Safety mad??

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Jazzy B

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Reading some of the posts over the last few days made me wonder re: hi viz, hats, back protectors have we got completely health and safety mad?? 30 odd years ago, most people didn't ride with a hat and I remember when I started riding back protectors were very much in the early stages and were only really used for jumping if at all. Do you think its a sign of the times we live in or do you think the outside world is more dangerous than it used to be i.e hacking - I mean I remember when you got hear a car miles away, now they literally creep up on you! Or do you think as a generation we have a higher level of self preservation?
 
I think certain members of this forum can be rather hysterical.:o

I wear Hi Viz and I'd rather other people did to - but that's my choice and personal opinion.

I didn't wear a hat when I was 18, I fell off, hit my head and went blind for a while. So I wear a hat now.

I don't have the right to browbeat anyone (except my husband and child:D) into making the same choices as me.

I imagine most of those who shout the loudest on here about such things only do so from their armchairs anyway.:p
 
I think hacking is definitely more dangerous, roads are busier and faster than they were years ago and there are more houses springing up where there was countryside. I also think that people are less aware of horses, in days gone by when most people had working horses or knew someone who had they would be aware of the dangers and what spooked horses. Nowadays they don't seem to have a clue! In that respect I belive that hi-viz is a godsend at making us more visible.

I also used to ride a point to pointer with an incredible buck and my hat flew off every time he bucked as it never had a chinstrap. Today we have the technology to make hats and body protectors with greater safety for the rider, which is great.

I do think though that we are possibly more fearful about riding which is a great shame, things like jumping bareback without reins, doing jumping exercises over grids etc used to be great fun, but probably not allowed in today's health and safety culture.

Like all things it is about finding a balance, making sure we are protected enough, but not being namby pamby about things either.
 
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my daughter went to a riding school - they wouldn't do round the world or scissors because they are not insured to do so and its dangerous. I thought that was very sad.
 
I'm a bit fed up of it all to be honest. No one seems to learn any common sense and how to look after themselves any more. So much wrapping everyone up in cotton wool sometimes has a negative effect. Signs everywhere, caution steps. Beware wet floor etc etc. What happened to look where your going. Riding hats, hi Viz, back protectors, all good ideas but advice is one thing, crusades are another. I'm not an idiot, I've not got to my age working with horses all my life without learning how to stay in one piece. None of these items are any use unless you can think fast and make the right decisions to stay safe.
This whole subject rattles me and I've just deleted lots of my thoughts as I know they will offend plenty, so I'll get out quickly.
 
Most of the riding schools around here have closed down and the old instructors only teach you on your own horse now.

All down to insurance and liability issues.
 
Miss Bean said:
Reading some of the posts over the last few days made me wonder re: hi viz, hats, back protectors have we got completely health and safety mad?? 30 odd years ago, most people didn't ride with a hat and I remember when I started riding back protectors were very much in the early stages and were only really used for jumping if at all. Do you think its a sign of the times we live in or do you think the outside world is more dangerous than it used to be i.e hacking - I mean I remember when you got hear a car miles away, now they literally creep up on you! Or do you think as a generation we have a higher level of self preservation?
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I think we can get a little OTT about health and safety sometimes however who would ever want to be in a position where they had an accident that could have been prevented or been better protected because they did not do all they could to remain safe...
I firmly believe people should have the right to decide for themselves (excluding children) whether or not they should wear a hat and/or body protector... you know the risks when you get on the horse and should not be bullied if you choose not to wear a hat or body protector...
I personally am happy to ride with no hat though I do ride my TB in a hat and I wont wear a body protector as I find it interfears with my riding...
If I fell off and hurt myself I would only have myself to blame!
I think anyone hacking out should put Hi Viz on their horse as it gives drivers extra time to see you and you could be putting your horse at higher risk of an accident if you don't have it on them... although I have had a horse before who hated anything Hi Viz and would rear until it went away! so I couldn't hack him in anything Hi Viz.
 
The number of cars and their speed capabilities have doubled or trebled in the last 30 years, as have the soundproofing and gadgets which mean drivers feel insulated and unconnected with the world they are driving through. And sad to say, the country has become more selfish and rights-driven. Plus the fact that drivers now cannot remember a time when horses were used as working animals on the streets and the number of riding schools has declined.

All of the above means that roads are a much more dangerous place to ride than they were 30 years ago and whereas then hats were a help if you fell off if they stayed on, now they can make a real difference.

So although I would not wish riders to be forced to wear high viz, as I think it would be the thin end of a wedge of getting horses off the roads altogether, and unless it was compulsory for walkers and cyclists too it would be unfair, I do think 3rd party insurance should be compulsory and I dont personaly ever ride on a road without hi viz. If only because if I or my beloved pony get squashed I would quite like the driver to face the consequences and not be able to claim they 'didnt see me'.
 
