Sarcoid growth

[BBP]

Back when I discovered this little lump between his hind legs in February I had no idea if it was even a sarcoid, and definitely no idea how fast it would grow. I thought it could be super slow and not cause any issues, but I could see that there was a lot of not normal tissue surrounding it, so thought it may develop faster. Vet check showed remove may be complicated, either partial removal under standing sedation but risking leaving a lot of live sarcoid tissue and making it more aggressive, or total removal with laser under general anaesthetic, which I don’t think he would get up from. I have gone for the ‘do nothing’ option as I’m not prepared to put him through surgery if it is likely to come back and he has other issues that mean he is just trying to live his best life even if it is shorter than I want.

Anyway, I thought I would post the pictures just so those with little experience of sarcoids (like me) can see the progression.

Feb 2022

April 2022

02 July 2022

31 July 2022

15 Sept 2022

 

[ihatework]

You might find that shells out (which is the yucky bit!).
I had a mare many years ago that had a few like that between her back legs and they went through cycles of growing, shelling out, healing up and then regrowing.

 

[Lady Jane]

My friend had a horse with disgusting ulcerating sarcoids bu they didn't kill him. They are so unpredictable. How old is your horse?

 

[quizzie]

If it does shell out…ask your vet about using Efudix cream in the cavity…..it is a less aggressive form of Liverpool cream, and worked very well on mine on sarcoids that prof K. thought would give serious problems.
It wouldn’t deal with the big mass, but smaller ones, and re growth, can be very effective.

 

[BBP]

My friend had a horse with disgusting ulcerating sarcoids bu they didn't kill him. They are so unpredictable. How old is your horse?

He’s 17.

 

[Lady Jane]

Leave well alone - good decision

 

[ponynutz]

I'm always a 'remove them' person after I had one that ulcerated.

 

[BBP]

I'm always a 'remove them' person after I had one that ulcerated.

I would if the removal were straightforward, but removing the large modular one on its own would require disrupting the other surrounding tissue and likely triggering that to be some more actively aggressive, and removing the whole lot would require general anaesthetic which I won’t do with this horse. He has a much bigger picture health wise (multiple ligament issues caused by hypermobility, perhaps a type of DSLD), which means the point at which this ulcerates or causes him any issues is likely to be the final thing to be honest.

 

[DabDab]

My gelding grows them exactly like that in exactly the same place. He had a period of about 5 years where he didn't grow any but then they started popping up again. I actually prefer the ones that grow like BBPs has because they get to a point where you can band them off. We've banded 5 off Dabs over the years and never had a direct regrowth but he has got lots of small unbandable ones in the general area. It is a weird disease - you'll have rapid growth in them for about 4 months and then they will sort sit dormant for a while ?

My vets are largely of the same opinion as yours - leave well alone because any effective treatment in the area will be pretty invasive. So we just deal with the ones that get too big

 

[Tiddlypom]

My mare had a big one sprouting out of an area on her inner thigh containing mixed sarcoids. She has plenty of other issues so I declined the lengthy and spendy Prof K sarcoid treatment protocol.

When it ulcerated I opted for banding + liquid N2 as last chance saloon for her. It's *fingers crossed* gone very well. If anything, the surrounding sarcoids have calmed down. For now.

 

[BBP]

I assume banding depends on the stalk? One of my vets seemed to think this was too thick at the base? It’s probably well over an inch across, so almost full thickness all the way.

 

[BBP]

My gelding grows them exactly like that in exactly the same place. He had a period of about 5 years where he didn't grow any but then they started popping up again. I actually prefer the ones that grow like BBPs has because they get to a point where you can band them off. We've banded 5 off Dabs over the years and never had a direct regrowth but he has got lots of small unbandable ones in the general area. It is a weird disease - you'll have rapid growth in them for about 4 months and then they will sort sit dormant for a while ?

My vets are largely of the same opinion as yours - leave well alone because any effective treatment in the area will be pretty invasive. So we just deal with the ones that get too big

I’d like it if it would go dormant for a while but this one seems to have grown and grown for 8 months now.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I assume banding depends on the stalk? One of my vets seemed to think this was too thick at the base? It’s probably well over an inch across, so almost full thickness all the way.

