Saving emaciated horses - tissues at the ready

Those 'rescuers' are nothing more than horse torturers and should be ashamed of themselves for putting the horses through that pain and suffering.

In the 'after' videos, every last one appears lame (therefore probably in pain) and with no viable life.

Hideous video, misguided 'rescuers'. Humane euthanasia would be a blessing for these poor animals.
S :(
 
You've got to wonder how these horses get into this state in the first place and how a rescue gets to deal with so many of them?! Surely moving such an ill animal to their premises would be dangerous for it.

How an animal can come back from that condition and lead any sort of normal life is beyond me.
 
It is so sad how some scum bags will let horses even get into that state in the first place. My first thought was to pts but after seeing the results they all looked fantastic, even the old ones.
 
lelly said:
It is so sad how some scum bags will let horses even get into that state in the first place. My first thought was to pts but after seeing the results they all looked fantastic, even the old ones.
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Possibly because there are too many horses in the USA, and not enough homes or money to feed them. Add to that the brilliant idea that all the horse slaughter facilities should be closed (no one likes the idea of killing pretty ponies), and this is the result.
But no, they don't look 'fantastic', they look like low quality animals with obvious lameness and no viable future.
S :(
 
I don't think they looked too bad after.
As for being low quality with no viable future - one would assume that these horses would be kept within the rescue unless companion / suitable homes were found for them.
 
Blimey, and there was me admiring caring people working hard to give horses a chance at life. I understand not everyone will agree with supporting a horse in a sling if it goes down but it isnt always kinder to write them off.

If that video shows torture then I too am guilty of being a heartless horse torturer when I put my horse through colic surgery, saving his life, and giving him his whole life ahead of him.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
Blimey, and there was me admiring caring people working hard to give horses a chance at life. I understand not everyone will agree with supporting a horse in a sling if it goes down but it isnt always kinder to write them off.

If that video shows torture then I too am guilty of being a heartless horse torturer when I put my horse through colic surgery, saving his life, and giving him his whole life ahead of him.
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I must be heartless too for putting my donkey through surgery to save her life which unfortunately did not work out. I think sandy in the video is my favourite as a beautiful buckskin
 
Shilasdair said:
Possibly because there are too many horses in the USA, and not enough homes or money to feed them. Add to that the brilliant idea that all the horse slaughter facilities should be closed (no one likes the idea of killing pretty ponies), and this is the result.
But no, they don't look 'fantastic', they look like low quality animals with obvious lameness and no viable future.
S :(
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There are also too many horses in the UK but still they tried to save the Amersham horses did they not??? spent a lot of time and money feeding them up and veterinary care.

Since we only saw photos on many of the updates we cannot say they ALL had lameness issues since a photo does not show lameness, a video does.
So let me get this straight just because it is a lower priced horse means it has no right to live or be saved OR it's life means nothing???.
 
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i thought the results were amazing, and assuming they have the same sort of rehoming policies as we do here then im not sure how anyone can say they have no viable quality of life.
 
It depends on how you value them doesn't it .
However the rescuing of very very emaciated horses is not a black and white area and it's very hard to turn away from them when you see the spark of life in them and the trust in humans still intact .
 
Goldenstar said:
It depends on how you value them doesn't it .
However the rescuing of very very emaciated horses is not a black and white area and it's very hard to turn away from them when you see the spark of life in them and the trust in humans still intact .
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exactly this.
There are a lot of people in the horse world who don t keep horses when they can no longer do a job, then there are sentimental people (like me) who form srong emotional bonds with our horses and keep them until they really don t have a quality of life. theres room for us all.
 
When last I heard, colic surgery doesn't involve hoisting your dying horse off the ground (whilst still conscious) and hanging it from slings.
Colic surgery generally has a good prognosis for a first surgery, and a relatively painless, and short (6 weeks) box rest period.

