Sarcoid Inside Mouth - Treatment or PTS??

mitters

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I am desperately after some advice regarding what to do with my horse who has a large sarcoid inside his mouth.

He is a 5yo ex point to pointer who I bought very cheaply three weeks ago. As he was so cheap I decided to take the risk and not have him vetted. I did notice some small sarcoids on the inside of his hind legs but my friend convinced me these wouldn’t be a problem and could easily be treated. Other than this everything seemed fine.

When I rode him I noticed he was a bit sensitive in his mouth. I booked the dentist and started doing a bit of gentle school work with him in the meantime. He was very well behaved but did throw his head up every now and again, but I put this down to him needing his teeth checking.

Last week I was brushing him when he did a big yawn and I saw a horrible lump just inside the corner of his mouth. It didn’t look particularly sore, but was exactly in the corner of the mouth where the bit goes. Because of its location I guessed that this was a horrible bit injury which had happened before I got him. I took him to my vet yesterday and he reckons it’s actually a sarcoid. Because its inside the mouth we can’t treat it with cream or cut it out, so the only option is to freeze it off. This is going to involve a general anaesthetic and a large vets bill of at least £600, not to mention he won’t be able to wear a bit for several months. It is also highly likely that it will grow back. Because I bought him with this problem, the insurance will not pay the bill.

So I have two options – go ahead with the treatment at a large cost but it will probably come back leading to yet more expense….or put him to sleep.

I’ve explained this situation to the guy I bought him off, he told me he didn’t know about the sarcoid and cannot buy him back as he doesn’t have any money.

I asked my vet what he would do, and he said either give him back to the guy I bought him from or have him PT because the freezing procedure will be quite tricky and may not work, and a high chance it will just grow back anyway. I don’t think I can give him back as I hate to think where he might end up.

Given that the horse is only 5 and has a lovely temperament, I would like to try freezing the sarcoid and see what happens before I give up. But I don’t have much money and cannot afford ongoing vets bills to keep having it treated. The chances are I will never be able to achieve what I want to with him because there is such a high chance it will keep growing back. I bought him to bring on and either keep to event or sell on. Because of the sarcoid both these options are going to be very difficult or impossible to achieve. And this is not to mention the cost of treating the ones on his hind legs!

I’m pretty sure the right thing to do is to cut my losses now and have him PTS. In the long run I am just going to be spending a lot of money on a horse which half the time I will be unable to ride and will never be able to sell.

I would be very interested to hear other peoples views on this, and if any one has experienced a similar situation?
 
Is the sarcoid not operable?

My first horse a while back had nodular sarcoids that wouldn't freeze off. In the end the vet sedated him and cut them out and stitched him back up. They never reappeared.

Has your vet said anything about removing them by operation?
 
Is the sarcoid not operable?

My first horse a while back had nodular sarcoids that wouldn't freeze off. In the end the vet sedated him and cut them out and stitched him back up. They never reappeared.


Has your vet said anything about removing them by operation?

Becuase of the location of the sarcoid the vet said it is not possible to operate, the only option is to freeze. I am wondering if i should get a second opinion from another vet though!
 
Becuase of the location of the sarcoid the vet said it is not possible to operate, the only option is to freeze. I am wondering if i should get a second opinion from another vet though!

I would definitely be getting another opinion, just for peace of mind. Surely it can be operated on if it's near the front of his mouth?
 
The first thing to do is to get advice from a vet who specialises in sarcoids .
I would recommend the uni of Liverpool which is a centre of excellence in this field your vet should contact them and you should send photographs of the sarcoid in the first instance I have never been charged for this then you will get advice from vets who specialise in this area which will help you make an desision .
I fear if cost is an issue the best thing may well be to PTS I would be amazed if the a GA and surgery can be done for £600 and you will have to deal with the others as well and one treatment rarely in my experiance puts a stop to sarcoids .
Sadly if I were you I would get advice from specialists but I would be seeking not to get any more attached as I fear I know what I would end up doing.
 
Maybe a silly suggestion but could you not just ride bitless and give the horse time and see if the sarcoids do not just go of their own accord? Prof Knottenbelt seems quite adamant that all those toothpaste treated sarcoids that disappeared were just the type that would go naturally anyway, so that to me would suggest if he is right that your horse has a fair chance of them disappearing naturally as a fair few people I know have successfully treated that way..

Personally I would give him a good herbal sarcoid supplement and review in 8 months time.
 
Maybe a silly suggestion but could you not just ride bitless and give the horse time and see if the sarcoids do not just go of their own accord? Prof Knottenbelt seems quite adamant that all those toothpaste treated sarcoids that disappeared were just the type that would go naturally anyway, so that to me would suggest if he is right that your horse has a fair chance of them disappearing naturally as a fair few people I know have successfully treated that way..

Personally I would give him a good herbal sarcoid supplement and review in 8 months time.

^^ This. You've got nothing to lose by trying a supplement and giving him some time. If the sarcoid gets larger then pts but as long as he is still comfortable and happy in himself I'd just see how things go.
 
