Sat here in tears, please help.

Youve had all the advice in the world on this thread and all of it relevant to getting recall. However you must acept that there are just some dogs who will NEVER have a good recall. You may well have one of them. So part of the responsibility of having a dog is exercise and if it has to be on a lead then so be it. You may have to stick to dog parks, a garden, or the generosity of someone who has a well fenced field for off lead exercise. All part and parcel of dogs.
 
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With the electric zap collars though, what makes them come back to you? Rather than just panicking and disappearing off in the other direction?

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I've heard too many reliable stories about dogs being either ruined or taught to not bother about being zapped/squirted at, by an owner using a remote control to zap or squirt their dogs from a distance without knowing how to do it correctly, to agree with an advice written the way Chick1989 has written her reply.


Also, though I hope I might have helped one or two owners on HHO with their dog problems, which in a way could be seen as participating in finding an own solution for that owner, it is not the same thing as getting professional help that in real life can see you and your dog together and I would not discourage people from seeing a behaviourist/instructor.
 
Nothing much more to add to the excellent advice you have got already, ditto, bin the flexi lead and up her exercise, it isn't enough IMO. You need to exercise her mind as well as her brain, a lot of dogs go ASBO at 12 months, it is their teenage time.

I spent a year with my fella on the long line, it won't come overnight. Also, never train her on a full stomach, whatever her allowance is that day for food, have it in your pocket and feed from there, not her bowl, make her work for it.

Also you need to go back to basics and make you be her entire world - all food comes from you, all toys, all praise, and if she wants it, she must come to you to get it and be looking at you too.

With zap collar, timing is key. You can make a buggerer-offerer ten times worse if you zap them at the wrong time and I would not use one without being under the guidance of someone experienced in using them.
 
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With the electric zap collars though, what makes them come back to you? Rather than just panicking and disappearing off in the other direction?

xxxx

[/ QUOTE ]


I've heard too many reliable stories about dogs being either ruined or taught to not bother about being zapped/squirted at, by an owner using a remote control to zap or squirt their dogs from a distance without knowing how to do it correctly, to agree with an advice written the way Chick1989 has written her reply.


Also, though I hope I might have helped one or two owners on HHO with their dog problems, which in a way could be seen as participating in finding an own solution for that owner, it is not the same thing as getting professional help that in real life can see you and your dog together and I would not discourage people from seeing a behaviourist/instructor.

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Agree with you there FLH, I also think the way that post was written sounds rather blase
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I have nothing against shock collars in extreme cases, such as stock worrying, but it's not a first choice for recall issues without exhausting training first
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You still need an experienced person or trainer to teach you how to use them otherwise u are at the same place as not asking for advice re recall or training issues or going to a trainer
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I like the end touch of wasting money on a trainer......I should be told that, when I help and don't charge
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I never used or contemplaited using an electric collar on my pointer, I needed to try for heavens sake.....if not that would have made me a lazy dog owner surely.
 
Lots of really good advice here. Personally I would avoid the shock collar for now as you could easily make it much worse.

I would do a few things - if she eats in the morning normally, cut that out totally and completely, then take her out on a line with the most yumy treat you can think of - roast chicken ncluding the skin is good. She will be more interested in it if she is hungry - when she comes back give her a huge lump and praise her until you feel embarrassed, then praise her some more.

Teaching her little tricks will help you to build a stronger bond so if you haven't already done so, why not train her to do things like roll over, or give a paw?

Find a local class. You could try ringing a few local rescue centres and seeing who they recommend if you don't know who is good in your area. Call them, find out how large the classes are (small is good), explain the issues you are having then go and watch a class to make sure you are happy. Henry crapped all over the floor in his first class, she can't be any worse than that
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A whistle can be good, as others have said she has probably learned that your voice doesn't mean too much. However you must introduce it patiently, starting at home or she will just learn to ignore that as well.

Finally, I would look into channeling some of her instincts as a gundog. You don't need to go to classes or anything for the basic stuff. Does she retrieve already - if not teach her to, you can clicker train this like so http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/Reference/training/clickerretrieve.htm

If she does retrieve, build on that and get her searching for the toy or dummy. If you make yourself part of the game, she will want to stay close. If you look at it from her point of view, she is having a whale of a time off on her own, then mum wants her to go back - no way, booooring! But if you are offering a game of some kind, especially if it a game she already wants to play, this will make life easier. You could also try dropping and rolling about on the floor, yes, I have done this, and yes, he came back as he was fascinated in what I was doing
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Good luck. What you have on your hands there is a stroppy teenager, no doubt, but the fact that she is still so young means that you still have a good chance of getting through this.
 
I would never use an electric collar. They are downright cruel and with a bit of luck will very shortly be banned.

Some breeds are better at recall than others. My Beardies are herdiing dogs and they like to keep close to me, they will run off but it is as though they are attached by a piece of elastic, once they reach a certain distance they'll bomb back to be sure I'm keeping up! Hounds are notoriously bad at recall, they are independent and have a strong instinct to hunt. We have an Otterhound and I can never let her off the lead, she'd find a scent and be off. I once followed her for more than five miles over dykes and muddy fields. Every now and again she'd look back to check I was keeping up!!! When she finds a scent she is off in another world and nothing I do would bring her back. That is sad because it means I cannot let her run free. Luckily we have our own paddocks and she can bomb around in those...but it isn't quite the same as going for a good walk off lead.

