sarcoids on new horse and one with ringbone, help!!

Dear All please read properly the posts..
lets try again..
Horse breeder, good breeding, meaning I hoped buying a good breeding would mean it would be a quality horse. Small breeder, so th ought she would care for her horses. 4 year old horse, in field, unbroken, been there all winter, young horses can be poor, as it has been out with no rug all winter, Quainton stud does this. Saw horse was small and a little poor, but thought it was due to have growth spurt. thick winter coat as not had rug, but this is normal or young horses.
The 1 k is what I have spent over the course of having htis horse, not for sarcoid alone.
No one is blaming anyone, I am simply saying this horse had them prior to purchase and therefore she must have known they were there and should have told me, in which case I would not have bought it.
I am paying her the extra money. for th other horse.
I have called trading standards and they say I am covered under trade descriptions act, this is what they say.
Has anyone actaully read the first mail??
 
I would imagine that if there are that many and are spreading over the shoulders so fast then ringworm is something you should consider unless you have a vets diagnosis for sarcoid. It would be unusual to have so many so quickly with apparently no evidence even under a winter coat.
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Really, really good point.
 
I am simply saying this horse had them prior to purchase and therefore she must have known they were there and should have told me, in which case I would not have bought it.
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If it was as unhandled as you claim - then unless she was a mind reader - then I wouldn't assume she knew they were there.

I thought it was 3??
 
ponykiss69 said:
Dear All please read properly the posts..
lets try again..
Horse breeder, good breeding, meaning I hoped buying a good breeding would mean it would be a quality horse. Small breeder, so th ought she would care for her horses. 4 year old horse, in field, unbroken, been there all winter, young horses can be poor, as it has been out with no rug all winter, Quainton stud does this. Saw horse was small and a little poor, but thought it was due to have growth spurt. thick winter coat as not had rug, but this is normal or young horses.
The 1 k is what I have spent over the course of having htis horse, not for sarcoid alone.
No one is blaming anyone, I am simply saying this horse had them prior to purchase and therefore she must have known they were there and should have told me, in which case I would not have bought it.
I am paying her the extra money. for th other horse.
I have called trading standards and they say I am covered under trade descriptions act, this is what they say.
Has anyone actaully read the first mail??
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Yes I did read the first post.

How do you know she knew they were there? You couldn't see them under the winter coat, nor the vet, so why could she? The horse was unhandled, by your admission, so it if VERY possible that they also weren't there last summer when they would have been more visable.

Just because it is well bred does not mean anything. The horse I bought has an excellent pedigree... Doesn't mean it is more or less likely to get any condition.
 
ponykiss69 said:
Dear All please read properly the posts..
lets try again..
Horse breeder, good breeding, meaning I hoped buying a good breeding would mean it would be a quality horse. Small breeder, so th ought she would care for her horses. 4 year old horse, in field, unbroken, been there all winter, young horses can be poor, as it has been out with no rug all winter, Quainton stud does this. Saw horse was small and a little poor, but thought it was due to have growth spurt. thick winter coat as not had rug, but this is normal or young horses.
The 1 k is what I have spent over the course of having htis horse, not for sarcoid alone.
No one is blaming anyone, I am simply saying this horse had them prior to purchase and therefore she must have known they were there and should have told me, in which case I would not have bought it.
I am paying her the extra money. for th other horse.
I have called trading standards and they say I am covered under trade descriptions act, this is what they say.
Has anyone actaully read the first mail??
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From your sumation I'm really not sure what your issue is! Horses cost, you have spent 1K? So? you saw the horse, had it vetted, were happy with what you saw and what the vet said and you decided to buy it. Your choice and no one held a gun to your head. I'm not sure why you don't think it is a quality horse because it has developed a health problem - it happens!
I really think you should be careful putting up names, seems you have a pretty shaky prob with a horse you bought.