The banded one in the pic above seemed to develop a stalk. When first growing it appeared to be adhered to the underlying sarcoid mass, but then it changed.

 

[littleshetland]

A friend has just got rid of huge sarcoid on her geldings sheath.It was the size of a golfball, very 'angry' and bleeding. She'd heard of a treatment that involved a mix of flour, salt and water mixed to a sticky paste and applied continuously. Apparently the salt in the mix to 'dry' the sarcoid and a thick coating of paste to deprive it of light! It's taken about 6 months of applying this 'pastry' mix, but it's actually worked - much to our surprise - the sarcoid has completely gone.

 

[ycbm]

My mare had a big one sprouting out of an area on her inner thigh containing mixed sarcoids. She has plenty of other issues so I declined the lengthy and spendy Prof K sarcoid treatment protocol.

When it ulcerated I opted for banding + liquid N2 as last chance saloon for her. It's *fingers crossed* gone very well. If anything, the surrounding sarcoids have calmed down. For now.

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The colour of that treatment makes it look as if it's got a high proportion of copper sulphate in it TP. What's it called, do you know?

 

[stangs]

My boy - coincidentally, also 17 years of age - also has a sarcoid in a tricky location (very close to his stifle). Vet recommended surgery, but admitted it would be risky. It’s not a risk worth taking imo.

In a few months, it went from only really being noticeable if you felt the area, to being a noticeable lump. Not sure what his future is. I’m getting another vet’s opinion soon, but most of me thinks that, while he’s sound on the leg, best to leave the sarcoid alone. I’m hoping that supplements for immune support might work, but there’s obviously no guarantee.

 

[southerncomfort]

A friend has just got rid of huge sarcoid on her geldings sheath.It was the size of a golfball, very 'angry' and bleeding. She'd heard of a treatment that involved a mix of flour, salt and water mixed to a sticky paste and applied continuously. Apparently the salt in the mix to 'dry' the sarcoid and a thick coating of paste to deprive it of light! It's taken about 6 months of applying this 'pastry' mix, but it's actually worked - much to our surprise - the sarcoid has completely gone.

I've been following the 'sarcoid cure' fb page that advocates this treatment for a while and wondering whether to try it or not.

Bo has one in his armpit that I opted to treat with sarc x and the sarc lotion but they've not done a thing unfortunately.

 

[ycbm]

I'm a veteran of self-treatment of sarcoids. (Yes, it's legal.) Please don't touch them unless you have a strong stomach, are prepared to potentially cause your horse a bit of pain, are not frightened by blood, and once you start, will battle through against whatever they throw at you, no matter how much seems to be dying (they can have very big networks of roots) until they are dead. The flour and salt, I have to admit, really looks like it works. I suspect it does it by dehydration, but it seems to take a long, long time. Other chemicals are faster but can create some horrible wounds. If in any doubt at all, call your vet, don't touch them yourself.
.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I have tried the Sarcoid cure method with great success.
removed 3 so far, 2 small warty ones, and one larger marble sized lump. I’ll attach some photos!

*edited to add that my horse did not show any signs of discomfort when treating this way. I would however advise doing it over the winter time/a less fly-ey time of year!

 

[Birker2020]

Wow thanks for sharing those photos, very interesting. I hope your horses are okay.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I did the flour and salt thing too one a couple of Jacobs and they definitely started to shrink and one dropped off in part but then other things meant he had to be PTS before I could conclude the story.
I had endless photos of them all but I can't find them now, one flat on his chest and another grey and not angry but not flat on his side, several in his sheath flat and red, one on inside of back leg grey and cracked looking but not angry and one the full length of his armpit - also grey and not angry. None of them seemed to bother him so I left well alone for a couple years until a couple visibly started to grow.

