Sarcoids - to buy or not to buy?

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Franabella

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Hi I'm hoping some of you could perhaps offer advice or share similiar experiences.

After viewing a rising 4 yr old WB gelding with a view as an all-rounder type, I decided he was perfect for me. I arranged a 5 stage vetting which the owner was more than happy to go ahead.

Unfornately the vet discovered the horse has 4 sarcoids, unknown to the owner. 1 on his sheath, upper thigh, belly and the worst - on his eye. I always had the assumption that sarcoids always had a wart like appearance but his are flat and just look like old scars.
Obviously he failed the vetting for this, however, the vet said he is a really lovely horse and he has known people to knowingly buy horses with sarcoids.

I've done some research into the condition (http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/index.htm - was particularly insightful), and the prognosis seems improved due to his age and because failed treatment has not yet occurred.

I'm just really unsure as what to do. He is really perfect in all other respects. The vet says they are causing him no problems now and there is a chance he could be successfully treated, but there is always the risk of them coming back or him developing more.

My heart says yes, but my head says no.

I'd love to hear about experiences from those who have owned horses with sarcoids and any views you may have - including any insurance experiences regarding this condition.

Thanks,

Francesca
 
Not to buy. A friend got caught out after buying a pony with sarcoids. They spread onto the girth area which eventually meant the pony could not be ridden.
 
If the horse is perfect in every other way for you and they haven't been treated and failed then I would still buy but the sarcoids would reflect on the price. My big girl had one that we had treated by the vet and up to now it hasn't come back and no new ones have appeared. Unless it is a really bad case then I think sometimes the word "sarcoid" frightens people more than it should.
Hope this helps
 
My arab had a sarcoid on his eye lid when I had him at 3 years old, we rubbed the sap of a dandilion on it every morning and night and after about 2 months it vanished!

Another horse at our yard also had problems with a few sarcoids and she fed Global Herbs Sarc-ex and they went really quickly. My pony who is out on loan has just developed one on his back (he is 23 and has never had one before) and his loan mum has just started him on the same supplement.
http://www.globalherbs.co.uk/equine/sarc-ex.html

I'd so for it to be honest, you could knock some off the price for the fact they are there and then get her on global herbs.

Good luck
 
Buy only if you can accept that:
-You might well have to spend a fortune on vets bills as they WON'T be insureable (as picked up on vetting)
-The horse might well have a shorter life span
-The horse might well have to be retired early

They might sit there and do nothing and he might never get a new one or they might multiply at an alarming rate. It's just a gamble. He seems rather young to have 4 distributed around his body. My horse had one removed from his eyelid at 4yo, it regrew and we removed it again at 5yo (very tricky operation as not much eyelid to work with and he no longer has a functioning tear duct on that side). Then nothing until a couple of months ago (aged 15) when a huge one appeared on his tail which we removed. If you do buy, make sure he's CHEAP! Good luck whatever you decide!
 
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I have just done exactly the same thing!

I bought Hugo 2 weeks ago and thought he was the perfect horse but on the 5 stage he had 4 sarcoids, 1 nodular and 3 flat ones all around his sheath area - unknown to the owner. However, the vet did pass him.

Luckily, Hugos old owner was fantastic and very understanding. We discussed in depth and in the end I had him at half the price and we are keeping his insurance going for the next 30 days to send photos to Derek in Liverpool.
 
I think it depends very much on the type and age of the horse.. I don't have a huge amount of experience in them, my mare has had 1 in her life (15 years this year) it was removed with liverpool cream very successfully. My vet said that because of the age of my mare when she got the sarcoid it meant she was pretty immune to the herpies virus that causes them. Horses have varying degrees of immunity. the younger they are when they get them the lower the immunity.

It also depends on the type of sarcoid. Some are easy to treat and others are impossible. Go on the advise of your vet. But definately get the price down if you still want to go ahead on the purchase. The horses value is definately reduced, and you have to consider the condition will not be insured, so any treatment will have to be funded by yourself AND consider the ability to sell the horse on if you have to for any reason.
 
Thank you for all the advice. It seems like everyone has had different experiences.

I've spoken to the owner and asked for some more time to consider, I know she will adjust the price to reflect this.

