Sale of a difficult ex-racer

[Mountain Glory]

So I’m thinking of selling my 7y/o ex-racer who I’ve had for just over a year. When I bought him he’d been briefly retrained but really hadn’t done much. He’s a very sweet boy in the field but when it comes to riding it can be very much a gamble. He gets quite stressed out easily especially when there’s lots of activity on the yard or loud noises. I’ve gotten to a point where the outbursts from him (breaking away from me as soon as we step foot in the arena, broncing/bucking/rearing), while not happening every time, are just more than I can handle. The problem is I then can’t let people come and try him for buying because he’s not reliably safe, and putting him to sales livery may not be realistic either as he will likely become upset at moving stables. He needs someone that can put a lot more time and energy into him than I can, and needs to be ridden at least 4x a week which I cannot do right now due to my work. I don’t want to see him wasted as a field ornament as he does have the potential to be good, but I don’t know how to go about finding him a new home. He does tend to be more settled in winter so not sure if waiting till then is a better option but then less people are looking to buy at that time. Any advice is welcome. Based in central Scotland.

 

[fredflop]

Has he had any veterinary work ups done?

 

[TPO]

Was he vetted before you bought him and has he seen a vet since the "explosions" started?

 

[ihatework]

This type of horse worries me.

They often come with all sorts of niggly vet stuff which takes time, money and experience to pick through with no guaranteed outcome.

These athletes can then very easily fall into a downwards spiral. Please don’t kid yourself they are full of potential, or at least potential people with the skill to deal with them will pay for.

Have you had any vet work done and if not is this something you would consider doing before passing the problem on?

 

[Amymay Again]

because he’s not reliably safe

Is this a horse that, morally, can (or should) be sold?

 

[humblepie]

Have a chat with Philippa at Retraining of Racehorses. She may have suggestions for you.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Needs a vet work up done before you consider selling on.

 

[pistolpete]

Pain must be ruled out.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Just to say, no horse is ‘wasted’ being retired to the field if he is happy and pasture sound in the field but is not happy being ridden for whatever reason.

 

[paddi22]

Either you are overhorsed, his management situation isn't working for him or he is in pain - and you need to find out which it is.

This will sound really harsh, and i do empathise with your situation, but it would be immoral to pass on a horse like that as it is now, and you need to be more honest with yourself about the situation. You currently have a horse with serious issues (either behavioural or physical), and you could seriously injure someone passing him on.

It would help the situation if you got rid of the idea of his 'potential', because at the moment all he can potentially do is seriously injure someone. He would not be wasted in a field once he is cared for and not in pain. The sale livery comment doesn't make any sense either because you mention him being stressed at moving, yet if you sold him he'd find it equally as stressful surely?

If he was mine I'd
• get a full vet check done, and if I didn't have the money for that I'd PTS.
• get someone very experienced in retraining exracers to assess him and help make a decision of what your options are
• do the sales livery for a few weeks and get their opinion.
• get a good natural horsemanship person out to help you

At its essence it boils down to whether you can/want to spend money and time fixing it. If you don't have the funds (which a lot of us don't in this economy) then PTS or retire as companion is fairest option.

 

[Mountain Glory]

Is this a horse that, morally, can (or should) be sold?

Outside of the arena, on the ground, he is a nice horse and as I mentioned it’s not every time I ride that this happens. All through winter he was grand but with all the fresh grass over spring and summer it’s clearly given him more energy than I have the time to handle. Would you say it’s fair to me to be forced into keeping a horse forever that was clearly sold to me with missing information and that I can’t give what he needs? It’s morally wrong to PTS a healthy horse who could be better suited to someone else.

 

[Mountain Glory]

Either you are overhorsed, his management situation isn't working for him or he is in pain - and you need to find out which it is.

This will sound really harsh, and i do empathise with your situation, but it would be immoral to pass on a horse like that as it is now, and you need to be more honest with yourself about the situation. You currently have a horse with serious issues (either behavioural or physical), and you could seriously injure someone passing him on.

It would help the situation if you got rid of the idea of his 'potential', because at the moment all he can potentially do is seriously injure someone. He would not be wasted in a field once he is cared for and not in pain. The sale livery comment doesn't make any sense either because you mention him being stressed at moving, yet if you sold him he'd find it equally as stressful surely?

If he was mine I'd
• get a full vet check done, and if I didn't have the money for that I'd PTS.
• get someone very experienced in retraining exracers to assess him and help make a decision of what your options are
• do the sales livery for a few weeks and get their opinion.
• get a good natural horsemanship person out to help you

At its essence it boils down to whether you can/want to spend money and time fixing it. If you don't have the funds (which a lot of us don't in this economy) then PTS or retire as companion is fairest option.