 

[BBP]

A friend has just got rid of huge sarcoid on her geldings sheath.It was the size of a golfball, very 'angry' and bleeding. She'd heard of a treatment that involved a mix of flour, salt and water mixed to a sticky paste and applied continuously. Apparently the salt in the mix to 'dry' the sarcoid and a thick coating of paste to deprive it of light! It's taken about 6 months of applying this 'pastry' mix, but it's actually worked - much to our surprise - the sarcoid has completely gone.

Interesting thank you. I think I’ve seen that on Facebook. My thinking is that whilst it is not causing him any problems I will leave it well alone, despite it growing rapidly. If at some point soon it ulcerates I will assess that option against his overall well-being and happiness. The more aggressive chemotherapy type creams etc aren’t an option due to the affect that they would have on the skin on the opposing side.

 

[GreyDot]

Mine has a two small blueberry sized sarcoids on his sheath. I have been watching them since they were first discovered in June (see thread here: https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/picture-sarcoid-on-sheath.819780/ )
He has Global Herbs Sar X and I have been putting on Thuja cream every day since then. They haven't grown at all.
This is what they look like now (June photo is in other thread). Considering the very delicate place they are, I am really reticent to mess with them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The colour of that treatment makes it look as if it's got a high proportion of copper sulphate in it TP. What's it called, do you know?

The blue colour is just whatever dye they use in antibiotic spray. I use it occasionally on the site of the flat sarcoid (scaly area) which erupted in anger at being disturbed by the banding before settling down again.

The photo below was about 6 weeks after the banding. The angry red protuberance is what was left after a huge scab covering the whole flat sarcoid had lifted off. The vet had left the flat sarcoid alone as it is near the stifle joint, but it still got upset.




Same area today, fingers crossed looking calm 8 months after banding. There's a small scabby bit left which takes hold of the dye, and the vet says to leave it well alone!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

This was the sarcoid next to his sheath that had a chunk fall off, this was with the flour & salt

ETA: I was also advised by someone else to cut out all soy, linseed, oatfeed/wheatfeed and oils from his diet which was harder than it sounded as so many feeds have one of those things in.
Not sure if it helped or not as I did both at the same time.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

These were his others:

 

[Birker2020]

My horse way back in 1997 had an angleberry, similar to a sarcoid but instead is a papilloma. I used vitamin e liquid to remove the smaller ones, rubbed in every day. The large one was removed with a scalpel.

 

[ycbm]

My horse way back in 1997 had an angleberry, similar to a sarcoid but instead is a papilloma. I used vitamin e liquid to remove the smaller ones, rubbed in every day. The large one was removed with a scalpel.

Angleberry is just an old name for sarcoids. They are all a result of bovine papilloma virus.

 

[Birker2020]

Angleberry is just an old name for sarcoids. They are all a result of bovine papilloma virus.

I thought that until I read this:

Definition: Angleberry is an old term used by horse owners to describe what vets now more commonly call a Papilloma. It is a small raised benign tumour or warty growth which may be single or in clusters of multiple warts. Angleberries can appear on the skin or mucous membranes of horses, they often occur in great numbers.
Although an angleberry is a papilloma it is not a sarcoid although it is frequently but incorrectly referred to as one. Angleberries are warts, but sarcoids are not warts.
Angleberries on horses are caused by a virus known as a papovavirus.


http://www.horse-advice.com/equi-therapy/veterinary/angleberry.shtml

 

[ycbm]

I thought that until I read this:

Definition: Angleberry is an old term used by horse owners to describe what vets now more commonly call a Papilloma. It is a small raised benign tumour or warty growth which may be single or in clusters of multiple warts. Angleberries can appear on the skin or mucous membranes of horses, they often occur in great numbers.
Although an angleberry is a papilloma it is not a sarcoid although it is frequently but incorrectly referred to as one. Angleberries are warts, but sarcoids are not warts.
Angleberries on horses are caused by a virus known as a papovavirus.


http://www.horse-advice.com/equi-therapy/veterinary/angleberry.shtml

That's very old thinking and not a proper veterinary site, search wider. Sarcoids are papilloma. Angleberries are a type of sarcoid.
.