Sarcoid opinions/help please!

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Oldred

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I've had my horse's small sarcoid 'treated' by the vet via freezing. It hasn't worked. Does anyone have experience of other treatments, particularly laser which the vet has recommended. At Rossdales Newmarket. I need to make a decision between Liverpool cream, laser and banding.

Help please.
 
I've seen a friend's horse done with Liverpool cream which failed, though I know there has been a lot of success with it. Injections worked but I'm not sure what was in the injections. Banding won't kill the root if it has one (both ones I have banded had roots) and the root can be nasty, deep seated and get angry that you tried to kill it.
 
Thanks cptrayes - both banding and the cream worry me marginally more than the laser though I haven't any idea why. Useful to have your comments.
 
i know someone who used the cream on their horse and it made them behave differently apparently. I was hoping i could do the band on my horses on on his inner thigh and sheath but if you say that it doesn't kill the root.....
 
Could you have another go with the freezing? Mine had his successfully frozen off 6 years ago now. He had a large open wound for a while, but has had nothing return in that area, or fingers crossed, anywhere else :)
 
I had Liverpool treatment on a sarcoid on his sheath. When originally treated it was the size of a large pea now it is the size of a new potato. Great stuff eh? Now I am at my wits' end even though the horse couldn't care less and is jumping and galloping better than ever.
 
Have you sent pictures to Dereck Knottenbelt? I believe that is the best way of determining the sarcoid type etc. and therefore the best way to remove? The problem is sarcoids can get aggressive when treated so best left alone until you can get a good treatment plan in place!
 
Hi there!

My gelding had one on his sheath and it grew to about the size of a golf ball! I didnt want to go down the vet treatment because a) I really cannot afford it and b) i heard numerous reports that the likes of the liverpool cream doesnt always work and can be very painful!

I did a lot of asking around, especially on here, as I wanted to try something natural first. I was recommended Thuja cream. Absolutely GREAT stuff! I started applying the cream liberally and within a few weeks it just dropped off, no scarring, no pain, no nothing! That was 2 summers ago and it hasnt come back! Really cheap as well.

I bought it from here http://holisticpetsupplies.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=492

However, I do think it has gone up in price, but still is not that expensive! Worth a try even at that price!

All the best,

Carrie
 
aldato daz-you have been lucky but can I recommend to all to please TAKE CARE. Messing with these with random treatments can make them grow much faster and angrier than just leaving them .
Ask your vet before putting anything on the sarcoid or doing anything to it-they will know what's best to do.
 
SusieT said:
aldato daz-you have been lucky but can I recommend to all to please TAKE CARE. Messing with these with random treatments can make them grow much faster and angrier than just leaving them .
Ask your vet before putting anything on the sarcoid or doing anything to it-they will know what's best to do.
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I second SusieT's very good advice.

Talk to prof Knottenbelt at liverpool. This link is v useful http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/facts.htm

Th trouble with sarcoids is that they are all different - what works for one horse may not work for another. I have had a couple of horses with sarcoids. Some have been treated successfully with the liverpool cream, and some with a product called 'sarc off' (ask your vet about this) it is cheaper than the liverpool cream and does work (although the science is somewhat dubious!)

Be very wary with herbal treatments. Sarcoids should be thought of as a form of skin cancer/abnormal cells. Lots of aloe vera/herbal based things actually work on the skin to replicate (reproduce) cells, so actually you are running a high risk that you will make the sarcoid grow.

That said, there ARE some instances where herbal remedies do seem to have worked. BUT some vets are of the opinion that if they have then it is because the sarcoid was something else (eg wart/skin condition) and not in fact a sarcoid in the first place.

Good luck.
 
Agree with above- be VERY careful, you dont want to be messing around and putting various creams that haven't been tested on. Aloe vera/camrosa ointment etc... could make them a whole lot worse, very quickly!! Call vet, get them to send photos off to Derek Knottenbelt and wait to see what he says. My old boy had lots- used the cream on a particularly big & nasty one, killed it off in about 6 weeks & by the time i'd sold him 5 months later you could hardly see the scar. Please dont mess about with it yourself, get back to your vets if you haven't already. But please do get it sorted, as a general rule the fewer they have, the fewer they will get. Don't give them chance to spread as this is the time of year that they will do.
 
We have had three or four horses with them, from one near an eye to one on a belly.
The eye one had to be done with the cream developed by Derek Knottenbelt and administered by the vet under sedation, the tummy one was frozen and although it looked horrible for a while dropped off leaving virtually no scar.
One mare had a small one and my husband wearing a glove rubbed some of the tissue from it into a different cut (am NOT advocating doing this, just reporting what he did!) and that disappeared soon after..
I would perhaps ask your vet if another go with freezing it may work, if not he will send a picture of it to DK at Leahurst and he will then send him the appropriate type of cream. It isn't cheap (seem to think the eye cost us going on for a thousand pounds) but we have used it twice and it's worked completely both times.
I think the flies carry them somehow and areas and herds appear to be susceptible if they have cows near them. Since the cows moved away here we have (touch wood) been sarcoid free...
 