Yes I am over horsed. I have no intention of selling him without disclosing his character and I’m not rushing into it hence why I’m seeking advice on routes. He’s not had X-rays but he has had his back checked for pain and has been fine, he’s clean limbed and in good health. Not to say I wouldn’t be willing to get him formally checked if that’s what’s required. The point of the sales livery comment is that someone who is a professional and experienced would be able to school him every day and give him the energy release he clearly needs to get him to a point where selling him would be possible. I’m not willing to PTS a healthy horse who outside of the arena is happy, if being a field companion is the only option for him then that’s what it would need to be.

 

[Jenko109]

Would you say it’s fair to me to be forced into keeping a horse forever that was clearly sold to me with missing information and that I can’t give what he needs?

Nobody has suggested that you have to keep him.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Outside of the arena, on the ground, he is a nice horse and as I mentioned it’s not every time I ride that this happens. All through winter he was grand but with all the fresh grass over spring and summer it’s clearly given him more energy than I have the time to handle. Would you say it’s fair to me to be forced into keeping a horse forever that was clearly sold to me with missing information and that I can’t give what he needs? It’s morally wrong to PTS a healthy horse who could be better suited to someone else.

How do you know his healthy though without a proper work up with a vet there is no way of knowing, a quick feel of the back is not enough he is displaying some excessive behaviour which often is a result of pain.

It's not moral to send such a horse on sales livery without really knowing if he is pain or not.

 

[ihatework]

Yes I am over horsed. I have no intention of selling him without disclosing his character and I’m not rushing into it hence why I’m seeking advice on routes. He’s not had X-rays but he has had his back checked for pain and has been fine, he’s clean limbed and in good health. Not to say I wouldn’t be willing to get him formally checked if that’s what’s required. The point of the sales livery comment is that someone who is a professional and experienced would be able to school him every day and give him the energy release he clearly needs to get him to a point where selling him would be possible. I’m not willing to PTS a healthy horse who outside of the arena is happy, if being a field companion is the only option for him then that’s what it would need to be.

I’ll run with your theory here, just to give you some perspective.

Good experienced schooling livery will be approx £250/week. I think 8 weeks would be a reasonable period to get an accurate assessment and hopefully some improvement in the horse to then put up for sale. So £2000 for some schooling, then however long it takes to find a buyer for a not especially desirable type (4 weeks if lucky?) and you are out of pocket at about £3000. Assuming your horse passes the vet then coming into winter you’d be lucky to get that 3k back. If he doesn’t pass the vet and is unsalable ….

I really think it would be worthwhile essentially 5 stage vetting this horse upfront for £500 or so, so at least you can make an informed decision as to how much to invest and how best to invest it.

 

[TPO]

I’ll run with your theory here, just to give you some perspective.

Good experienced schooling livery will be approx £250/week. I think 8 weeks would be a reasonable period to get an accurate assessment and hopefully some improvement in the horse to then put up for sale. So £2000 for some schooling, then however long it takes to find a buyer for a not especially desirable type (4 weeks if lucky?) and you are out of pocket at about £3000. Assuming your horse passes the vet then coming into winter you’d be lucky to get that 3k back. If he doesn’t pass the vet and is unsalable ….

I really think it would be worthwhile essentially 5 stage vetting this horse upfront for £500 or so, so at least you can make an informed decision as to how much to invest and how best to invest it.

Continuing with this theory, I'm on a few ex racer for sale pages, really nice looking horses from 3-9yrs old who have good ridden videos, are available for ridden trials and open to vet priced £1.5-2k aren't selling quickly.

A horse that you've had for a year and haven't been able to progress isn't going to be one that sells for any sort of money [into a good home].

You took ownership of the horse and with that comes responsibility. If you didn't vet prior to purchase that's on you, ditto if you've overhorsed yourself and not sought suitable help. The least you owe this horse is a work up by a good equine vet. If that's unaffordable then so will sales livery leaving the options as keeping as a field ornament, and ignore what might be underlying, or pts.

 

[Amymay Again]

I’ll run with your theory here, just to give you some perspective.

Good experienced schooling livery will be approx £250/week. I think 8 weeks would be a reasonable period to get an accurate assessment and hopefully some improvement in the horse to then put up for sale. So £2000 for some schooling, then however long it takes to find a buyer for a not especially desirable type (4 weeks if lucky?) and you are out of pocket at about £3000. Assuming your horse passes the vet then coming into winter you’d be lucky to get that 3k back. If he doesn’t pass the vet and is unsalable ….

I really think it would be worthwhile essentially 5 stage vetting this horse upfront for £500 or so, so at least you can make an informed decision as to how much to invest and how best to invest it.