Well when I started riding all this safety gear was not even thought of, it was ages before I actually owned a riding hat, but looking at the standard of riding and horsemanship rapidly going down hill, these days, I suppose all this safety gear is more neccessary now, the small local riding schools have been taken over by the colleges, and of course the college horses all have to be pretty steady, in case someone falls off and makes a claim, so many riders have not needed 'stickability' skills, or are even taught how to fall to aviod damage, oh yes its a changing world, but in some ways I very much doubt if its progress
 
I think some things should ALWAYS be in place. Hats for definate and appropriate footwear.

I saw a girl just yesterday in the New Forest riding a little pony with no riding hat, shorts and strappy top trying to encourage it to jump a ditch Which the pony was having none of! Thought it was very irresponsible!!
 
vieshot said:
I think some things should ALWAYS be in place. Hats for definate and appropriate footwear.

I saw a girl just yesterday in the New Forest riding a little pony with no riding hat, shorts and strappy top trying to encourage it to jump a ditch Which the pony was having none of! Thought it was very irresponsible!!
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God that would have been me 20 odd years ago!:eek:
 
I don't think we go too far. If I can prevent a bump or bruise (I know nothing will prevent death, if that's what's going to happen) but if I can remain pain free, then I'm all for it! I personally get everything I can afford.

I think it will have gone too far when they make some kind of modern suit of armour. We're only horse riding, not going into battle :P

Just a thought...why don't some of you more experienced guys and gals help us out, instead of moaning about the terrible horse care. Sometimes, the best knowledge isn't read in books, but passed through word of mouth.
 
Roads are definitely busier - the amount of cars on the road has exploaded

But also when I was young most people in the countryside had some connection with horses - even if they didn't ride themselves someone in the family had at somepoint being a horse person. Now it seems that a lot of drivers have absolutely no awareness of horses and how they react. They can drive past happily tooting, thinking they are being friendly!!!

So for my money, back protector and hi-viz, though I do agree maybe when things are relatively safe it is a good idea to let people develop a little bit of judgement by trial and error.
 
ribbons said:
I'm a bit fed up of it all to be honest. No one seems to learn any common sense and how to look after themselves any more. So much wrapping everyone up in cotton wool sometimes has a negative effect. Signs everywhere, caution steps. Beware wet floor etc etc. What happened to look where your going. Riding hats, hi Viz, back protectors, all good ideas but advice is one thing, crusades are another. I'm not an idiot, I've not got to my age working with horses all my life without learning how to stay in one piece. None of these items are any use unless you can think fast and make the right decisions to stay safe.
This whole subject rattles me and I've just deleted lots of my thoughts as I know they will offend plenty, so I'll get out quickly.
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well said, unfortunately there are no certificates for 'common sense' :D
 
I do think its very sad that kids can no longer walk on a riding school yard, tack up a pony, muck out, groom because "they are not covered by insurance"
 
As far as around the world etc goes, no, you're not supposed to do it any more as an instructor.
I chose to use commonsense on this and still let kids do it in my lessons until one slid off the (almost sleeping) pony onto the indoor school surface. I put my hands out to catch them and caught them on the arm. When the child came to the ground (on their feet) they stumbled and fell over onto their backside. No injuries, no drama.

After going home and telling their non-horsey mother about the incident, they decided to make a formal complaint about me 'trying to injure the child' and 'putting my hands on the child' as I tried to stop them sliding off (it was their arm I touched).

Needless to say I was v uspset about the whole incident, having never been complained about before or since.

I don't do round the world/bareback etc in lessons anymore. Not worth it.

IMO it's the blame culture that we live in which is to blame for a lot of the OTT health and safety.
 
I do think it's a shame that in this day and age of health and safety and liability that kids don't get the same riding school experience as when I was a kid (makes me sounds old!!)

We were taught to jump with no stirrups and no reins, to rely on your own seat and :eek: we galloped in open spaces and were taught how to do so.

Not just how to sit there and steer round the school (didn't even have one!)but how to really cope in the big wide world, and kids just don't get that these days due to this culture we live in. :(
 
patterdale said:
As far as around the world etc goes, no, you're not supposed to do it any more as an instructor.
I chose to use commonsense on this and still let kids do it in my lessons until one slid off the (almost sleeping) pony onto the indoor school surface. I put my hands out to catch them and caught them on the arm. When the child came to the ground (on their feet) they stumbled and fell over onto their backside. No injuries, no drama.

After going home and telling their non-horsey mother about the incident, they decided to make a formal complaint about me 'trying to injure the child' and 'putting my hands on the child' as I tried to stop them sliding off (it was their arm I touched).

Needless to say I was v uspset about the whole incident, having never been complained about before or since.

I don't do round the world/bareback etc in lessons anymore. Not worth it.

IMO it's the blame culture that we live in which is to blame for a lot of the OTT health and safety.
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Things like that make me really cross.
There was a girl at school who used to purposefully touch the teachers and get them in trouble (Brush past their hand, things like that) it's stupid, because the teachers got told off more than once.

Why aren't kids allowed to have fun anymore? Probably why 99% of them are hyperactive brats.