Have you tried Thuja pills? When my gelding was three he had several behind his sheath. My vet suggested banding them, but I wasn't keen on the idea, so treated them with homeopathic pills from Ainsworths. They disappeared shortly afterwards.

This year (he is now 15) he developed one on his side and again I treated it with Thuja pills, this time from a normal chemist. It took a few weeks but it eventually dropped off and now there is no trace.

The pills from the chemist are really the human type, but I just got him to eat several with each meal/in apples etc.

Really cheap, of negligle risk and non-invasive.

I suppose it depends what sort of sarcoid your horse has. If it's one of those horrid blood filled golf ball ones then I would be wary of it altogether, but if it's just one of the small, hard, knobbly ones then Thuja has always done the trick for me.
 
I have been waiting for Liverpool cream since mid March and despite persistent phone calls still haven't heard anything. I'm getting increasingly fed up and worried about my poor girl :mad: :(
 
my boy has had a few sarcoids and stupidly i tried the natural route first- all it did was make the sarcoid explode in size. :(

so got the liverpool cream and also banded (which DOES kill the root if correctly applied- you obviously need to apply the band behind the root).

his sarcoid was the size of a golf ball and after the liverpool cream and band it disappeared in around 5 weeks.

he has since had 2 other little ones and these have been hit with Liverpool cream straight away and they have disappeared in around one week.

i would strongly advise getting treatment asap (from your vet)
 
I sent my pony to newmarket about 5 years ago to get one taken off his tummy it was roughly the size of a golf ball, they were really good. I didn't want him put out because he had bad COPD so they did it under sedation. Turned out he had even more tiny ones (about 3) on his legs as well so they took those off at the same time.

The service was really good they kept me informed every step of the way as they knew how worried I was!

He was in for 5 days and it cost around £800 (insurance paid it though) oh and he's never had anymore since!
 
I agree re Prof Knottenbelt - we took photos ready to send to him for advice, and actually, very luckily, what we thought was a sarcoid disappeared by itself within 8 weeks or so. Prior to this, our vet recommended we get the 'best' treatment we could as soon as possible, as the insurers will only cover the cost for 12 months from the date it was first seen by the vet. I was advised that, due to its toxicity, the Liverpool cream can only be applied by a vet, and can require sedation, so it's an expensive option. I did hear that Glasgow Uni (?I think?) are working hard on an injectible treatment for sarcoids, but I don't think it's available yet... Best of luck though, fingers crossed for you.
 
Has your vet taken photos and issued them to Liverpool?, they do take a while to get back but you will be advised on the best form of treatment for that particular sarcoid.

BCG injections have worked wonders on some horses, specially those thta have quite a few on the body or in difficult places like around the eye etc

I think it's just a case of find out which treatment works for your horse but I'm sure either freezing,BCG,LC and banding will work, but sometimes it just takes longer and you need to know what sort of sarcoid your dealing with so the right treatment will work.
 
Thanks to all who have replied. I will go the laser route I think. I don't know enough about them to treat it myself. At least he'll get a second opinion at Newmarket too. I did hear from my vet that Liverpool are taking 8 weeks to prescribe the cream in one case he knows and then there's the possibility of the cream getting on other parts of the horse if he lies down. Glad it worked for some people though. Hopefully the injections Glasgow are testing will be a breakthrough.
 
Sorry this is so long but thought i would share some of my experiences of sarcoids with you:I had a horse that developed sarcoids in between her back legs:The vet took some pictures of them and sent them off to a specialist for a specific cream to be made. We had two sorts of cream to put on: the first set had to be applied daily and made the area quite sore but luckly the horse was very co-operative, the second set turned out very expensive as the vet had to come out every day to apply the cream however after a few weeks of treatment all the 8 sarcoids apart from one had gone The area and skin did become sore and a bit gruesome but recovered quickly plus the horse was rideable all the way through so i would recomend this. I then got given a horse that also developed a sarcoid on the inside of her front leg. The vet put a tight ring on this, similar to what is put on a lambs tail, and this went a bit guey but soon dropped off and has left a tiny scar. The sarcoid has not returned so I would also recommend this treatment and this is a cheaper option. I know have on loan a horse with horrendous sarcoids on his sheath and chest, these seem to go through a cycle of growing really quickly upto about the size of a tennis ball, then turning quite nasty, bleeding and dropping off then being fine for a while - they do not affect his way going and i did end up with him under exceptional circumstances, so would not have paid any money for him, but personally belive that it is worth putting up these (and all his other behavoural problems!) as he is an event school master that is giving me so many oppertunities. His previous owners did use some form of electrucutuion on some on his fetlock and i think this did work although wasn't a very easy or practical option. Personally i think it depends on the type of sarcoid and what treatments work best for you. hope this helps. :)
 
I used the hilton herbs sarcoid tablets on a previous horse of mine, they did help in that they 'pushed out' quite a few small warts particularly round hs groin area which then just dropped off, but he had one the size of a 10p piece on the front of his chest. he kept catching it and making it bleed, vet came and banded it and it shrivelled and dropped off. It left a small scar. He never developed any more after that.

