ycbm
Overwhelmed
Great post DD.
Safe rider weight for a 3 year old?
- Thread starter Stormynight
- Start date
Great post DD.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
You can ruin a horse of any age quite easily! One I bought several years ago had been backed badly at 4 and a half (by a pro) and declared dangerous on return home. So they turned her away to mature. I bought a terrified 5 year old, who took 4 hours to load, panicked upon going into canter and wouldn't stop (I just sat there quietly until she got tired!) and had a very long list of other issues! Sweetest little thing though, went on to be a games pony and to do therapy days for children.
Everyone has their own opinions and does things their own way. Yet....
I know I produce happy horses who are free to express their personalities and communicate with me when they need something or something is wrong. In return, they are reliable friends who do their best at all times. They have seen my children born and I have seen them watch over these human foals as part of their herd. Rarely lame, they have turned their hooves to whatever we have wanted to do. I have done dressage with the horse who enjoyed it, and jumped the one who liked that. It has always been fun, and when my pony slipped and fell one summer, she twisted and threw me clear, at her own expense (her back was sore for many weeks).
None of that is because they were backed at any particular age.
I have seen horses backed later go nuts, and horses backed earlier do fine. I have helped friends and watched others. It has far more to do with WHO is doing the backing, than when. You can rush a 6 year old just as much as a younger horse. And you can put too much weight on a horse at any age, or ask them to do too much work without building the fitness first.
Everyone has their own opinions and does things their own way. Yet....
I know I produce happy horses who are free to express their personalities and communicate with me when they need something or something is wrong. In return, they are reliable friends who do their best at all times. They have seen my children born and I have seen them watch over these human foals as part of their herd. Rarely lame, they have turned their hooves to whatever we have wanted to do. I have done dressage with the horse who enjoyed it, and jumped the one who liked that. It has always been fun, and when my pony slipped and fell one summer, she twisted and threw me clear, at her own expense (her back was sore for many weeks).
None of that is because they were backed at any particular age.
I have seen horses backed later go nuts, and horses backed earlier do fine. I have helped friends and watched others. It has far more to do with WHO is doing the backing, than when. You can rush a 6 year old just as much as a younger horse. And you can put too much weight on a horse at any age, or ask them to do too much work without building the fitness first.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
And another.
Stormynight
Well-Known Member
Interesting discussion, I had a feeling this may be opening a can of worms!
To clarify, this boy was broken to ride in Ireland a couple of months ago, so that part is out of my hands entirely. He long reins beautifully, and he’s a brave chap who’s willing and has a reasonable idea of the basics. In terms of ridden work, I’m looking at what many here are recommending - 10-15mins at walk maybe once or twice a week at most.
Is 12% a realistic figure given that he’s a short backed cob with good bone? That means his max, if the weight tape is reasonably accurate, is <7st?
To clarify, this boy was broken to ride in Ireland a couple of months ago, so that part is out of my hands entirely. He long reins beautifully, and he’s a brave chap who’s willing and has a reasonable idea of the basics. In terms of ridden work, I’m looking at what many here are recommending - 10-15mins at walk maybe once or twice a week at most.
Is 12% a realistic figure given that he’s a short backed cob with good bone? That means his max, if the weight tape is reasonably accurate, is <7st?
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I wouldn't, personally, put more than 15% including tack on a three year old. And I'd prefer it to be more like 12.5% max. But that's a figure of my own, I didn't get it from anywhere else. I'm 12.5% of the three year old I'm backing at the moment, and if I chose or was inept enough, I could seriously unbalance him with my weight.
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Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The two most unsound horses I have owed where started at five and six I won’t buy late started horses now .
windand rain
Well-Known Member
I also think most are broken in a school on a surface and endless circles are not an option Hacking out with a light weight rider is ok. Personally I think the lunging of anything under 5 is more harmful than a happy hack out both for the mind and the body
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
I don't think it is good for them at any age.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
I've deliberately moved my youngster to a yard she can be out 24/7, that doesnt have a school so I wont be tempted to be lazy and use it.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Lunging is a much misunderstood and often improperly used exercise that can be of immense benefit in helping horses to find rhythm, balance, confidence and strength, particularly when they are just starting out. Overdone, just like any exercise, it can be misused, but how, exactly, do you think it is not good?
