Sale agreement if being paid in installments? Suggestions for wording pls?

catembi

catembi

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I own Adrian, a 9 year old ISH with EPSM. I paid £8,500 for him in 2007 & we started off well at BS & BD, but then his performance tailed off & to cut a long story short, after 18 months of investigations involving 2 vet practices, Rossdales, every alternative therapy you can think of & my own investigations, it transpired that he had EPSM.

He went on loan nearly a year ago to a trekking centre on the other side of the country & is doing really well there as plodding about all day is perfect for an EPSM horse. I have paid his insurance for the year at £41 per month. Now that the year is nearly up, I have asked the trekking centre owner if she would like to buy him for £1,200 & the answer was yes - when I can get the money together.

The thing is, I could do with not paying £41 per month for someone else to make money out of my horse. I daren't not insure him as I would hate to get a phone call in the night saying he was down with colic etc & have to face either £££££££££££££ or PTS. I was thinking about doing a sale ag so that he is legally hers, & accepting payment at £50 or £100 pm.

I **fully** accept that I might not see a penny of it, but I would rather remove the liability from myself of paying the insurance. However, in order to make a valid contract, you need offer, acceptance & consideration - with the consideration being the money for him.

Would I be better off selling him to her for £1, then relying on her good will to pay me? I suppose that in my head, I've already written off the £8.5k. I also have Trev the ex racer & my ancient mare to look after, & TBH that's enough horses for my pocket & my paddocks, plus Adrian & Trev hate each other, & Adrian needs a special diet. Therefore I wouldn't really want him back.

This sounds really horrible & dispassionate, but I've cried buckets over Adrian in the past, spent around £6.5k trying to find out what was wrong with me despite the vets saying it was my imagination & he really is better off in a home where he can have a useful life, with a lady who is also an EPSM specialist.

A big slice of pie to anyone who has trawled through this, and a second slice for anyone who replies!

T x
 
Realistically I think this horse has no value on the open market. The trekking centre clearly value him and I think she's generous to agree to pay that much but, personally, I would rather take less and have it all sorted so that you're not still shelling out £41/ month. Esp given that if it takes her 12 months to pay for him then that's £400 extra you've paid out, effectively meaning youre only getting £800 anyway!
 
If she can't find £1200 for a horse which is already making her a profit, and has done since she got him, tbh I do not think she will insure him.
I would be worried that she is not running her business in a profitable way, and if that is the case, are the horses being well cared for.
It is up to you to come to some compromise, but I think that you should have the money up front.
 
Hiya,

So sorry to hear that your horse has had so many problems. It sounds like you have made a good decision to send him to a nice home where he will enjoy life, and be enjoyed by those that ride him. Sounds like you've had a really tough time.

I bought my girl from my YO and paid installments for her as i was skint at the time. This agreement worked well and although I have a great relationship with the YO we still wrote up an agreement and both signed it. My situation was slightly different in that i kept her at the same yard though.

All ownership and responsibility was signed straight over to me at the date of the 'contract' and i wrote in it that i would pay a minimum amount per month and would pay more if my finances allowed it. It was more of a way of understanding where we both stood.

The arrangement worked great for me and the YO still drives me to shows and grooms for me as she still has a nice bond with the horse. The horse has turned out to be my 'horse of a lifetime' too.

I would exercise caution though on the fact that your horse is in another yard and, if i were you, assume that you won't get any more money for him, and if you do get anything back, it's a bonus.

Good luck with it
x
 
H'mm, that was going to be my next question - have I asked too much for him?

On the one hand, it is killing me that I paid £8.5k for him (he could jump 1 m 40 //s when I got him & was placing every time out BD, & I had a 5 stage vetting), & he is actually doing a useful job for the trekking centre looking after beginners as he is now very steady.

On the other hand, he will never get better or do anything *but* plod about, & he is a big, heavy lump to feed & shoe, & it is unlikely that anyone else would want him. The lady has also carried out research into EPSM with a local vet centre & is something of an expert so she is better equipped to manage him, whereas it was a steep learning curve for me.

Would £600 be fairer? Maybe sell for £1 so I can cancel the insurance, & not hold my breath for the other £599? It would be a disaster if he came back & I had to shoe him etc again. She honestly is doing a fab job of looking after him & sends pictures & updates. She can't insure him (I don't think) as she doesn't own him; therefore no insurable interest.
 
I think I'd sell him for a minimal amount, knowing that he probably won't be insured for vets fees and if anything major happens he'll be pts. If his EPSM is so bad even with correct management that he can only plod around with beginners, that's probably fair.
 
catembi said:
She can't insure him (I don't think) as she doesn't own him; therefore no insurable interest.
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Am sure she can. Loaners can insure their loan horses (I know because I did).
But in all honesty I think I'd name a lower price and sell him to her for whatever she'll pay as it sounds asthough it's the worry about having to have him back that is getting to you. You've found him the best possible home so you've totally done right by him so cut your losses and move on.
 
I have just offered to drop his price to £600 & sell him to her now for £1, then accept the rest as & when.

If Adrian is still mine & not insured, then if he needed a big vet bill, the weight would be on my shoulders, but if he's not, then it is his new owner's dilemma. I wouldn't sleep at night if he was mine & not insured in case I had to make an awful decision. Been there, done that with Catembi (protein losing enteropathy; used up all the insurance, kept going with my own funds until there was no hope) & it nearly killed me.

Thank you, everyone...just writing stuff down on here helps to clarify my thinking, & different perspectives really help too.
 