Does anyone else smell troll?
 
amymay said:
If you have paid out £1k for the treatment of the sarcoids - wow, I'm gobsmacked. I've never heard of them costing that much to treat....
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chippies sarcoids have cost £3.3k to treat and counting....




why is everyone jumping on the OP?

she has every right to be upset, and vent a bit of frustration, dont we all?

she brought a horse that was fully vetted and now it turns out that infact there was something wrong with it that was there when the previous owner had it which they failed to mention. I would be feeling pretty hard done by and be extremely angry with the vet and, although im a bunny hugger and belive in horses for life etc etc I would expect the breeder to exchange the horse for another without the ailment.

ontop of that she already has a horse who is unwell and could be doing without the hassle. A horrible situatuion to be in no doubt, which I think none of us would like to be in, so maybe help trying to find a solution rather than to critisise her would be more helpful..?
 
amymay said:
No. To be fair, I think the OP may well have been very niaive. Paid far too much for something - and is now regretting it.
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What she ^^^^ said...
I think that the realisation that OP's £4K hasn't bought her the next Milton/Tamarillo/whatever is hurting her a lot, but TBH I would not expect the breeder to exchange it, OP went to see the horse, had it vetted and decided to part with the money. I think the only issue she might have would be with the vet who performed the vetting, but then again, it would be rather tricky to prove he/she missed sarcoids as there is no way of telling if they were there or not.
 
OP does not say how the horse was vetted. 1 or 2 stage? I didn't think you could get a full 5 stage vetting if it isn't ridden. Also if it was virtually un handled and could not pick up it's legs, then how were the flexion tests carried out for a 2 stage vetting? A 1 stage is just looking at it's passport, microchip, heart and head/mouth isn't it? (not too sure).

If the horse was virtually un handled, covered in fluff, then I'm assuming the vet (and owner) would not have been able to run their hands all over to feel for sarcoids. And there is no way to prove they were there whilst in the breeders care.
 
amymay said:
No. To be fair, I think the OP may well have been very niaive. Paid far too much for something - and is now regretting it.
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^^ what she said

And also...... what they say ----->>
martlin said:
I think that the realisation that OP's £4K hasn't bought her the next Milton/Tamarillo/whatever is hurting her a lot, but TBH I would not expect the breeder to exchange it, OP went to see the horse, had it vetted and decided to part with the money. I think the only issue she might have would be with the vet who performed the vetting, but then again, it would be rather tricky to prove he/she missed sarcoids as there is no way of telling if they were there or not.
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HI aLL
Yes I am peed off, red faced, and upset by having to deal with yet more problems.. No troll.
The horse is 3 rising 4 this spring... no ****! LOL!
I am a bit surprised at the response, it is surprising that you are all willing to accept what is dealt to you without question.
Responsibility for its health is paramount here, no one is disputing that..
Yes I am at fault for buying a horse that is giving me more issues, but most dealers would exchnage if you are unhappy..
Oh well I guess no one here here has had the wool pulled over their eyes?
thanks for all your advise
Goodbye
 
I am sorry but even if breeder did know it had sarcoids why should she tell you? Unless you asked the question and she said no, then I still don't see why it is her problem. Lets be honest here whether breeder, dealer or private sale no one is going to list to a propospective purchaser all a horses problems. If it had thick winter coat and was unhandled then to be honest what a good time to get rid of something with a problem. As the saying goes "buyer beware".....
 
You said you bought from a small breeder, not a dealer. There is a big difference!
Sorry that all the replies have not been helpful but there isn't much you can do unfortunately. It is the risk you run with buying horses.
 
Yes I am at fault for buying a horse that is giving me more issues, but most dealers would exchnage if you are unhappy..
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You didn't buy from a dealer though??:confused:

Oh well I guess no one here here has had the wool pulled over their eyes?
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More than probably care to admit.......:D

And you certainly live and learn. I have.
 