Blazingsaddles
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Lungeing correctly is indispensable when training the young horse.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
This isn't true, because I have seen it dispensed with with many horses which have all turned out fine.
I dislike seeing horses of any age, but particularly young ones, sent round in circles that seldom measure even fifteen metres in diameter.
Chinchilla
...
Following with interest.
DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
I wouldn't take a youngster out hacking before backing and ensuring good control and response to commands in the school. In the same way as I really dislike long reining in roads. It's unfair on other road users if you don't have a certain level of control if something goes wrong. A 'happy hack' sounds lovely and idealistic, but you have to be a bit pragmatic.
I also don't see what is intrinsically wrong with a school surface? As opposed to tarmac, concrete, stone, boggy mud, which is what a young horse will spend the majority of their time on.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I agree again. Left right, stop start, move over and stand still are all prerequisites before I would take any horse out on the road.
There also seems to be a big assumption by some posters that we all have good hacking buddies and suitable hacking available.
It's the endless circles many people do which I think is the problem with both schooling and lunging. I am riding my 3 year old only in the school at that moment because my hacking is a tough physical ask with the hills. But I have a 30x40 with plenty of room to move around, and fall in on a circle, as babies do, without the circle getting tiny.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
I have read the research on the use of the lunge and how it damages the legs/joints, especially of young horses. It was published some time ago now (10 years ago or thereabouts). I can't find the research now (which is really annoying!). But this talks about it: http://www.scienceofmotion.com/documents/lungeing101.pdf
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Once again, this is about judicial use of any exercise. It's about not overdoing things, knowing how, and how much, to do something. Just blanket condemning an extremely useful tool based on a study that is looking for stressors and doesn't replicate real life situations is foolish.
Yes, lunging can be done badly - and unfortunately very often is - but then it isn't routinely taught, and is a skill that takes a lot to learn. Long reining is another skill that is all too often badly and misguidedly performed, but that is no reason to rubbish it out of hand.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Human bones don't fuse until around the age of 16/17. I know it isn't quite the same as carrying weight but it would be daft to suggest that humans don't do any exercise until they reach bone maturity.
If you have a 3 year old that is physically and mentally mature enough to be lightly backed and maybe hacked around the lanes once or twice a week, personally I have absolutely no issues with that. For me, I still like to then turn them away over winter.
I've never seen any evidence that light backing/light work as a 3 year old has any long term negative effects. However, if we are talking about ploughing straight in to jumping/schoolwork then that's a whole different matter.
If you have a 3 year old that is physically and mentally mature enough to be lightly backed and maybe hacked around the lanes once or twice a week, personally I have absolutely no issues with that. For me, I still like to then turn them away over winter.
I've never seen any evidence that light backing/light work as a 3 year old has any long term negative effects. However, if we are talking about ploughing straight in to jumping/schoolwork then that's a whole different matter.
Stormynight
Well-Known Member
It’s an interesting topic, for sure, with some interesting replies here. He’s being kept at a yard with no school for the foreseeable, so schooling and lunging aren’t on the agenda to be honest.
He’ll do long reining and in-hand stuff up until winter, but I’m guessing me at 10.5st might be pushing it ridden wise... rabbit food diet, here I come!
He’ll do long reining and in-hand stuff up until winter, but I’m guessing me at 10.5st might be pushing it ridden wise... rabbit food diet, here I come!
maya2008
Well-Known Member
I backed a 13.2hh pony at about 8.5 stone. She is still here and still fine. One of my others was backed at 3 by someone of similar weight. I wouldn't have put 10.5 stone on either of them until later.