Those poor horses in the video are being hoist, with all the weight on their bellies, and are clearly suffering. It would be a lot kinder to humanely euthanise them.
In the videos of them afterwards, not one is sound. Lameness = continued pain.
And in the USA, the problem is that there are too many horses, not enough owners, and no viable route (slaughter houses) to reduce numbers which horse owners can afford/are willing to pay.
The same has been true in Ireland recently, hence the horse welfare issues there. Luckily in Ireland and the UK we still have abattoirs which is where a lot of the overstock end up, rather than starving to death as in that video.
There are worse things than death.
S :(
 
Whilst I fully understand and empathise with Goldenstar's viewpoint I also agree with this. I often ask myself if some of these horses are 'rescued' more for the rescuer's ego than for their true welfare. Sometimes it's worse than that, a field of emaciated horses and a FB page are a great moneyspinner if presented in the right way. Play on the sympathy of the public and then put in the plea for more land/a farm/ a house etc. And that isn't fantasising, I have seen it happen several times.

My view is that if a rescued horse has a chance of a happy and comfortable life then fair enough. It doesn't need to be rideable but neither should it be in pain from lameness or other issues. If the owner doesn't have the necessary funds to look after it for the rest of it's life, then don't rescue; it's no good relying on fundraising in an overstretched economy and hardly fair if the horse then suffers a second time because of an inability to provide for it's needs.

There are indeed far worse things than death and you only need to go to some of the lower end markets to see that demonstrated,
 
Shilasdair said:
When last I heard, colic surgery doesn't involve hoisting your dying horse off the ground (whilst still conscious) and hanging it from slings.
Colic surgery generally has a good prognosis for a first surgery, and a relatively painless, and short (6 weeks) box rest period.

Those poor horses in the video are being hoist, with all the weight on their bellies, and are clearly suffering. It would be a lot kinder to humanely euthanise them.
In the videos of them afterwards, not one is sound. Lameness = continued pain.
And in the USA, the problem is that there are too many horses, not enough owners, and no viable route (slaughter houses) to reduce numbers which horse owners can afford/are willing to pay.
The same has been true in Ireland recently, hence the horse welfare issues there. Luckily in Ireland and the UK we still have abattoirs which is where a lot of the overstock end up, rather than starving to death as in that video.
There are worse things than death.
S :(
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So you must by rights not agree with the WHW and what they did for this poor little mare hoist her up???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpi-h4xJbw

Or trying to save the Amerhsam horses who were on the brink.

Or is it the sling in general??? which I may add they use to rescue horses too.

Sorry but OP posted this as a pat on the back for these individuals who tried to save some neglected horses like we do I might add in this country.https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolve...On2xH1td3ld2kjc0gTGwVaJ7jNOjbsjUN7BoCupnw_wcB

It was an innocent post and where it will get controversial posts but I think slating to this extent is a little excessive.

So you must be against all the work animal charities do to save all animals be it dog or cat or any wild life. Specially one well known charity helping the horses in Egypt https://www.facebook.com/princefluffykareem?fref=ts

Saving emaciated dogs back to health with heart-worm skin allergies etc. Must be a waste of time let's kill them all and save the tax payers money. I am sure they had vets involved with the cases above with he horses, so to me as long as they are knowledgeable people and get a vet involved to ensure the work carried out is in the horses interest which is brought to light with the end horse which was pts then I say well done to them.
 
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As a cold hearted farmer I am afraid I don't get the whole "rescuing" concept. Yes, if an animal can have a useful life without discomfort, perhaps it is worth rescuing. But otherwise, death is just a date on the calendar.

Death is inevitable. We are all going to die. Our animals are all going to die. Due to lack of evidence, I have to assume there is no after life so when we are dead, we won't be worrying that we should have lived longer. It is those who are left behind who have the concerns.

So, I am with Woody Allen and "It is not the passing but the manner of the passing". If I drop dead five minutes after writing this, it really won't bother me as I won't know or feel anything! Surely it must be no different for unwanted horses? I am damned sure I don't want to be "rescued" and carted off to some charity to end up like my father who (fortunately) died shortly before they had time to amputate both his legs to prevent gangrene caused by poor circulation!

For God's sake, give the poor creatures a quick and merciful end! Just one concession, if surgery will increase the knowledge of veterinary science, it might just be argued that these "rescues" should be treated and nursed back to health. Just don't expect me to contribute.
 
1. The WHW mare - they rescue an emaciated mare which goes down on arrival, they hoist it painfully in a sling, take the sling off. A few hours later, the horse goes down again, and dies. I absolutely disagree that this was in the best interests of the mare, and I imagine that WHW regret that decision. Euthanising that mare the first time she went down, or at the original site would have been best for her.
I disagree with prolonging an animal's suffering, in an already overstocked marketplace for horses - and the sling often seems badly used. If a human was dying in bed, you wouldn't sling them to their feet, would you?