I'm sure most people who have anything to do with horses have had the wool pulled over their eye, I know I have and it sucks. But, I can see that I could have helped avoid it by being more of a canny buyer. It is rubbish, but I wasn't after blaming someone as it wasn't anyones fault, it was my own lack of experince, knowledge and confidence when buying that lead to it. You live and learn.
 
I'm sorry to hear your new horse has sarcoids but its not the end of the world, they can be treated.

You as well as the vet should of gone over the youngster, therefore you AND your vet should of picked up on the sarcoid if it was present at the time of vetting/viewing, despite a thick winter coat.

If the sarcoid was not there, then it's just one of those things, they can grow that quickly depending on what sort of sarcoid it is, in which case again I don't see why the previous owner should exchange.

Also you should always use your own vet, certainly not one the vendor has recommended, specially if they are dealers....even good well known dealers, there are some dodgy vets out there.

I can't believe you paid 4k for a youngster that was in poor condition, well bred or not, you should still know if a horse is in reasonable condition in full coat, if it wasn't at 4k from a respectable breeder, that in its self would ring alarm bells.

Some people are too quick to hand over vast amounts of money for horses because they are too trusting and too wrapped up in buying their dream horse, what ever has gone on here it does sound unfair or perhaps not full story but you’ll just have to put it down to experience, buyer beware etc, the vendor has not done anything wrong when it comes to sale of the horse.
 
heather_bambi said:
You could ask the owner but I don't think that she is inclined to give you any money back. Sarcoids is just one of those things that can happen to any horse, well bred or not. There is no evidence that suggests that sarcoids are genetic and passed down from the parents. Either the vet missed them or lied (which I do not think they would do), or he has developed them since being with you. Sarcoids can develop very quickly.

Agree that you could contact the vet and have a chat, but better to just get your vet out and get them treated straight away :)
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I have just returned horse to dealer with sarcoids - my dealer was very helpful fortunately for me but was a definite case that the vet did lie I'm afraid, he too was recommended by the seller/dealer (big mistake on my part!) and once I made him aware I had evidence from 2 vets in my area that they were def in situ at vetting, although not easily apparent to an untrained eye (I was only aware once got him home and started the grooming process) he instigaged the return for me. So sorry for you - I know how upsetting a discovery this is and I wish you luck in exchanging your new one. Failing that ditto everyone else, claim off insurance and get treated quickly. Best of luck x
 
ponykiss69 said:
Dear All please read properly the posts..
lets try again..
Horse breeder, good breeding, meaning I hoped buying a good breeding would mean it would be a quality horse. Small breeder, so th ought she would care for her horses. 4 year old horse, in field, unbroken, been there all winter, young horses can be poor, as it has been out with no rug all winter, Quainton stud does this. Saw horse was small and a little poor, but thought it was due to have growth spurt. thick winter coat as not had rug, but this is normal or young horses.
The 1 k is what I have spent over the course of having htis horse, not for sarcoid alone.
No one is blaming anyone, I am simply saying this horse had them prior to purchase and therefore she must have known they were there and should have told me, in which case I would not have bought it.
I am paying her the extra money. for th other horse.
I have called trading standards and they say I am covered under trade descriptions act, this is what they say.
Has anyone actaully read the first mail??
Click to expand...

Believe me, I'm trying, really, really trying, but your posts are very hard to understand.

How many sarcoids does the horse have now? How many did it have when you first discovered then? How long after the vetting did you discover a/the sarcoid(s)? Did you tell the breeder as soon as you found them? Have they offered to take the horse back/swap/partial reimburse you? Or is this idea of a swap purely your idea? Was the horse only 2 stage vetted? Why did you pay £4K for a youngster you describe as 'poor'?

There seems to be very little common sense behind your actions, so you must understand why people are asking so many questions. :confused:
 
OP- you knew that the horse was relatively unhandled before you bought it- you cant blame the seller for that. Although i dont approve at all of breeding and doing no handling, you viewed the horse and decided to buy it.

