Sarcoid Treatment and Turnout

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Bertie84

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Hi,

A referral to Professor Knottenbelt was sent on Wednesday 22nd April. From what my vet has said, it looks like it will be liverpool cream. The sarcoid is on his girthline, just below saddle pad (just smaller than a 1p) and one on the inside on his thigh (smaller than a pea - reletively new).

I am looking to ask about turnout as he cannot be ridden, only lunged due to one on his girthline. Vet has said it can be beneficial to have him in light work and getting turned out if possible.

Once scab forms can i turn him out over night when flies are less? I have just bought the new Amigo fly rug with Vamoose (fly repellent) already on rug and will obv spray him aswell. I emailed prof Knottenbelt who suggested 125g vaseline and 50 kg dose of an ivermectin (horse wormer) mixed together in a paste as this mixture can be put on any sarcoid or wound. He said can also add a spot of kerosene (the smelly one). I have also bought Battles Summer Fly Cream (bright yellow) as can be used on open wounds and repels flies.

Could anybody share there experiences of getting a sarcoid treated at this time of year please. Just very anxious.

Thanks in advance ;)
 
I used Elastoplast spray on plaster to protect from flies/debris whilst my horse was undergoing sarcoid treatment. I tried the vaseline/ivermectin tip from Prof Knotty too, but found it wiped off too easily and attracted debris to stick to it.

Best of luck with the treatment, hope it works for your boy.
 
My poor young neddy is about to have his 4th attempt at getting rid of sarcoids. The first time we tried we tended to keep him in when the Liverpool cream was being applied (over 8 days) then put him out a few days later. That was earlier in the season. The next two attempts we would have him sedated and once the cream had dried each time, we would cover the sarcoids in summer cream and turn him out. Both of those attempts were mid summer, and mid autumn respectively.

His treatment now will consist of more Liverpool cream, and laser treatment. I think he will be going into the vets for a 'holiday' this time as he is going to have a bit more aggressive treatment. Then once he has semi-healed he will be moving to join me to live in Argyll where we have the problem of midges, so it will be fly-rugs and a lot of vaseline etc.

As you can tell I have a lot of experience with sarcoids. Argggggggg!
 
My horse has developed a small area about the size of a five pence piece which was completely bald about a month ago. A friend thought it might be a sarcoid, fortunately with the use of a girth sleeve and a bit of cream its started growing hair back, but I was quite worried for a time.

I think he's possibly bitten the fur out as he has is still moulting from a full coat
 
I don't think there's any hard evidence that flies spread sarcoids. None of my other horses developed any despite living in the same field as the one that was affected.
 
Scatterbrain said:
I don't think there's any hard evidence that flies spread sarcoids. None of my other horses developed any despite living in the same field as the one that was affected.
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I agree, however I know people who swear they are spread by flies - like you I have had horses with sarcoids and the others in the herd have never had them.
 
I thought flies spread sarcoids on a horse that already has sarcoids, so is susceptible to them, but not to other horses in a herd.

I was wondering if it is all types of flies?
 
"I thought flies spread sarcoids on a horse that already has sarcoids, so is susceptible to them, but not to other horses in a herd.

I was wondering if it is all types of flies?"

Cinderellarockafella, my horse only ever had one sarcoid. It appeared in 2010 and was treated with Liverpool treatment. It grew back bigger several months later and was treated with another course of stronger Liverpool cream. Sadly it re-appeared yet again, so I tried Bloodroot cream and this done the trick. No sign of it (except the residual scar) since 2012 and certainly no sign of any others having developed thank goodness. There were all sorts of flies around throughout the time he had the sarcoid, and they certainly did not spread it on this horse or any of the others.
 
Scatterbrain said:
"I thought flies spread sarcoids on a horse that already has sarcoids, so is susceptible to them, but not to other horses in a herd.

I was wondering if it is all types of flies?"

Cinderellarockafella, my horse only ever had one sarcoid. It appeared in 2010 and was treated with Liverpool treatment. It grew back bigger several months later and was treated with another course of stronger Liverpool cream. Sadly it re-appeared yet again, so I tried Bloodroot cream and this done the trick. No sign of it (except the residual scar) since 2012 and certainly no sign of any others having developed thank goodness. There were all sorts of flies around throughout the time he had the sarcoid, and they certainly did not spread it on this horse or any of the others.
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Scatterbrain, that is reassuring to know, as even with fly rugs, sprays and barrier creams it is very difficult to keep flies away from the areas they like to feed on, eg between the hind legs, though these do seem to be prime spots for sarcoids.
 