And must I be against all animal charities? Alrighty then.
(Although, I am very much against the poor behaviour and performance of the RSPCA these days, but I'm
not the only one with that view).

I think we need to reduce the numbers of unwanted animals in the UK, and the world - one sensible way of doing this is the humane euthanasia or slaughter of horses with extreme health issues, putting them out of their misery.
Just because we can force them to live, doesn't mean we should.
S :)
 
The first severely neglected horse I found as a welfare officer did exactly what's described in this video went down at three days ,she was lifted on wide straps and did survive .
She had a long and complicated recovery and was never a fully healthy adult but was extremely fortunate in the home that was found for her .
After the first fortnight throughout her recovery she remained bright and so trusting ( not all rescues are like this some defiantly dislike humans ).
It will have cost many thousands to get her to the stage she was rehomed and if she had been my horse I would have PTS ( I can't imagine a senario where one of mine got like that ) .
She however belonged to an owner who had been chased round by every welfare group for years and who refused to sign the horse over to the welfare organisation .
At that point the only way you can PTS is if the vet says it's a must, the vet never got to that stage .
It was a great day when I saw the owner banned for life .
I personally am uncomfortable the save it at all cost attitude that I think I see in that video and feel it's as much about the people doing the rescuing as the welfare of the horse .
However my time at the coalface as taught me to be careful to judge until you have been there , and a horse does not have to be physically perfect to have quality of life if it's apporiatly managed .
I now can PTS an older horse without much soul searching because I have seen too many times the suffering that occurs when it's left to long .
There's no ' we ' in this people have choices and take different views on this I have no problem with that .
 
I'm unsure, I think they do need to be taken on a case by case basis and those with other issues, soundness etc, should be carefully thought about. I'm certainly unconvinced about bringing some of the abandoned gypsy youngsters back from the brink of death when they are going to have a lifetime of other issues and potentially not be rehomable.

But, I did get quite attached to carrot and spud :p. Though afaik neither ever went down and I'd prob err on them being PTS if they had.
 
I think it would be hard not to give them a chance. I think the rescue did a very good job. Yes, one or two of them looked lame in the video, but they looked happy too. I also think valuable lessons were learned about refeeding syndrome and worming and B12 shots which could help other people facing similar rescue situations, and even for people who have a horse recovering from conditions such as severe grass sickness. I say well done to them for giving these horses a real chance.
 
People view horses in different ways, as a work animal, as a partner, as a pet. It is a very emotive subject. I am going to reserve my bile for the people who allow them to get into such a state, not for the people who then clear the mess up. If you watch the whole video and read all the words it is clear that they do pts animals which are not responding, I do not agree that all the horses looked poor quality, in fact some looked very nice indeed, esp some of the youngsters. I would happily take on Lone Cloud. Having rescued a very thin mare, nursed her back to health, coped with the unexpected Bogoff.....now my horse of a lifetime. Seen her live a long and useful life I can not agree with a blanket rule of kill on sight. A difficult watch with some happy outcomes, op does not deserve to be "lectured " on what is right or wrong. We can watch and make our own minds up.
 
I feel that the conflict appear to be bron out of 'not knowing' - how do we know, at the point we are faced with an emaciated horse who is down, what their prognosis and outcome will be.

Can we say confidently 'This horse has no future'? No, i dont think we can. So there are many people in this world who feel that where there is a hope that you should persue it. We can never know if that scrawny weak mare will turn out to be sickly for the rest of her life or to flourish and find a home with someone who adores her for the rest of her days.

It is a huge responsibilty to make a decision on the life of another being. I admire what this rescue is doing and agree their findings into refeeding syndrome can be nothing but positive for other convalescing horses.
 
Is there no way of catching refeeding syndrome before it hits? Regular blood tests? Or using a drip earlier? And could they not use slings as a support from the start to prevent them going down? I would have thought it would be a lot less traumatic to be stabled with permanent loose supports for the first week than it would having to hoist them up again once they are down.
 