@Feathered - It's not just kids! We've had a woman join us recently who has never cantered outside of a school. She thought it was brilliant and in her own words "It's great not having to stop because of corners!" She had so much fun cantering across the fields.
 
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joeanne said:
God that would have been me 20 odd years ago!:eek:
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^^ me too, but maybe not 20 odd years ago sorry joeanne 10742018 :o

Maybe if there weren't so many health and safety regs in place and such a huge "blame culture" people would able to develop there riding skills and horsemanship. I'm really struggling with introducing my daughter to horses as I didn't really want to go and buy her one - but its quite hard to keep her interest at the local riding school as the lessons are "dull"!!!
 
Interesting thread, I personally think the UK as a country has been hanging out with America for too long and has such developed a bit of a blame culture from them, the masters of suing for any old reason! Lol and interesting point made re standards of riding vs excessive safety wear...it's a bit of a catch 22 though isn't it because by doing the 'riskier' stuff ie bareback, jumping with no stirrups/reins, around the world etc one gains a much better seat and general ability, but this isn't allowed without a H&S minefield, or being bundled up to the eyeballs in protective gear which hinders the natural development of such ability IMO. I shall read the rest of this thread with interest.
 
Great thread. I can remember doing 'round the world' and 'scissors' at the riding school (can't remember what scissors were now tho) - that must be my age
 
What people chose to do of their own accord with respect to their own safety is an entirely different matter to what safety considerations are imposed to limit the liability of employers, trainers, etc for those under their care.

If individuals chose not to wear perfectly comfortable, cheap and easily available safety gear, all of which makes a dangerous sport less dangerous, then it's their choice but it is a silly one. Heads and spinal columns were not hardier 40 years ago than they are now, they break just as easily now as they did then.

As for the liability of employers, trainers, etc. there is always a price to be paid for greater accountability and that is more limits on reasonable activities. The good old days included no labour protection laws, child labour, no hazardous pay or no employee responsibility and no compensation for accidents while in the care of others. Next time your employer/trainer makes you do something totally stupid and you get seriously injured you can always refrain from accepting any compensation - no one is forcing it on you!
 
I've just Googled the scissors and watched a video. I know now why I don't remember them - it's because I know I would never have been able to do them!
 
Kids can get the chance to ride without reins, round the world etc. Find somewhere that does vaulting.
 
Hats and body protectors are peoples own choice. I can't stand people wearing a hat and not doing it up though - pointless, and under 14 is the law.

However hi viz also protects your horse and others on roads etc so I think it's very important. I didn't use to hi viz but horse was. When youngster goes out with me we will both be vizzed
 
I know some threads get right on my nerves. I wear a hat, I wear hi viz, I take my own safety seriously. I wont ride with someone not wearing a hat. Apart from that, I really dont care who does or doesnt want to take care of themselves, as long as it doesnt impact on anyone else. Mainly me.
I agree with the 'hysterical' and 'crusades' comments, it gets tiresome.
 
OP, I think you're absolutely right. I met a rider on an aged white pony the other day on a bridlepath. I know the yard they are at and there is no roadwork involved. They had a helper with them on the ground, also in hi-viz head to toe, when they saw me coming on my horse, they literally froze to the spot. As I passed them in walk, I asked them if they were ok, and they replied that they "weren't sure what their horse would do if it met another horse". Knowing the horse in question, never in its 22 years has it been known to lose a rider, including the last several years they have had it. IMHO people like this are honstly quite bad for all but the most saintly of horses.

Further on I passed a house which borders the bridleway. The "man of the house" came out, all NIMBY and self righteous, and asked me "Not to trot past his house (I was walking) in case it frightened his children". I have never seen his children outdoors but I do occasionally see their pale faces pressed against the window as I ride past.

I blame the parents.
 
I think it's a mixture of things

- Roads are undoubtedly more dangerous. There's more cars and they've got bigger, heavier and more powerful. Driving standards certainly haven't improved, people are less courteous than they used to be.

- Safety gear is far more effective than it used to be and is therefore more worth wearing. Hats can be relied upon to stay on and offer good protection, BPs cover more of you and protect you better but are far easier to ride in. Hi vis is increasingly varied and comfortable, probably new materials are making it more effective

- We also live in a more risk adverse society. In some ways this is good (people wearing hi vis hats and BPs to ride on roads) and in some ways bad (lack of bareback riding, no helping at riding schools etc). The fear of being sued seems to be a major issue, certainly there are people out there looking for a chance to make some money from compensation.

- People are too risk aware to take advantage of all the things that have been done to improve safety. There seem to be a lot of people that don't take the view of I will protect myself as best I can and then I will go and do what I want.

- Maybe people are better informed but in a not particularly good way? All those medical dramas and documentaries, scary stories in newspapers. Huge numbers of posts on here from people begging others to wear hats/BPs/gloves/boots/hivis to avoid a repeat of the accident they/somebody they know has just had
 
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