You had a vetting too. And apparently neither the sarcoids or poor condition were noticed. Therefore you need to speak to the vet! You have no come back on the seller- you had professional adice and hence bought the horse- how is this the sellers fault.

One more thing- why on earth should a seller swap your horse for one thats 2.5k more??
 
Have only read page one...the screamilngly obvious thing to me is...

If you had had the horse A MONTH why did you only notice the sarcroids after a month...did you not groom/check over etc your horse? Winter coat or not you can still feel through it?
 
To last posted, yes groomed the horse, the sarcoids are between its legs, it is unbroken and the coat is thick as it did not have a rug on over the winter as this is the practice with young horses and some breeders.
No I did not expect the horse to be totally handled, but a small breeder should handle there stock enough to make sure it can at least be touched. This young animal woud not let me even touch it very much when i got it, so it took time for it to trust me enough to groom and touch it all over.
Occult sarcoids are flat, they are no more than thick patches of skin and are viral, some say hereditory..

Please if all you want to do is ask dumb questions and have a pick, don't answer, only snesible advise please.If I had known that the only answers I would get were about my horse keeping skills and character assasinating I would never have asked.
For goodness sakes, I have had horses all my life, I groom my horses, I feed them and I am not a piss taker, liar etc as has been incinuated..
What sort of people say that sort of thing, makes me wish I was not a horsey person, you must all jusge others by your own standards.

Some people have made good points and to them I say thanks, these include talking to the vets, not being so naive in future and not taking anyone word for it!!

Overall, its not been terribly constructive, not coming on this site again!!
 
ponykiss69 said:
To last posted, yes groomed the horse, the sarcoids are between its legs, it is unbroken and the coat is thick as it did not have a rug on over the winter as this is the practice with young horses and some breeders.
No I did not expect the horse to be totally handled, but a small breeder should handle there stock enough to make sure it can at least be touched. This young animal woud not let me even touch it very much when i got it, so it took time for it to trust me enough to groom and touch it all over.
Occult sarcoids are flat, they are no more than thick patches of skin and are viral, some say hereditory..

Please if all you want to do is ask dumb questions and have a pick, don't answer, only snesible advise please.If I had known that the only answers I would get were about my horse keeping skills and character assasinating I would never have asked.
For goodness sakes, I have had horses all my life, I groom my horses, I feed them and I am not a piss taker, liar etc as has been incinuated..
What sort of people say that sort of thing, makes me wish I was not a horsey person, you must all jusge others by your own standards.

Some people have made good points and to them I say thanks, these include talking to the vets, not being so naive in future and not taking anyone word for it!!

Overall, its not been terribly constructive, not coming on this site again!!
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Thats a shame, becasue this site is brilliant for honest advice.

Why on earth did you buy a horse that had been unhandled if you were going to complain that it is unhandled? Similarly, why did you buy a horse which had a thick coat if you were going to have a problem with it?

If it makes you feel better, I bought a youngster that has turned out to be a nightmare, within 2 days of having him it was clear he was a bit of a knob head (he pulled the entire wall off of his stable on day 2...and has cost us nearly £14k in total in vets fees, and is currently having blood tests becasue we think he is a rig...but that is my problem, not the person I bought him off!
 
A very similar thing happened to me. I bought a unhandled 3yo with good breeding from a small family breeder. I had a vet look over the horse, but as the horse was unhandled, no formal vetting could be preformed. Vet liked the horse and could see nothing wrong with it. I went ahead and bought the horse (paying a similar amount as OP). Got horse home, started getting the horse used to being handled. After 2 weeks, when the horse was beginning to be groomed happily I found a sarcoid by his sheath. It must have been there when the vet looked at him, but it never crossed my mind to complain the the vet or the breeder. When you buy unhandled horses you take a risk, sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Vets are not infalable (sp), if the horse is unhandled they will not be able to do a full vetting, and things will be missed. My horse's sarcoid has now grown to the size of a ping pong ball, it is now very obvious. My vet has left it until now, but now we are going to treat it due to the size. I would never think the breeder was at fault, if myself and my vet missed it, why should the breeder have noticed it?
 