My understanding, from my own experience and reading current research is that there is a theory....and I'm only reciting here what someone recently told me having discussed it with their own vet at Leahurst..... is that the fly lands on the sarcoid and picks up part of the DNA of the bovine papilloma virus. Apparently they have found this virus DNA in face flies which are the more common ones which bother the horse's eye. It then lands on another horse...for instance on a open wound and transfers that DNA. It the host horse carries the other half of the DNA, in other words if it is receptive, then it can develop sarcoids. If the horse doesn't then it won't develop sarcoids. I believe that a lot of research is going into looking at the affected horse's immune system now as it appears that melanoma etc are on the increase.
From my own experience this makes sense as my youngster is peppered with them, but then in his mum had them at the same age. Sadly his won't go easily where his mum's went after the first treatment of Liverpool cream (he is about to start his 4th round). He was on a yard with 50 odd other horses one of which had truly horrific sarcoids (however this horse lived until he was 30 years old with them?!). My youngster shared a field with him as well as a large group of other geldings. Mine was the only one to develop sarcoids out of the group...and mine had a mother who had had sarcoids, so it's easy to suggest that my youngster was susceptible hence developed them. He was always getting in the wars and constantly had some scrape or cut on him when he was very young.
I am assured that there is a lot of research being undertaken.....but I wish they would hurry up with a cure.
 
I think it's confusing because sarcoids in an infected horse can grow on any wound. My own horse had sarcoids near his eye from a fly bite, but he already had several on his belly. So, did the fly bite give him sarcoids on his eye, or did he get them just because the fly bite was a wound and he already had the virus in his system?

And if it's caused by a virus, and so common, why no vaccine yet?
 
It's only common sense to protect other horses when you have a horse with a raw sarcoid apply barrier creams to the raw sarcoid and any skin on other horses.
We used an anti viral cream and then filtabacc cream which made an excellent barrier .
I am pretty convinced that flies are the vector , and saw once some terrible pictures I am sure that where from Liverpool of a horse with an appalling sarcoid that had formed on a open wound while it was nursed in a the next stable to a horse being treated for sarcoids .
 
Other horses will develop them if they do not possess an immunity to them. Flies will transfer sarcoids around the body of the same horse.
 
OP have you tried the turmeric regime? My mare has been sarcoid free for nearly 2 years now. I give her turmeric, linseed and black pepper daily after she had an aggressive fibroblastic sarcoid. I will keep this up to keep her free of them.
 
Hi,

So i got my treatment protocol back from Prof Knottenbelt. Liverpool Cream. So he started his treatment on Wed 6/5/15.

The sarcoid on his girth line (side) and tiny one in between inner thigh will get 75% cream. The one on his sheath (previously banded last June14) will get 100% cream.

He will recieve treament over 8days: Wed 6/5/15, Fri 8/5/15, Mon 11/5/15 but one on sheath will get an extra application on Thur 14/5/15.

It is Friday 8th today so he has recieved 2 applications so far. The one on his girth line (side) has went slightly bloody, no swelling or massive change. The one on his sheath has swollen up along with the surrounding skin. I am making sure he is continuin to pee pee. The one on inner thigh hasnt changed at all. No swelling etc.

He is on danillon twice per day (am and pm) to reduce pain and is an anti inflammatory. He is turned out for 5 hours per day to try reduce swelling and try keep him happy in himself.
He is currently not sudated for the application on cream. Although is slightly wary of the cream on sheath and inner thigh. He may get twitched next week if cannot get near him.

I have pics for updates but cant see where to upload them.. If you want to see them, pm me :) x
 
Bertie84 said:
Hi,

So i got my treatment protocol back from Prof Knottenbelt. Liverpool Cream. So he started his treatment on Wed 6/5/15.

The sarcoid on his girth line (side) and tiny one in between inner thigh will get 75% cream. The one on his sheath (previously banded last June14) will get 100% cream.

