Sarkozy

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eika

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I am thinking of using Sarkozy this year and wondered if anyone else had used him and what their foals are like? I am quite interested in the foals temperaments as my mare can be quite sharp.
I have heard Sarkozy himself has a sweet temperament but would like to find out what his foals are like.
Thanks
 
I have a friend with 2 Sarkozy foals and both, even though STUNNING and amazingly talented, etc. have proved VERY sharp. Both handled extensively since birth and still just not people friendly.....not nasty...just would rather not be with people. She too had no idea this was a trait as his temp as you say is lovely but since them she has heard of others that are also sharp (yet talented) however on a sharp mare I would not use....sorry.
 
my friend rides him LOL. I also wouldnt use him on a sharp mare. He is veyr kind to handle but I think quite cheeky under saddle. Really put on a lot of topline over the last year but actually not that substabtial a horse. I actualy wouldnt use the SH line on a sharp/sensitive mare anyway, unless you are a pro and like the extra fizz under saddle
 
Gosh you should come and meet ours (Sandro Hit x Weltruhm (weltmeyer) x Matcho AA), he's possibly the most laid back horse ever, lol!!
This is obviously something he passes on, as his foals have his relaxed temperament. I definitely wouldn't describe him or his offspring as sharp, he is a very relaxed easy horse both to handle and ride.
 
Whilst not having used Sandro Hit himself, I have had mares give birth to foals by his sons -

Samarant, Scolari and San Amour ...

- the foals have all been, without exception, very easy, people friendly and a joy to have around from the go-get - and from very different mares - so I am glad to read that it is not only my mares who are capable of producing such stock!

Moreover, all who visited/bought those foals continue to say how well behaved and laid back they are - which is wonderful for me to hear.

And I have a mare (His Highness x Longchamp x Bolero) in foal to Sarkozy for an April 2011 baby - and I am absolutely beside myself with excitement to see what my mare produces - I have no doubt that this one will also be laid back and friendly - and anyone who wishes to come and see him/her with their own eyes and witness the temperament first-hand would be most welcome!
 
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For completeness sake, I probably should also have added that I have been so impressed with the Sandro Hit line that I used a grandson twice last year and I am awaiting 2 x Surprice (Sir Donnerhall) babies in April 2011 also, one a guaranteed coloured foal!
 
what can I say, I live in Germany and see a lot of SH line. Maybe German mares are sharper or its the way they train them. sH himself was far from easy under saddle but didnt stop him doing so well in YH classes.
Everyone likes diferent things in a stallion, I used a SH grandson once and he had a super attitude to work, wether he trains on to GP remains to be seen.

A jumper stallion over here, Cornet Obolensky, again known to through hotter and more pro types, but I have ridden a few here that are very easy. Same with Weltmeyer, my horse of a life time was by him and the easiest young horse I ever had. Yet a lot of riders find them hot or tricky.

All I was saying was the rider of the horse himself says he is a little difficult under saddle so if the OP is looking most importantly for temperament, why breed to a horse that is difficult when there are other super stallions who would be a bit easier in that department
 
The Sarkozy foal at the stud I work at was an incredibly sharp little thing. Fab paces, stunning looking but so sharp! It also had a right little temper on it, it didn't like being told what to do.

Not trying to put you off but of all the foals by different stallions I have seen and handled from birth, I would not recommend you use Sarkozy on a sharp mare, sorry.
 
I had a SH filly who although extremely beautiful was VERY sharp, to the point where Claire said, mother its me or the filly......................... I did have to think about it for a while, :D, the filly was sold as a 2 year old a week later. I did hear that she was sold again, as the new owners, who were informed she was sharp, found her difficult. :rolleyes:
 
cruiseline said:
I had a SH filly who although extremely beautiful was VERY sharp, to the point where Claire said, mother its me or the filly......................... I did have to think about it for a while, :D, the filly was sold as a 2 year old a week later. I did hear that she was sold again, as the new owners, who were informed she was sharp, found her difficult. :rolleyes:
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Was that the Sandro Hit x Rohdiamant filly from brightwells auction in 2004? Was it called Samira?
 
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i have used sarkozy last year for reasons of outspoken walk and hopefully interieur/ridability. but you never know if a stallion really embodies these features (genetically manifested in a way they consistantly pass it on to their foals) until their first get is under saddle. also, you simply can't judge any of the stallions ridden by PS people since his riders are outspoken professionals and make any horse look "decent" and suitable under saddle.

so i am looking forward to this foal with mixed emotions, hoping for the best but expecting anything up until i know better in three years from now.
as it does take a few years to really judge about a stallion's quality with respect to interieur/character for the simple reason that "character" and dealing with a horse on the ground says nothing about it's qualities as a riding horse. ridability and "temperment"/character (when speaking about foals) have nothing to do with each other but are usually mixed up in the public opinion and discussion.
a shy or bold foal can be a super ridable horse while the most wonderful foal can turn out useless under saddle for lot's of reasons.

exactly the reason i can only value the real quality of my foals age 3 or 4. and while my breeding program is still "young" (7 years) i have already been surprised in many aspects (to the good or the bad) with the final outcome of my foals once they had to prove their real quality as riding horses.
my most succesful breeding (licensed stallion) who was a super friendly trusting foal of amazing three gates (reason he was licensed) has turned out to be rather "sensible" (too sensible in my opinion) under saddle, plus, his super walk from foal age completely dissapeared under saddle.
super foal?
super sire?
still working on my opinion...