I would ring your insurance Company and say that due to his condition you would like to lower his value to £1.5k and then your monthly premiums will be much, much lower!!
 
Thanks for the suggestion, but I have done that already! I paid £8.5k for him, & he was insured for the full amount at a cost of c £80 pm. I rang & explained, & they would only lower to £2k value, which was £41!

Hopefully the lady will want him for £1, & anything else will be a nice surprise. I don't want to have him reappearing in the depths of winter, gobbling up all my hay & fighting with Trev, & removing that possibility is preferable to getting the money!
 
Wish I had seen this earlier but you've done it now.

Why on earth are you paying £41 a month for a horse that is virtually worthless except to the loaner? Drop his value with insurance co. to £500, vet cover to minimal although I wouldn't even have that on him now TBH as he's in her care, she should be paying for that part of it. That will save you I don't know how much. Horse is to stay in your name until he's paid for in full, that way if worse comes to worse you will get paid out something. She's laughing all the way to the bank now you've dropped the price, horse is paying for himself easily and you should set a time limit of only until the end of the trekking season to get your money. If she's got any sense she'll put aside his earnings to pay you out.
Don't blame you for taking this way out at all, would have done exactly the same but you must make sure she doesn't take the p$ss by dragging it out too long.
 
Maesfen said:
Wish I had seen this earlier but you've done it now.

Why on earth are you paying £41 a month for a horse that is virtually worthless except to the loaner? Drop his value with insurance co. to £500, vet cover to minimal although I wouldn't even have that on him now TBH as he's in her care, she should be paying for that part of it. That will save you I don't know how much. Horse is to stay in your name until he's paid for in full, that way if worse comes to worse you will get paid out something. She's laughing all the way to the bank now you've dropped the price, horse is paying for himself easily and you should set a time limit of only until the end of the trekking season to get your money. If she's got any sense she'll put aside his earnings to pay you out.
Don't blame you for taking this way out at all, would have done exactly the same but you must make sure she doesn't take the p$ss by dragging it out too long.
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The problem with this is that the only realistic sanction for non-payment would be the return of the horse to OP, which she particularly does not want (I quite understand why).
OP you seem to have found a sensible way round your dilemma and a suitable home for a difficult to place horse. I hope that the new owner does the honourable thing and pays the rest of the money but if, by some chance, she doesn't, you will not be losing any more money/nights sleep.
 
Agree with Maesfen and others.

The risk with any 'agreement' is that they can be broken REGARDLESS of what anyone/everyone signs. So then you are left with what you do.

In terms of insurance, she will have some sort of insurance on him - she must have if she is using the animal/and others in a form or trade. e.g trekking.

She will be seriously risking trouble if she doesn't have sufficient liability insurance, which I assume is what you are talking about when you speak of insurance.
As given covering vet fees, these will be limited with the known condition of the horse.

I can understand how you feel about losing a large sum of money, but that is the risk with horses I'm afraid, and you seem quite sensible (albeit the pain of the massive loss is still there).

Let the money element go to be honest and sell her the horse for a nomial amount, produce a receipt declaring he is 'sold as seen' (Yes I know she already has him).
What about his tack?
This perhaps could be another sale value if you really need the funds.

But, risk is there, you just have to trust the person is honest, as pursuing them if they don't pay is financially going to cost you and also in stress - and you have to ask yourself is it really worth it?

Sell him cheap, he has a home doing something useful and you, as you say, can relieve yourself of the outgoing.
By the way, does your insurance know what he is used for?

Put this all down to experience, and focus on the two you have!

We lost alot of money on a horse abotu a decade ago and it got stressful, but I just let go of the financials in the end and with it went the stress...

All the best in what you decide.
 
Knowing the yard where he is im sure he has the best care possible as the yard has a very good reputation.

I however dont understand how she cannot insure him?
I have a horse loaned out and he is insured - i even have a copy of the document. plus i cant see how he isnt already insured if they are using him as part of their business?
 
Vicki_Krystal said:
I however dont understand how she cannot insure him?
I have a horse loaned out and he is insured - i even have a copy of the document. plus i cant see how he isnt already insured if they are using him as part of their business?
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I suspect that the trekking business has him insured for liability but not for vet fees. He will be covered liability-wise under a blanket insurance policy. I think (can be told otherwise though) that you cannot insure a horse twice for vet fees and if the owner has insurance for him then the trekking company cannot.

I've sold many horses on payments. It's not difficult to have a contract written up with payment schedules included. The most important part is that once acceptance of the first payment, ownership transfers to the new owner.
 
Yes, that was exactly it re insurance. The trekking centre does not insure Adrian for vets' bills, & I've been paying it in case he had a serious accident/illness. I would totally hate to be looking at a huge vet bill or PTS. I know that Adrian is pretty well worthless & the sensible thing would be PTS, but if I were to be put on the spot, I would absolutely hate to have him put down for financial reasons rather than welfare ones, if you see what I mean.

I appreciate that this makes no sort of sense & that the pragmatic thing would be to say, oh well, he's worthless anyway, let's PTS if he needs money spending on him...but for me, £41 per month was a fair price to pay to avoid being put in this position! I really am fond of him, esp as he replaced the late Catembi, which was an awful time of my life. Yes, my heart rules my head, & it's cost me money that could have been spent on other things, but it was the best solution for me.
 
hi there is there any chance you can give me this ladys details i have a horse with epsm and am pulling my hair out with what to do for the best thanks h
 
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