He will recieve treament over 8days: Wed 6/5/15, Fri 8/5/15, Mon 11/5/15 but one on sheath will get an extra application on Thur 14/5/15.

It is Friday 8th today so he has recieved 2 applications so far. The one on his girth line (side) has went slightly bloody, no swelling or massive change. The one on his sheath has swollen up along with the surrounding skin. I am making sure he is continuin to pee pee. The one on inner thigh hasnt changed at all. No swelling etc.

He is on danillon twice per day (am and pm) to reduce pain and is an anti inflammatory. He is turned out for 5 hours per day to try reduce swelling and try keep him happy in himself.
He is currently not sudated for the application on cream. Although is slightly wary of the cream on sheath and inner thigh. He may get twitched next week if cannot get near him.

I have pics for updates but cant see where to upload them.. If you want to see them, pm me :) x
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Another update on Sarcoid and treatment.

He recieved his 3rd treatment yesterday (Monday 11th May) and so treatment has finished for sarcoid or girthline and the one on hind inner thigh. The one on his sheath will recieve the last treatment on Thur.

He is still on Dannillon AM & PM every day. He seems happy in himself with his 4 -5hours turnout. I have been lucky with the weather and little flies around (touch wood).
He is very swollen in his sheath. I am montioring him to make sure still urinating. The one on girthline is scabby and slighly swollen, although area itself is maybe 3 times size it should be. The one on hind inner thigh is more bloddy and skin slightly raw.

Hope this helps if anybody else is considering Liverpool Cream.
 
Mine started the 1st of 5 treatments of Liverpool cream yesterday, plus he had one lasered on his face and another on his ear. One between his buttocks was banded as last year's Liverpool treatment had not worked. Because I currently live 300 miles away so cannot visit him, my vet sent me a photo of him looking very chilled turned out in a paddock of thick grass today.

This is the 4th time we have had to use Liverpool cream. The first time, 18 months or so ago, we kept him in, but on all other occasions since we have turned him out a few hours after the cream has been applied and once it's dried. He also tends to be sedated for the cream application because he has so many, and so we wait until the sedation has worn off. It seems to keep him happier being turned out during treatment.
 
Thanks HelenS.

He will recieve his final treatent tomorrow (Thur) on sheath only. He seems happy in himself and is getting back to his usual cheeky behaviour lol. I agree, turnout definetly helps them. The vet has said turnout helps with the pain / uncomfortableness (is that a word hehe) and swelling as they are moving about rather than standing in stable. He is still on danillon AM and PM.
I have been prity lucky with the weather as still relatively cold here in Glasgow, little flies about. Everybody is praying for some sunshine, but im hoping it stays miserable and cool for another couple of weeks so flies stay away, at least until it scabs over hehe.

xx
 
I'm not so far from you Bertie84. I'm up in Argyll and that is where my youngster will be coming once his 'wounds' have dried a bit. Not too many flies and midges here either yet, but watch this space...... starting collecting all the fly repellents and rugs now ready for action.

From my experience they are definitely better out and distracting themselves, but fly control is important.

Hope everything goes well with him.
 
HelenS said:
I'm not so far from you Bertie84. I'm up in Argyll and that is where my youngster will be coming once his 'wounds' have dried a bit. Not too many flies and midges here either yet, but watch this space...... starting collecting all the fly repellents and rugs now ready for action.

From my experience they are definitely better out and distracting themselves, but fly control is important.

Hope everything goes well with him.
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Uhh hope everything goes well for yours too. Ponios...they are such a worry hehe. Im the same collecting every bit of flu repellant and ideas hehe.
His wounds look prity dry just now but last treatment today on sheath only so could be angry looking later today. Hes also a youngster..thats why i decided to get him done now rather than wait. Love and hugs to your ponio :) xxx
 
My youngster has a smll sarcoid on her chest by her front leftleg we have treated with tumeric after seeing results on a friends horse and that's been brilliant. For turnout she wears a snuggy hood bug body I've found it's the best rug for keep the flies off her as she sometimes has bad reactions to fly bites and if it's particularly midgey (we live by a river :( ) then I will also put hr hood and face cover on. They are expensive but for me it's been worth it as the rug has lasted well and keep her happy :)
 
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