Sales livery - tightening up contracts

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Hi all,

wanting to get some info from others that offer sales livery or perhaps have used sales livery..

I am in touch with BHS legal as well for advise but always nice to ask like minded folk.

So on completion of sale.
Who gets paid and how?

I was getting the buyer to pay full funds to me (90% of time it’s bacs) then I deducted commission accordingly and transferred final to owner. However I’m now reading this isn’t a great idea & can cause all kinds of issues down the line.

so what should happen? an invoice showing amount to owner and their details. Then amount to me with my details?

thank you
 

ycbm

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Buyer paid me and I paid commission after sale and livery on a weekly basis.

Paperwork then is a matter between the seller and the buyer, none of your business, you only invoice the seller for livery.

You are right, if the buyer pays you it can muddle whether you then need to comply with the Sale of Goods Act if the buyer isn't happy with the horse.
..
 
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Buyer paid me and I paid commission after sale and livery on a weekly basis.

Paperwork then is a matter between the seller and the buyer, none of your business, you only invoice the seller for livery.

You are right, if the buyer pays you it can muddle whether you then need to comply with the Sale of Goods Act if the buyer isn't happy with the horse.
..

that’s great thank you. Sounds much less messy. I did always think & I know the bank often didn’t like money coming in from one source and similar amounts straight back out to a different.

I will get this process in place immediately. My only worry is the clients that don’t pay the invoice and then I have to chase payments. Is there a way I cover myself here. I suppose the sales livery contract will be the cover.
 

ycbm

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ok, my biggest worry of this is will I end up having to chase payments

Your worry the other way around is that if the seller turns out to have lied to you about the horse, or it just goes wrong, you could find yourself obliged to have the horse back under the Sale of Goods Act, refund the price and be left with an unsellable horse or one worth a lot less money. I once helped a friend return an unsuitable horse that wasn't disclosed as an agency sale until we told them it was unsuitable.

Small claims are easy and cheap enough to take if you get a defaulter.
.
 
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mini_b

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ok, my biggest worry of this is will I end up having to chase payments

I think that’s the risk of offering any service.

Make sure you’ve got a clear sales contract set up and state your payment terms. It’s not worth the paper it’s written on but it is a good way of making sure there’s not a lack of communication about it and if it did get messy and you had to go to court then you’ve got a paper trail.
 

ycbm

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I think to be safe you probably need to see proof that the horse has been paid for by the buyer at the price agreed before it leaves your premises, but that didn't happen with the dealer I sold through.
.
 

Goldenstar

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I was the buyer , I had arranged the price with the owner based on videos and conversations prior to viewing it was a bit unusual because the horse was very nice example of type but was difficult to place because he had a lot about him and I used that to negotiate a reduced price before I had seen it I then had it ridden by a someone nearer .
I went down view at the sales livery agreed to buy and then paid the sales livery after the vetting .
The horse had only been there a few days.
This was an extremely well known sales livery , I doubt many people muck them around they where formidable.
 

Abacus

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Someone I know sold a horse for someone else - she doesn’t professionally offer sales livery, only schooling, but is a lovely rider and did it as a bit of a favour for a friend. Made the mistake of having the money transferred to her after the sale, and the buyer later tried to sue her as it was unsuitable. I believe she won but she had appeared to be a dealer by taking the money. In your situation could you ask for livery upfront and then the commission to be paid to you before the horse leaves your yard?
 

ycbm

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There is an argument that a big selling livery which can afford the odd loss might operate as if the Sale of Goods Act applies anyway, in order to protect their reputation if a sale goes wrong. In that case, taking money direct is a sound strategy and avoids having to chase commission payments.
.
 

Glitter's fun

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Hi all,

wanting to get some info from others that offer sales livery or perhaps have used sales livery..

I am in touch with BHS legal as well for advise but always nice to ask like minded folk.

So on completion of sale.
Who gets paid and how?

I was getting the buyer to pay full funds to me (90% of time it’s bacs) then I deducted commission accordingly and transferred final to owner. However I’m now reading this isn’t a great idea & can cause all kinds of issues down the line.

so what should happen? an invoice showing amount to owner and their details. Then amount to me with my details?

thank you
Can you ask the buyer to make two separate payments, one to you & one for the remainder to the old owner? That way you have your money and you have proof that the buyer understood the situation at the time of sale.
 