The vet did take pictures which he advised the owner to send to Liverpool. Victoria, that sounds like a good arrangement, certainly something I could propose to the owner.

Its the one near the eye that worries me the most. Lindsay, you have had experiences with a sarcoid near the eye, an operation sounds invetably expensive.. are we talking £1000s here?

I think ultimately its weighing up whether you can accept risk. But ultimately I guess even if I managed to find another horse perfectly suited to me without sarcoids, theres always the potential for him to develop them later down the line.

Very tough decision... looks like I won't be getting much sleep for a while longer!
 
The only one that would worry me would be the one on the eye - my lad has a couple on his sheath that have never casued and issue.
As others have said, he would be un - insurable for the sarcoids and treatment can be very expensive, so this needs to be reflected in the price if you do go ahead and buy.
Good luck with whatever decision you take.
 
It's a risk, but my view is that buying a horse is always a risk. You could walk away from this one, buy one with a clean vetting and have problems the next day. There are many, many different kinds of sarcoids, some disappear all by themselves, others recur despite treatment and cause a lot of problems.

Can you afford the treatment without insurance? Can you afford to retire the horse if necessary? Can you afford to 'throw away' the purchase price of this horse if he needs retiring and you want another horse?
 
my pony has one on his sheath. his owner told me about it when i looked at him the first time. she photographed it when she bought him 2 yrs before that and it hadnt changed or grown. and in the yr i've had him it hasnt changed. it didnt bother me because of where it is - not likely to affect tack etc. altho it is something i check every day when i groom him and should it ever change i will then talk to my vet about it. i guess it depends on many factors - where they are and size, if the horse is perfect in every other way, your preference etc etc. bit like any other "fault" really. my personal thought is i would never buy a horse with sweet itch, but others do and manage fine. but the sarcoid didnt put me off my boy and i'm glad it didnt :-) but others would hve been put off.... good luck in your decision.
 
My horse has several when we got him 5 years ago, one was on his eyelid, a couple on his chest and a few spotted around his belly. We bought him knowing of these problems and didnt care less if they were there or not, and he was doing county level working hunter with them. We were only concerned about the one near his eye in case it spread, but we had photographic evidence off his previous owner that it hadnt spread/changed for 3 years. Obviously some sarcoids lie unchanged for years and then develop into something nasty but its just a risk you take.
My horses sarcoids have all since gone, the only treatment we used was efudix cream (£60 a tube, but we still have plenty left) and banded one on his chest and that was it. The one on his chest did rub with rugs for a while and bled a lot, but that stopped after a month and i would honestly buy another horse with sarcoids as long as they arent overwhelming. He cant be insured for skin problems, but is fullly insured with everything else and there are no premiums etc. Obviously this is my opinion but i really dont find small sarcoids an issue, then again i have never had a bad experiance with them.
 
Regards to the sarcoid on the eye, that would also be the one I would be worried about, the others being of little concern at the mo. You are rather limited on treatment options as if it's right by the eye (as China's was) topical treatments aren't suitable. The first time, we let it grow until it was starting to irritate him (about 1cm square) then chopped it off. The second time we removed it much sooner as we knew we had less skin to work with after the first op. The first had to be done under GA (in field) as it's such a tricky area, the second time, we just about got away with doing it sedated. Costs would have been approx mid-high hundreds first time and low hundreds the second time. This is not what I actually paid though as I'm a veterinary nurse so get drugs etc at cost. Exactly where it is is important, China's was literally touching the eyeball, even 1cm below the eye would have been much easier. The one under his tail stayed as an odd flat patch of skin for over a year, before growing to the size of a golf ball in a couple of weeks.
 
Tricky one. Personally , if they were just the flat kind that look liek scars then yes, I would still buy, but at a reduced cost. For a horse under 5k most insurers don't need to see a vets cert anyway. And after having a couple of horses who have been described by vets as "this could be a sarcoid, or could be something else" at vettings it would also worry me less. be prepared to keep him in a dcent fly rug all summer, and that they may or may not spread. If they aren't causing any bother your best to just leave well alone.
 
