspondence between your colleague and the buyer to confirm all the conditions, including that any disputes be governed by English law and to be settled in an court near to where your colleague lives.
 
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Distance selling regs are irrelevant too, as the seller is not a business. Those regs don't apply to private individuals.

Whilst I'm not a lawyer, find I hard to believe that a UK based non-business seller could be held somehow accountable under Australian selling laws, it makes no sense.
 
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IMO EBay and PayPal have a lot to answer for. They've really muddied the waters with their own extra rules, confusing peoples understanding of uk law rights/responsibilities and where the risk lies, with the sale of second-hand goods from private individuals outside of eBay or PayPal .

As a general rule:

If you're selling make sure you have the money, by a method which can't be cancelled, before posting the goods. Once you've posted it you're no longer responsible for it. Though as the person who booked the courier, it would be nice if you contacted them to chase up any refund due to the buyer if the item goes missing, but you're not obliged to if you don't want to.

If you're buying don't buy from anybody who gives you bad vibes, don't pay more than you're willing to risk losing, and if you want the item covered for loss/damage by couriers then be prepared to pay that insurance cost yourself instead of asking for the cheapest postage. Don't expect the private individual to give customer service like a business would, because they're not a business and you're not a customer, you're just 2 people who have agreed to exchange money for items. Understand that buying second hand unseen from random strangers is a gamble, its not risk-free, and that's partly why the goods are cheaper. If you "win" you get a bargain (compared to shop price), if you "lose" (eg through item going missing/being damaged/scammer not sending it) you get nothing, which includes not getting your money back.
 
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SS and others thanks for your help, I sent her this thread, we are just hoping the box my chair comes in tomorrow might work ;)
 
Presumably the buyer would have done her homework, because it is quite a risk importing used leather goods! Bank Transfer is the most reliable method, and she should have the money safe in her bank account before sending. After sending and completing the customs declaration, it's actually up to the buyer to do what is necessary to receive the saddle.

This includes paying duty on the saddle if it was sold for over $1000AUD, and having the saddle irradiated. All this documentation is sent to the buyer as soon as the saddle lands in Australia. There it will be held until the seller pays duty and/or the irradiation fees. If she's done her research she would know that there is a risk with irradiation, it can sometimes destroy leather (girth points etc.). However none of this should reflect back on the seller, as she has done her part by receiving payment and sending the saddle off. I do agree with taking detailed photos of the condition of the saddle and packaging, so any accusations can be dealt with swiftly. I suspect she is going through a friend in the UK so the customs declaration is properly filled in, and perhaps even to dodge import tax fee (this can be done by "rewording" the descriptions), and also if the saddle is sent as a "gift" the value can be written as under $1000AUD.

Ideals are not super common in Australia, so I'm not surprised the buyer is looking overseas. I don't think I've ever seen a Nyala for sale here or even mentioned! Best of luck to your colleague :)
 
Northern said:
Presumably the buyer would have done her homework, because it is quite a risk importing used leather goods! Bank Transfer is the most reliable method, and she should have the money safe in her bank account before sending. After sending and completing the customs declaration, it's actually up to the buyer to do what is necessary to receive the saddle.

This includes paying duty on the saddle if it was sold for over $1000AUD, and having the saddle irradiated. All this documentation is sent to the buyer as soon as the saddle lands in Australia. There it will be held until the seller pays duty and/or the irradiation fees. If she's done her research she would know that there is a risk with irradiation, it can sometimes destroy leather (girth points etc.). However none of this should reflect back on the seller, as she has done her part by receiving payment and sending the saddle off. I do agree with taking detailed photos of the condition of the saddle and packaging, so any accusations can be dealt with swiftly. I suspect she is going through a friend in the UK so the customs declaration is properly filled in, and perhaps even to dodge import tax fee (this can be done by "rewording" the descriptions), and also if the saddle is sent as a "gift" the value can be written as under $1000AUD.

Ideals are not super common in Australia, so I'm not surprised the buyer is looking overseas. I don't think I've ever seen a Nyala for sale here or even mentioned! Best of luck to your colleague :)
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This, I'm not surprised the buyer is looking to the UK for a saddle. If they have a good idea that is the saddle that they want and will fit. Some brands are very hard to get in Australia.
I was going to buy a saddle from the UK a couple of years ago, but decided not to chance it with the fumigation or irradiation that customs would perform. ( they couldn't tell me which method they would use ).
I quite often buy other items of tack from the UK, as the same ( if I can find it here ) is a lot more expensive, even with postage costs factored in.
Kx
 
I've sent Wow saddle parts to the USA and Australia/NZ, the risk is no different to sending within the UK or Europe. In this case, from the sellers point of view she is only sending the saddle to an address within the UK anyway. If the money is sent by bank transfer or paypal family and friends, there's no risk to the seller.
 
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