I havent read the entire thread (tired and lazy!) But how old Is your horse?
 
Thanks Jess - you will soon be a sarcoid expert!

Gingerthing - the horse is 12/13 years old and someone mentioned stress bringing out sarcoids. I think this could be the case.
 
Sorry, haven't read whole thread but my TB has had a sarcoid removed twice using laser surgery at Rossdales. Fist time was 4 years ago, and then it reappeared over last winter and had it taken off again in March. His is a spindle thread type one that is totally under the skin, so skin is slit, then tumour removed and underlying tissue lasered. As is apparent, it did come back after 3 years but to be honest if I have to have it removed every three years then it is not the end of the world. Not the cheapest option in the world, but doing a bit of research, the only really viable one in his case.

First time round he was on 5 days of Liverpool cream post op, but this time he hasn't as they reckon it makes very little difference. Op done under sedation and I took him home the same day, 2 week's box rest, due to position (stifle) and then cracked on. Had no problems either time, just kept the wound good and clean, having it done over winter helps as don't have to worry about keeping the flies off.

You do become a bit of an expert once you've negotiated your way round the Liverpool vet website a few times!

Godd luck with whatever you do.
 
I use plaiting thread, has worked every time on my pony. He still gets them but has not yet had one on the same place s an old one was. costs about 80p :D (once it came off he stayed in whilst it healed.)
 
Hi,
Has your vert had advice from liverpool? I would basically do what ever they say! Certainly wouldn't try treating it yourself or putting other creams etc on. Although there is a very slim chance it might drop off, you run the risk of it increasing in size and severity and making it much more of a problem to treat. You could wind up with a real nightmare. My mare has one on her face (under her headpiece) and several on her back legs / belly. Pics have gone to liverpool and I am now waiting (alot of waiting!) for the cream. I have now waited over 2 months, despite regular calls from me to my vet and then from my vet to liverpool. In this time they have got noticably bigger and more angry looking, so I would get them sorted as soon as you possibly can.
Would second the liverpool website for info, it is really informative.
 
Jules19 - sounds as if mine maybe similar in that its really under the skin and doesn't look like it would be good to band it for instance (even though my vet suggested it!!). Thanks for the info re lasering and glad it is working out for you.

ilovecobs - See above! I don't think the plaiting thread would work!

glosgirl - no, my vet hasn't had advice from Liverpool as he did say its taking months to get the cream from them. I am having some thoughts about selling this horse, who is lovely apart from the sarcoid - which i will tell any new owner about of course) so I'd rather need the whole thing sorted quickly without drama. Haa!
 
Oldred said:
Jules19 - sounds as if mine maybe similar in that its really under the skin and doesn't look like it would be good to band it for instance (even though my vet suggested it!!). Thanks for the info re lasering and glad it is working out for you.

ilovecobs - See above! I don't think the plaiting thread would work!

glosgirl - no, my vet hasn't had advice from Liverpool as he did say its taking months to get the cream from them. I am having some thoughts about selling this horse, who is lovely apart from the sarcoid - which i will tell any new owner about of course) so I'd rather need the whole thing sorted quickly without drama. Haa!
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Ahh didnt realise it was under the skin, hope you can get it sorted soon :)
 
Hi - just to add to the advice - I was riding a horse with a huge sarcoid between his hind thighs which started to rub and bleed. Took him to the vet who said just to use camrosa (use it sparingly it is quite strong) and within about 3 days the skin split and out popped a huge solid egg shaped lump.

The skin around it was quite nasty and full of puss for a few day so I got a stringe (minus the needle) and stringed salt water into the hole - a few weeks on you could hardly tell he had ever had a sarcoid. I understand from the vet there are different types of sarcoids so presumably the success of this method depends on the type of sarcoid.

Hope you manage to get rid of it without too much expense and stress.
 
ilovecobs said:
I use plaiting thread, has worked every time on my pony. He still gets them but has not yet had one on the same place s an old one was. costs about 80p :D (once it came off he stayed in whilst it healed.)
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Another under £1 treatment here!!!! My little mare had a sarcoid between hind legs early spring and it grew at a rate of knots! Vet wanted to wait til October to band (was going to charge in excess of £100!!) However it was getting bigger and bigger and something needed doing.

In America, it is common practice to treat sarcoids with toothpaste so thought I would give it a go. 99p and four weeks later the sarcoid has died, fallen off and left a tiny tiny hole. Bearing in mind the sarcoid was the size of a golf ball at its largest.

Now feeding with supplements to build up her immune system and should any others appear I will do the same- after all there is no "actual" cure for sarcoids yet and this method has worked and was much cheaper!!!! :)
 
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