I had a horse that had 4 one was massive on his tummy. Anyway he was insured and I got them removed. It was done under sedation via laser and 5 night stay at newmarket costing £800 which wasn't too terrible and they never came back. If he's insured with his current owner might be worth asking them to have them removed under the insurance. I also sold a horse that had a few and vet still past him.

I wouldn't worry too much personally but if its really worrying you then might be worth looking into having them taken off (if possible) or get him a bit cheaper. :)
 
Humm.. if the horse is perfect and you can afford to treat them that maybe... but please take into considerations the previous points and get them reflected in the price.

Regarding the one on the eye - one of the horses I ride had one on her eye and it was removed via irranium treatment. This was where irranium wire was passed throught the sarcoid and then irradiated to get rid of the sarcoid. This was expensive (think thousands) but is the most certain way of getting rid of them without them coming back.
 
A friend of mine has just bought a pony for one of her daughters which has a sarcoid on its sheath. the previous owners said it has been stable for 5 years and never caused a problem so my friend has taken a chance in view of the fact the pony was perfect for what she wanted, prince philip cup games and she got the animal at a much reduced price, in fact she would not have been able to afford the pony if he hadnt had the sarcoid, so its a risk that has to be weighed up.
 
If he is perfect in every other way and (and this to me is the important bit) YOU CAN AFFORD TREATMENT WITHOUT INSURANCE (as this won't happen with you knowing of the condition) then yes I don't see why not

If the one near the eye is near it not on it, there are a number of treatments including injecting something into it (the last one I saw was actually a bovine vaccine that apparently destroys sarcoids cells at the same time!!! multipurpose! :) ) or you can surgically remove them or use the treatment studentvet has said (which is expensive!)

The ones on the sheath and thigh I would say would not cause many problems but sarcoids are often better getting treated in my opinion (you can take pictures of all of them and send them to D. Knottenbelt and he will give his professional opinion (he is a sarcoid GOD!)

Just remember that owning a horse has a bit of head and a lot of heart as if there is no connection between you two (even if the horse is 100% in every other way) you just wont enjoy it as much as a horse you adore, even if it has all the querks and lumps and bumps in the world!

Id just say listen to your head a bit.......... and get the price massively reduce to reflect it!
 
Again thanks to all of you for your advice. I really appreciate it. Its been reassuring to hear that there are some happy stories out there contrary to the numerous horrific storied!

I definitely need more time to consider it all but I'm starting to feel that they are not nessecarily the be all and end all of the horse.

I've got a lot of thinking to do and as many of you have advised, I will seriously look into my finacial situation to ensure I have the funds for treatment and implications if needed. Thankfully the owner has been very understanding and appreciates that the price needs to reflect the situation.

He truely is a wonderful horse and I already adore him. Thanks Lucy, you have a really good point about more heart than head!
 
lindsayH said:
Regards to the sarcoid on the eye, that would also be the one I would be worried about, the others being of little concern at the mo. You are rather limited on treatment options as if it's right by the eye (as China's was) topical treatments aren't suitable. The first time, we let it grow until it was starting to irritate him (about 1cm square) then chopped it off. The second time we removed it much sooner as we knew we had less skin to work with after the first op. The first had to be done under GA (in field) as it's such a tricky area, the second time, we just about got away with doing it sedated. Costs would have been approx mid-high hundreds first time and low hundreds the second time. This is not what I actually paid though as I'm a veterinary nurse so get drugs etc at cost. Exactly where it is is important, China's was literally touching the eyeball, even 1cm below the eye would have been much easier. The one under his tail stayed as an odd flat patch of skin for over a year, before growing to the size of a golf ball in a couple of weeks.
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Thanks Lindsay, to be honest I was expecting a higher cost than that and while undoubtably each case is unique to the individual, its been very reassuring to hear your horse was treated successfully even in this tricky area :).

I think I will ask the owner to forward on the pictures to me so I can send these on to this so called 'sarcoid god' of liverpool university for another opinion!

The owner is also arranging for another vet to give a second opinion on them.
 
i certainly wouldn't discount the horse if he is perfect and the owner is willing to accept an offer.

i would however, get the photos sent to Liverpool before making a decision- particularly the eye one.

i have a horse with sarcoids- he has had 3 so far (4yro now) and each time they have been zapped with Liverpool cream as they appeared, working so far!
 