Labs are usually pretty good at recall. Don't worry too much, yours really is at the horrible adolescent stage and it will improve. Classes will help both of you and you'll have a lot of fun. The happy, energetic dogs are usually the easiest and most fun to train. Good luck.
 
I would listen to Cayla if I were you, she is the only person I have known who can train a sighthound (Amy) to come off the track of a rabbit this morning and come back when I called
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I was absolutely and totally gobsmacked, I just couldnt believe it
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I have nothing helpful to add to what has already been said, other than labs at that age are definitely going through their teenage phase
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With regards to retrieving, she will go and fetch something, but she doesnt understand to bring it back. I.e. I'll throw her a ball/toy/hoop/whatever, and she'll run to it like a mad thing, pick it up, then drop it and go and do something else. She just doesn't get it. She LOVES running for it, so its not that she doesnt enjoy the game, she just doesn't bring it back.

Erm hang on, I'll go back and read the other points and then post again x
 
Otto was very similar to your bitch, in that outside he was incredibley independant. He didn't react to anything and we tried lots of stuff. In the end we stopped trying to get his attention with noise.

He would be allowed to mooch around on the long line, then the second he got to the end of it we would stop and wait, he had to work out on his own that he had to come right back to us before he got to move on again. We gave him no cues whatsoever apart from checking any move he made to the side, so that it was either stand still or come back. You can end up stood still all day, but eventually they come back. Patience is the most important skill in dog training
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The idea is, if you don't say anything you don't teach the dog to ignore you.

After a few months he was reaching the end of the line and coming back automatically. Then we started introducing commands, as he was returning we would use three pips on the whistle, again the idea being he is doing the behaviour you want already so you are giving him a clear association and no chance to ignore you.
Then we started to ask for the behaviour randomly and once it was established we allowed the lunge line to drop, so he was free but we had 12 foot of rope behind him to grab should he get ahead of himself.

Otto took probably 6 months before he was reliable off the lead, and even now 15 months after getting him, he has his recall worked on every walk we go on.

I know you think she is getting enough exercise, and for many breeds 30 mins would be fine, but when Otto was being trained on the long line I wouldn't even start any serious training until he had 30 minutes walk to calm him down a bit, so his walks were around 50 minutes each time.
Like warming up a horse - some horses take 20 minutes to warm up before you do any form of schooling, so if you only schooled for 20 minutes a day, you'd never get any decent work out of them.

And in terms of treats, hot chicken, but all the gooey gunky stuff at the bottom that no one ever eats, is honest to god the best treat ever! Otto isn't even food orientated outside, but he would do anything for a bit of gooey hot chicken! Soggy skin is his favourite treat in the whole world!
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I haven't read all the posts but I am sure they are full of a lot of advice. Was this a rescue dog or have you had her since a pup?

We had a lab exactly the same - got her at 9 mths from dogs trust. She had been kept in a shed by her elderly owner as she was too much for her and destructive (what dog isn't at that age).

She was a lovely dog but bonkers - hyperactive/nervous excitement i don't know what. She just loved to run and chase things but unlike our other dog she seemed to have no sense of direction so we lost her regularly and would get phonecalls form people as she'd turned up at their houses or was waiting byt their car etc.

We tried a lot of training with her and she did get better but she would sometimes just go as if a switch was flicked and she was obvious to our calls etc. Sadly it was ultimately this which caused her end as she got run over aged 5 yo. It was the most upsetting thing i have ever been through - there was nothing the vets could do as her pine was broken.

I vow I will never get into that situation again and make sure I know my dogs will come back - if I wasn't 100% sure then I would not let them off the lead unless in an enclosed space. Maybe you will have to do the same. I would certainly agree with classes. It is very very hard and I know exactly how you feel but, keeping her on a lead and going for long walks/runs with her may be the answer. Not all dogs can be let off the lead sadly.

With any luck you will be able to sort it - get some professional help, find what 'button' it is you need to press with her.
 
Flamehead please give me a virtual punch if I am speaking out of turn or if someone else has mentioned this, I know how frustrating this is and you do sound very stressed out by the whole thing - this will not help - they key is being the most exciting, fun, attractive person that your dog wants to return to - and if she thinks you are stressing and sweating and worried, she will pick that up and think - no fear, I'm gonna follow this smell, instead!
Be confident, be fun, don't panic, even when it is the last thing you feel like.

In the mean time - I did a bit of training with B in a basketball court today - so he was off lead, but couldn't escape! Obviously no kids in it and he would never have gone in there if he hadn't have toileted first, but somewhere like that with a proper fence would be a great place to practise, as well as the long line.

Would she be reliable enough to run off a bike on lead? So even if you only had 30 minutes, she would be trotting the whole way.
 
CC that is an AMAZING idea! Basketball courts, how fantastic. I shall have to find one somewhere!

Bike has already been mentioned, and she would seriously kill me! She'd bolt off and I'd go flying lol. I might take up jogging though cos she already jogs next to me when we walk but if I ran she'd have to properly run!

xxxx
 
I've no advice to give, just that bin the retractable lead!!! Jack almost ended up under a car one day when we were using one and he had excellent manners on the lead. We went back to a longline and they're fab.
 
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