Excellent post.

 

[Mountain Glory]

Ok thanks for the comments people. The only advice really to take away is get a vet work up which I’ve said I’d be willing to do. Not much else productive or supportive has come from this so further comments won’t be followed.

 

[Amymay Again]

Ok thanks for the comments people. The only advice really to take away is get a vet work up which I’ve said I’d be willing to do. Not much else productive or supportive has come from this so further comments won’t be followed.

What replies were you wanting?

I mean you could sell it for £500 with a fingers crossed attitude

 

[Jenko109]

I don't think anyone has been unsupportive.

The comments are just matter of fact.

We don't sugar coat here.

 

[Melody Grey]

Haven’t read all of the replies so this may have been covered- has he had any down time out of racing? In my experience some need that before they can find a new job, some don’t admittedly and go straight into retraining/ home environments.

There is clearly some considerable anxiety about being ridden and agree that pain is potentially a factor and a vet work up would be the best advice.

Does the yard who had him in training/ before have anything to contribute?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Yes I am over horsed. I have no intention of selling him without disclosing his character and I’m not rushing into it hence why I’m seeking advice on routes. He’s not had X-rays but he has had his back checked for pain and has been fine, he’s clean limbed and in good health. Not to say I wouldn’t be willing to get him formally checked if that’s what’s required. The point of the sales livery comment is that someone who is a professional and experienced would be able to school him every day and give him the energy release he clearly needs to get him to a point where selling him would be possible. I’m not willing to PTS a healthy horse who outside of the arena is happy, if being a field companion is the only option for him then that’s what it would need to be.

If this involves selling him on (even full loaning), I would think there is quite a risk that even if you sell honestly he's the type which could be sold on again dishonestly. You cannot guarantee that if you sell him as a companion that he will stay one; he could end up in a whole heap of trouble, not to mention the risk of some unsuspecting person getting seriously hurt.

Also, you've had loads of potential routes suggested but are not happy. What were you hoping the replies would be?

 

[Orangehorse]

Yes I am over horsed. I have no intention of selling him without disclosing his character and I’m not rushing into it hence why I’m seeking advice on routes. He’s not had X-rays but he has had his back checked for pain and has been fine, he’s clean limbed and in good health. Not to say I wouldn’t be willing to get him formally checked if that’s what’s required. The point of the sales livery comment is that someone who is a professional and experienced would be able to school him every day and give him the energy release he clearly needs to get him to a point where selling him would be possible. I’m not willing to PTS a healthy horse who outside of the arena is happy, if being a field companion is the only option for him then that’s what it would need to be.

I really sympathise, it is very tricky when you are in this sort of situation. I think take up the suggestion of a vet check, then the Retraining Racehorses people and also consider the Natural Horsemanship people too.

 

[Beausmate]

Ok thanks for the comments people. The only advice really to take away is get a vet work up which I’ve said I’d be willing to do. Not much else productive or supportive has come from this so further comments won’t be followed.

I was going to raise a point, but as you haven't even given it two hours before flouncing, I'm not going to bother.

 

[TPO]

Given his racing name was used as posters name if anyone is missold in the future it also won't be hard to prove that there were known issues should any misdemeanor occur. The joys of the Internet

RoR Scotland is active. They hold lots of information days/nights, clinics and lessons and are helpful are passing on contact details of people who can help. But I'd put money on them advising vet as the first step.

 

[Clodagh]

I was going to raise a point, but as you haven't even given it two hours before flouncing, I'm not going to bother.

I hope the door missed her in the way out.

 

[Glitter's fun]

OP was named "Mountain Glory". Just putting that here in case name turns to numbers !

 

[Noble]

The British Thoroughbred Retraining Centre in Lancaster has a vulnerable horse scheme, your horse may be eligible given his issues. They will do a full vet work up and rehome him if he is clear and suitable after some retraining. You possibly wont read this though....

 

[TPO]

I'm sure OP is still reading so...

Phillip Kirby has a good reputation. He's posted that they always take their horses back. So contact him.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=138508592659848

FWIW Mountain Glory looks like a big, strong horse in videos as a 4yr old. Probably not the type suitable for a novice or someone new to ex racers.

I'm central Scotland. I'd happily pay £1, to make it legal, and collect the horse on Sunday to solve your problem. I'd get a vet work up and deal with the outcome sensibly. The offer is there OP.

ETA: he was sold (or at least advertised) by his breeder/owner Sep 2022 with a declared tendon injury done in 2021 and treated with stem cells. Also someone to contact, alongside the trainer, if help is needed.

Got to love the Internet

 

[Carrottom]

Hero's charity might be able to offer help with rehoming.