Birker2020

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This was on the contract I signed with the sales livery when I tried to sell my horse:

Contracts will be signed by both purchaser and vendor as the sale is between both parties.

*************** as Agents will not take the sale money for the horse, it will go direct to the current owner from purchaser and then livery bill is sent over to original purchaser to pay.

The contract is between purchaser and the vendor. As an agent we will not be liable for any returns, however we will do our absolute upmost to make sure the purchaser is right for the horse before selling.
 
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Your worry the other way around is that if the seller turns out to have lied to you about the horse, or it just goes wrong, you could find yourself obliged to have the horse back under the Sale of Goods Act, refund the price and be left with an unsellable horse or one worth a lot less money. I once helped a friend return an unsuitable horse that wasn't disclosed as an agency sale until we told them it was unsuitable.

Small claims are easy and cheap enough to take if you get a defaulter.
.

great advice. Many thanks ?
 
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Can you ask the buyer to make two separate payments, one to you & one for the remainder to the old owner? That way you have your money and you have proof that the buyer understood the situation at the time of sale.

i was thinking exactly this!! Receipt / invoice can show & they then are required to make the two payments on purchase of the horse. Greats minds ?
 
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Someone I know sold a horse for someone else - she doesn’t professionally offer sales livery, only schooling, but is a lovely rider and did it as a bit of a favour for a friend. Made the mistake of having the money transferred to her after the sale, and the buyer later tried to sue her as it was unsuitable. I believe she won but she had appeared to be a dealer by taking the money. In your situation could you ask for livery upfront and then the commission to be paid to you before the horse leaves your yard?

Sorry to hear for your friend. Great advice. Many thanks
 
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This was on the contract I signed with the sales livery when I tried to sell my horse:

Contracts will be signed by both purchaser and vendor as the sale is between both parties.

*************** as Agents will not take the sale money for the horse, it will go direct to the current owner from purchaser and then livery bill is sent over to original purchaser to pay.

The contract is between purchaser and the vendor. As an agent we will not be liable for any returns, however we will do our absolute upmost to make sure the purchaser is right for the horse before selling.

Thank you. Well worded.
 

Birker2020

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Thank you. Well worded.
No problems. I'm not sure how the sales agent isn't liable for returns though. Especially if they chose not to disclose when I had asked them to, they were keen to keep me at a bit of a distance at the time away from it all, whether this was because they could see how distraught I was about selling him. Or whether they didn't want me around as they weren't going to disclose his issues although I'd asked them to, and they didn't want me meeting potential buyers I'm not sure.
 

ycbm

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I'm not sure how the sales agent isn't liable for returns though.

Because in an agency sale the contract is between the buyer and the owner. If things go wrong, even if the dealer has lied and the owner didn't know, the buyer sues the owner because the agent was acting on their behalf. The owner then sues the agent to recover their losses. It's a private sale, buyer beware.
.
 

Birker2020

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Because in an agency sale the contract is between the buyer and the owner. If things go wrong, even if the dealer has lied and the owner didn't know, the buyer sues the owner because the agent was acting on their behalf. The owner then sues the agent to recover their losses. It's a private sale, buyer beware.
.
 
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No problems. I'm not sure how the sales agent isn't liable for returns though. Especially if they chose not to disclose when I had asked them to, they were keen to keep me at a bit of a distance at the time away from it all, whether this was because they could see how distraught I was about selling him. Or whether they didn't want me around as they weren't going to disclose his issues although I'd asked them to, and they didn't want me meeting potential buyers I'm not sure.

Oh gosh I’m so sorry to hear this. I tend to follow the owners lead. Some like to be involved every step of the way others prefer to be on a need to know basis.. sorry you didn’t get this. Hope they didn’t do it to be dishonest. That would be extremely unprofessional !
 

Annagain

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I've both bought and sold through sales livery recently. Both times the contract was between me and the owner/buyer. With selling I had a very professional contract, provided by the sales livery but making it clear I was the seller and making it clear what sort of vetting the buyer had etc. When I bought the receipt / contract came directly from the seller and wasn't as extensive.

No money for the sale was paid to the sales livery in either instance. When I sold, I confirmed receipt of money for the horse and paid the sales livery before the buyer was allowed to take him. When I bought, I know the seller had to confirm receipt of funds before I could take him but I don't know about the arrangement for the commission.
 
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