on the other hand, i had a rather bold filly that i wasn't too convinced by all those years i raised her. finally i mounted her myself last year age three and have her in training myself ever since. turns out, this "bold" and not so aimable filly from few years ago is the most convincing riding and sport horse in all three disciplines:
i ride her dressage, jumping and eventing - despite her breeding suggesting that she is a pure dressage horse "only". this is what i saw in her all those years, too, simply for her outstanding gaites she showed in foal age.
obviously, i was wrong.
she is a true multi talented sport horse with the right attitude under saddle when it comes to delivering performance. what i considered a "bold" attitude in foal age has turned out to be the most helpful characteristic item about her under saddle, specially when it comes to eventing: where other horses fail (for reasons of shyness or fear) she simply goes and doesn't ask any questions. the most self confident horse.
noone believes she only turns four this year.
super foal?
super sire?
i have dramatically changed my opinion about her.

you really can't tell much from a young stallion's first get on the ground as noone knows and it really doesn't matter how we value them as foals with respect to behaviour or character.
as ridabilty and behaviour under saddle is a completely different thing.
thus, still a long way to go for sarkozy to deliver valuable indications as a sire.
and while i understand that this is probably a rather unsatisfying answer to the OP's initial question about sarkozy's foals on the ground i dare to say that this is probably the most honest answer you can get at this point in time.

can't wait to see his first kids under saddle.

www.hippologi.com
www.muensterland-pferde.de
 
I just wanted to apologise to those of you who have used any of the stallions we have been talking about in this thread who feel that I may have been too harsh or frank in my opinions. I know I am in a position to see close up a lot of popular stallions and their offspring and there are so many really super ones that in order to seperate out what you love from what you just like, I find I get probably overly critical and blunt.
I think you could pick any of the stallions here and find you get a good foal as PS will only stand stallions they really rate, and they know what works and what wont. I am actually planning on using at least 1 myself this year. Anyway i hope I havent put any of you off and tahnk you Fannie Mae for making some very interesting points in your post.
 
Probably a bit late with this but here goes. I have a very beautiful colt from Sarkozy D.O.B. 20/04/2010, his temperament is faultless. When I got him in February he hadn't been handled much, but he loaded within minutes and travelled perfectly all the way from Devon to Cambridgeshire. His rugs can be put on him while he's loose in the field, including doing up the legs straps. He follows me around like a dog, just amazing! I would have no hesitation in recommending Sarkozy as a sire.
 
This from Fannie Mae bears repeating.

as it does take a few years to really judge about a stallion's quality with respect to interieur/character for the simple reason that "character" and dealing with a horse on the ground says nothing about it's qualities as a riding horse.
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It is so true. How a horse is as a foal/1,2,3 year old often has no indication of what they are like under saddle and for most of us the most important thing is how they are under saddle. Sweet foals do not always make super riding horses. And vice versa.
 
I bred 2 Sarkozy foals last year, to say they were sharp would be an understatement. As yearlings they have matured into very sweet people and easy to deal with. I have sold one of them but the filly I still have I am actually very excited about. She moves very well, has a fantastic walk and takes everything in her stride. I have already decided to keep her and back her myself and go from there.
I couldn't agree with Fannie Mae's comments more, having bought a wild unhandlable 3 yr old years ago who had been written off by her breeders in Germany, i was riding her 2 months later, she was by far the easiest I have ever backed. I am just about to start backing a 3.5 yr old filly who has been very quiet and easy from birth... I am actually more nervous about how she will be!!

I too am looking forward to seeing Sarkozy's first foals under saddle, his oldest must be rising 3??

Back to the OP, I think the SH line should be used carefully on very sharp mares, I think this line in the majority has proved it does produce sharper horses.
 
Interesting thread. After having bred well over 200 foals, in my opinion, the only thing that makes a degree of predictability over how a foal may grow up is the tendency from the mother line. The hottest and most challenging foals quite often love to work and are brilliant under the saddle while the "steady neddies" are perhaps less athletic and energetic and find work difficult or unattractive.

I have a theory that many horses are seen as having bad temperaments because they are just weak and find it difficult. My belief is that this may be true of many Sandro Hit lines, but not at all, all of them. I know from our own breeding that Trakehners too get a bad name for the same reason but just take time to mature.

We have just bought a Sarkozy foal from our mare line (the dam line of Wavavoom) and we cannot wait to watch him develop. We bred his mother by Don Fred. I think Sarkozy needs strong mare types.
 
Interesting post Woodlander. My experience is much less but having had my mare from a foal, backing her, jumping her then training her in dressage to most of GP and now breeding her I am stunned by the mannerisms that her foals have that she had too at their age. Her offspring are too young to be under saddle yet but I hope they continue to take after their dam.

Regarding sharp and work ethic I find there is good sharp and bad sharp. Good sharp is a quick, often nervous horse that wants to run. Bad sharp is an explosive horse that wants to expend more energy bucking and rearing and expressing it's opinion about going forwards than in actually moving. IME the first sort of sharp turn into great horses with huge work ethics. The second sort, even when you have trained forwards into them, tend to be limited in how far they will go in competition because they just don't really love to work.

I also agree that Trakehners (excepting some lines which are a huge minority) get an unfounded bad press. In many ways they are similar to Jazz line horses. They have a lot of energy but their confidence is fragile at first and you have to treat them gently. As they gain experience being ridden and gain trust in their rider they become confident about applying their natural high levels of energy to the work the rider asks of them. Personally I find this sort of horse a delight to ride.

Having seen Sarkozy in the flesh this week I was struck by how little bone he has. I would put him to a middleweight mare only. San Amour may be a good choice for an S line stallion as he is showing ability for GP work already.
 
Interesting what you say SS about Sarkozys bone, both the foals I bred by him have a good amount of bone and they are not out of substantial mares. They certainly have more bone than their dams.
I agree with what you say about the good sharp and bad sharp, I can whole heartily say that both of these foals were in the take flight and run category, they took a long time to gain confidence in people, now they have they are a pleasure.
 
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