Just to add to the happy stories:
F had a little lump which the vet described as "either a sarcoid or not" at the vetting and that disappeared all by itself in the next year. R developped a sarcoid on his sheath which popped off when the vet came to see it and hasn't returned in a year.

Unfortunately though there are many different types of sarcoids and you never know.
 
the flat type are Verrucous sarcoids, I know someone whos horse had what was thought to be one on a few weeks ago under his eye, it was treated and has gone. I had a horse with one on his leg, treated and it went never came back.
 
I've replied in vets hun. But please do take enormous care. Many, many owners think that their horse has a sarcoid and they "successfully2 treat it with all sorts of weird and wonderful things. But it's a 99.9% certainty that weird and wonderful "cures" have just "cured" a warty thing that would have dropped off on its own anyway. True sarcoids are cancers and Prof Knottenbelt - a world expert on sarcoids in horses, amongst other things - advises that the only predictable thing about sarcoids is their unpredictability. If the vetting has definitely identified these lumps as sarcoids then you could be buying an expensive heartache, where treatment won't be covered by insurance, any further health problems might not be covered by insurance (if they could say it was linked to the sarcoid) and you could end up with an unrideable horse. The sarcoid on the eye alone is reason enough to walk away. Depending on the position of the sarcoid, treatment could be at best hideously expensive and at worst almost impossible. My horse had to have an eye removed for a different reason and the 6 month battle plus the surgery to remove it when all options had failed cost £4,000. Covered by insurance thank god but yours wouldn't be.
 
dont buy. having had one pony put down due to sarcoids and having paid £3.6k for sarcoid treatment for the current horse its really not worth it, alot of pain and heatache, and alot of money later you could be left with no horse :(
 
Personally I wouldn't. I bought a horse in spring a few years ago with two sarcoids. The vet came to have a look and said I should leave them till October to treat so as to avoid flies? Well by August the horse had knocked the top off one of the sarcoids and despite wearing a fly rug and taking all the precautions we could they spread like crazy. He ended up with masses of them under the skin causing like a bubble wrap type look on the surface as they didn't come through as such and maybe ten extras on his flank and face including his muzzle and round his eye.

The vet came back again and sent pictures to Liverpool but there were so many by this point it was a case of only treating a few at a time and they just multiplied. Long story short the bill was running into thousands for a horse we paid little for in the knowledge of the Sarcoids but then couldn't be ridden and whatever had triggered them to become so agressive didn't want to stop. Cue lots of heart ache and no riding. Even though we got the horse cheap it was incredibly expensive with the treatment and I wouldn't go through it again. I know lots of people have positive stories and this is why we took the horse on but in this case it was the wrong decision.
 
I will seriously look into my finacial situation
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Your heart says BUY! Your head says NO INSURANCE! How about this for a middle way.....If you buy for a reduced figure you could use the saved money to set up your own 'insurance' fund and add to it each month as though you were paying into a policy. In this way you would accumulate a sum of money if you needed it give yourself peace of mind and - hey! - you get to keep the money for something else if you didn't require treatment for the sarcoids. I have succsssfully done this myself for different issues and it worked for me. Money still untouched and earning me interest in an ISA account. It is a gamble until you build up a good fat useful fund but for me it has been great! :D
 
Most people run at the mention of 'sarcoids', but buying a horse is a risk in itself.

I baught a very good competition horse 2 years ago. Whom I wouldnt have been able to afford him if he hadnt of had sarcoids, as I really got him at a bargin price. He was also 12 years old - and they hadnt affected him yet.

I also think it depends on you. Do they worry you? Sarcoids do not worry me, and I have left my horse alone, just keeping an eye on them - some have grown, then fallen off, then re grown ect ect. But not causing him any issues. They are unsightly and occasionally I do get comments on them - they worry other people more than they do me!

The thing that I would be doubting in your situation - is his age. Do you plan to sell him on? Or what happens if he's not good enough for you, will you need to sell him ect? Because your never going to get much for him. For a horse who is 12 and never had any issues with sarcoids, that didnt worry me. But I think as a 4 year old, I would really need to think about it.

Hope everything goes well, and i'm sure you'll make the best choice!
 
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