Sorry to hear about the horse you bought had the missed sarcoid...

Yes I agree vets not infalable, I agree he may have missed the sarcoids.. This is why I asked the breeder to swap the horses, I am paying to do everything, change the horses, pay for the transportation etc.

I am surprosed though at the amount of people who say that they have no comeback when clearly someone shoud be responsibe for supplying a fit, healthy horse. If it had been 6months or a year, then fair does, but 2 days, or a month, humm surely something wrong with that?:)
 
I can understand why you are peeved. Unfortunately, when it comes to breeding and selling animals, there are a lot amoral characters about who aren't worried about a bit of bad press, just care about the ££££££££s,
 
I find the story changin from one sarcoid between the legs to sarcoids everywhere a tad suspicious, also if I had had a new horse for a month there is no way I would want to give it back, unless of course it was too much for me.

Am confused too on the story as it keeps changing however in all circumstances imo the breeder is not to blame! Amymay is spot on, I would take note of her advice and heed it!
 
ponykiss69 said:
I am saying well known stallion because I do not wish to mention the breeder.
MY Vet says they were there before purchase, I have had the horse for one month, when you buy a young horse you do so on good faith, breeders should rely on their reputations, she was bought for apurpose and now this may not be realised as these sarcoids are all over her and in areas that mean they could break and bleed.
Why should I deal with the sarcoids, she also was so poor I had her bloods done and there maybe worm damage. this horse has clearly not been looked after and 4k is allot of money to pay for a horse that is sold for a certain job and its breeding waived as excellant only to find that it has been shoddily looked after and is not as sold in advertisment.
I have spent 1k already on vets fees to clear up her mess, do you think that is a good breeder????:eek:
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1st of all, its a sarcoid not the end of the world.

you say
she also was so poor I had her bloods done and there maybe worm damage.
well you suggest you had her vetted before so get the vets that done the vetting to run the bloods?
also if you cant reconise a poor horse under a winter coat, then im sorry but If it was me id question my own abilty. surely you touched it? ran your hands over it?

you say
do you think that is a good breeder????:

I think she is an average breeder and like a lot of horses, they have had a hard winter. you as the buyer .. it is up to you to determind the horses condition at a viewing.. again surley this was something that would of been noticed at the vetting.

sorry but i dont think you have any grounds to ask the breeder to swap the horse.
 
gummybear said:
Im afraid to say I agree with amymay - if you had the horse vetted then surely the sarcoids were picked up at the time of vetting so you were aware that they were there and decided to continue with the purchase of the horse, so I would say that you have no right to expect the dealer to refund/swap the horse for another.
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Got to agree with this too.Sarcoids are visible on a winter coat,my cob has one between his front legs and I got it treated with BLOODROOT CREAM and it bought it right down.
 
Well if its any compensation I ve just bought an unhandled 4 year old from Ireland that was supposed to be halter trained etc etc and wormed and he has two sarcoids on in his axilla and the other on his sheath. I bought him unseen and didnt have him vetted.
He is almost unhandleable, has a high worm count over 700, despite breeder saying he had been wormed and well handled, and horse arrived looking very poor indeed.
I did not believe a word the breeder said so rationalised it out that at 16.1hh ID/cob he was worth about £1200 and thats what I paid.
I think your biggest issue is the amount you ve paid for you animal. I feel the same about my horses breeder in that he should have known about the sarcoids after all he has had him for years, but these can be influenced by the immune status of the horse so its possible they may go when that improves. I must say though you do have rather a lot on your filly.
Would think really that legally your vet would be most liable.
Perhaps you should make a claim against them, though not sure how you would go about it.
 
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