Is it me or are a lot of people missing the point of the video anyway, which seems to me to be a laymans look at the actual protocol involved in refeeding, using these rescues as examples? Yes, it has the sentimental music which it could do without, and yes, some of the horses may have been better PTS - the older ones maybe - but if they can be re-fed and go on to lead a decent life, why not? I think that calling the rescuers "horse torturers" is ridiculous. The horse torturers are the humans that "cared for" the horses before rescue. Using such emotive language to refer to people who are working hard to help the horses (and hey, they'd die anywaywithout being lifted with slings) is just playing devil's advocate IMO, and not fair or necessary.

It's not black and white, but I admire the work these people are doing, and like that they shared their protocol, including failures and issues such as worming to early in the process. Interesting, thought provoking, and certainly not deserving the venom of some posters on this thread.
 
Just a quick question.
Why do you think these horses are emaciated in the first place?
Is it because;
A. Nasty evil people enjoy owning and starving them because the people are horrid?
B. There are more horses than homes in the country?
C. Euthanasia is expensive, out of the reach of owners?

And what do you think happens to them after they are restored to health;
A. Even if lame, they will live out their days as companions in loving homes?
B. The rescue will keep them, taking more and more animals in until eventually they can't look after them (Bank End Rescue, anyone?)?
C. They will go back into the pool, where they will eventually find their way back to the bottom again, and the cycle continues.

Sensible options for dealing with the overstocking of equidae IMO are -
1. PTS anything in extremely poor health, old age, behavioural issues - by subsidising Euthanasia and disposal.
2. Subsidise castration of colts to reduce breeding.
3. Use horses for meat, and track them as sheep, cattle etc. are tracked - you seldom see an emaciated cow, nor one being 'rescued'.

S :)
 
Shilasdair said:
Just a quick question.
Why do you think these horses are emaciated in the first place?
Is it because;
A. Nasty evil people enjoy owning and starving them because the people are horrid?
B. There are more horses than homes in the country?
C. Euthanasia is expensive, out of the reach of owners?
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D. People run out of money or interest, or personal circumstances/health changes and they just neglect them. (I don't think 'enjoyment' comes into it)

And what do you think happens to them after they are restored to health;
A. Even if lame, they will live out their days as companions in loving homes?
B. The rescue will keep them, taking more and more animals in until eventually they can't look after them (Bank End Rescue, anyone?)?
C. They will go back into the pool, where they will eventually find their way back to the bottom again, and the cycle continues.
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A. Most rescues loan their horses out and keep tabs on them.

Sensible options for dealing with the overstocking of equidae IMO are -
1. PTS anything in extremely poor health, old age, behavioural issues - by subsidising Euthanasia and disposal.
2. Subsidise castration of colts to reduce breeding.
3. Use horses for meat, and track them as sheep, cattle etc. are tracked - you seldom see an emaciated cow, nor one being 'rescued'.

S :)
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You don't see emaciated cows because they are WORTH more in good condition for meat or milk. Keeping them healthy pays dividends.
 
The USA is a complete example of why we want to keep our horse abattoirs in this country, animal welfare groups really messed up there as those that don't die/end up in rescue endure a trip to mexico or canada.

dollyana I also wondered why they weren't on drips in the first place anyway.

As said before I think it needs to be a case by case basis. The 4 week old foal for example might well have come right enough.

wagtail horses are worth more for meat covered rather than emaciated so I don't quite get your point (genuine query not getting at you!)
 
ester said:
The USA is a complete example of why we want to keep our horse abattoirs in this country, animal welfare groups really messed up there as those that don't die/end up in rescue endure a trip to mexico or canada.

dollyana I also wondered why they weren't on drips in the first place anyway.

As said before I think it needs to be a case by case basis. The 4 week old foal for example might well have come right enough.

wagtail horses are worth more for meat covered rather than emaciated so I don't quite get your point (genuine query not getting at you!)
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Yes, they are. However, people do not get them with the intention of making money from their meat as they do cattle. By the time they become emaciated due to neglect, they are worth nothing. People who neglect their horses don't think I'd better feed them so I can sell them for meat, just like people who starve dogs don't think that. My point being you get cattle with the purpose of fattening them up and making more money on them as a result. It would be plain stupid to let them starve. Whereas people do not get horses to fatten up for meat.
 
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