Could it be banded? My TB had a sarcoid banded on his leg 9 years ago, it was very successful and he's not had another sarcoid since.
 
First speak to a couple of different vets, see what can be done and at what cost.
Secondly work out realistically if you can afford it.
Thirdly, get it done/see how he goes/ride bitless.


Give yourself a financial limit for the veterinary side of things, then if they come back, you can PTS knowing you have given him a chance.

Not easy, i feel for you, but if he is young, willing and has a good temperament i`d be giving him a chance. Lots of research and speaking with true experts on the matter is and absolute must though x
 
My 15yo cob has exactly the same thing, found by the edt when doing his teeth, he has had it for at least 6 years also thought it was from a bit, anyhow, it has not got any bigger, it has not changed colour, it does not hurt even when you inspect it and feel it there is no movement from pain, so do check IT really is what is causing the pain first before doing anything including pts. Might be his teeth just need doing. Change height of the bit so it isnt putting pressure on the angle, or go for a bitless bridle, so many options available.
 
Echo YasandCrystal.

Some sarcoids do disappear over time, treated or untreated. Check his teeth, work him in a bitless bridle if necessary. Don't fiddle or squeeze or play with the lump at all or medicate it, just leave but monitor it.
Choccy had a pea-sized lump appear under his girth Sept 2012, which grew over winter to small marble-sized, was diagnosed as a nodular sarcoid but I decided to monitor it and take steps to keep him comfy, and over summer it shrunk to almost nothing.
 
Thanks everyone, some really useful advice. I will definitely contact Prof Knottenbelt and get his opinion. It would be a shame to give up on the horse without giving him a chance, but my vet has worried me with everything he has told me!! Definitely worth getting a second opinion from Prof Knottenbelt before i make a decision. I've got a hackamore which i till try riding him in tonight. I would happily ride him in this all the time if he goes well in it, but the only issue will be when we need to do a dressage test as they're not allowed!
 
Echo YasandCrystal.

Some sarcoids do disappear over time, treated or untreated. Check his teeth, work him in a bitless bridle if necessary. Don't fiddle or squeeze or play with the lump at all or medicate it, just leave but monitor it.

Another vote for leaving it be. Quite often they just go away, so if the horse isn't in pain, just get him going bitless and keep an eye on it. Certainly wouldn't give up on him. Many horses live their entire lives with untreated sarcoids and are none the worse for it.
 
Get a second opinion from Prof Knottenbelt at liverpool leahurst, he treated my boy for one above his eye and was amazing - he will give you realistic answers :)

http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/

I second this, having a horse who went through exactly the same situation as leflynn! At least he would be able to give you the very best advice. Pics can be emailed to him.
 
I'd say just monitor it for a while too. My Tb mare has sarcoids, one of which was right above her eye. My vet was all ways keen to leave them alone to see if they would come away on their own. So far at different times she's had one flair up on her poll, chest and between her hind legs as well as above her eye. Each one has grown then come away, they don't seem to be painful for her as you can handle them without her even noticing. I have found that when I tried her on sarc ex supplement any smaller sarcoids which had appeared shrunk quite quickly but it didn't have any noticeable effect on her bigger sarcoids.
It's very possible he will have sarcoids flair up in various places given that he has them elsewhere too. I've just accepted with my horse that there will be times I can't ride her, if sarcoids make tack impossible, so I make the most of the times I can ride. It has meant that she isn't the competition horse I wanted but I decided I'd rather stick with her,
sarcoids and sporadic riding is just something we deal with!
Definitely worth trying to go bitless and giving him a bit of time to see how it goes
 
Unless prof Knottenbelt has a good idea thats affordable I would leave alone and put the horse on thuja as its got rid of sarcoids on quite a few horses that I know of. you can get it in liquid or little tablets and just put it in the feed. it does not do anything to the outside of the scaroid so could be ideal for using on one thats inside the mouth.
 
The first thing to do is to get advice from a vet who specialises in sarcoids .
I would recommend the uni of Liverpool which is a centre of excellence in this field your vet should contact them and you should send photographs of the sarcoid in the first instance I have never been charged for this then you will get advice from vets who specialise in this area which will help you make an desision .
I fear if cost is an issue the best thing may well be to PTS I would be amazed if the a GA and surgery can be done for £600 and you will have to deal with the others as well and one treatment rarely in my experiance puts a stop to sarcoids .
Sadly if I were you I would get advice from specialists but I would be seeking not to get any more attached as I fear I know what I would end up doing.

The current cost for a email/photo referral to Liverpool is £20+VAT, so you will be charged for it.

OP I would definitely get photos sent to Derek. Sarcoids are tumours of the skin and the tissues of the inside of the mouth are mucous membranes, not skin. I would be highly doubtful that it is a sarcoid. Unfortunately mucous membranes do get some pretty nasty tumours but for the sake of a £20 email referral you will get a lot more info.
 
A friend of mine had some removed and all has gone well so far! I would consider removal by a specialist vet and have a look at what sarcoid treatments are available to then feed as a supplement. It may cost you £600 but at least you won't have the expense of going out and searching for another horse.
 
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