Scales of Training/Walk & Trot Tests

Tempi

Tempi

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I wanted to start this separately as i think CSYMolly brought up a really good point in a post below.

Surely if you cant canter you really shouldnt be contemplating doing affliated dressage? I can see why BD are introducing a walk and trot test, but i can also see that its going to lower the standard of affliated dressage aswell.

I was talking to a List 4 Judge on Saturday and she was saying how awful some of the standards of riding she judges are these days. At the competition i was at on the weekend i must say some of the riding was apauling, and the people riding had no idea of the basic scales of training.

Im a perfectionist, and i would never compete at a certain level if i didnt think i was ready for it. But on numerous occasions ive seen people doing novice affliated tests who cant even ride their horse in an outline, and have no idea what the scales of training are.

The judge i was talking to had written a comment on someones sheet saying 'no basic knowledge of the scales of training present'. I was stood talking to the judge next to where the sheets were, and when this person picked up his sheet he said 'this judge needs to learn what the bl**dy scales of training are, she obviously has no idea' and walked out
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To me that is totally shocking, as the person concerned really thought they knew what the scales of training where
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When in fact he had ridden around with reins like washing lines, kicking and flapping at his horse - at NOVICE affliated
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They say the standard of dressage is getting better in the UK at the higher levels, but at the lower levels we might have more competitors but in my eyes the standard is getting worse.

Surely the introduction now of walk and trot tests is going to lower the standard even more?

In Germany all riders have to prove they are capable of riding at a certain level before they can compete. And we wonder why the Germans are so good..............
 
Yes exactly - at least dressage is safer than eventing tho
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Thing is im all for encouraging riders, but then why not focus on more unaffliated events.

I also think the introduction of tests before riders can affliate is a good idea - it will stop people who really have no idea from competing at affliated level. If Germany can do that, why cant we?
 
I can understand why BD are doing this, and I am ambivalent about it. They want to try to bring as many people as possible under their aegis, and it can only be a positive thing for people just starting out in dressage to be judged by listed judges. If introducing walk/trot tests allows this, so be it.....

On the other hand, if the standard of teaching and training at basic levels in the country was sufficient, walk/trot tests would not be needed. People shouldn't be competing if what they need is training. But if they can't get access to decent advice any other way, then at least they are getting it somewhere!

I know an "old fashioned" dressage rider who firmly believes that no one should do affiliated dressage beneath Medium level. He rarely competes his horses before PSG!
 
I don't actually even agree with walk trot at unaff, there are a few exeptions like tiny tots who would fall off at canter or perhaps a VERY nervous rider or horse. Also find that what happens at some venues is that there are so many entries for w/t and prelim that elem isn't till after dark!
 
In that case shoot me down now. When I first bought B I had entered my other horse for her first novice BD test (on a ticket). She went lame. I had paid the entry fees and had owned B a week. He had no brakes or steering to speak of and certainly had no understanding of outline. I took him in her place, basically to see how he reacted to a show environment. Ok, so he hadn't a clue and did the whole test without so much as thinking about going on the bit, but he behaved impeccably, coped with a busy warmup and walked happily from one arena to another. That was all I wanted really, and wasn't bad for a 5yo who'd not really been anywhere.

I finished smiling and had a chat to the judge, explaining the situation. She was lovely about it and wrote 'clearly a new experience for the horse' on the bottom of our sheet, which was fair enough!

I just think people should not be so quick to judge why others are there - you don't know the full story, and rather than lose my money, I had an educational day out with my youngster.

In terms of the walk and trot tests - again, if I wanted some consistent judging, and had a horse who found canter difficult (as most babies do in a 20x40), but I wanted it to get some comp experience, then what is the problem? Surely it is better to get riders exposed to decent critical comment asap - it might make just one think about their training, and if so it has to be worth it?
 
oh my god i know what you are talking about - we have been going out competing at unaffilaited till we know we are ready as i wouldnt like to make a pratt out of myself !!

I think that sometimes the opposite happens though and people who should be doing affiliated stick at the unaffiliated just to keep winning !!! I think i found this at show jumping more as the same people i competed against before i went BSJA about 10 years ago are still competing in the same open classes - and of course winning !!!
 
Yes, but why compete affliated? That is what UNaffliated is for! I just find it rediculous that people pay £100 to register themselves and their horse when they have no idea on basic riding - and now to do a walk and trot test aswell??

Fair enough that you took your youngster in place of a different horse. But most of these people i see competing every single weekend............ Surely the scales of training mean something? They are a fundemental importance to the basic knowledge of dressage that everyone should have before they even conemplate competing. Half the people out dont even know what they are, let alone how to go about acheieving them.
 
I don't want to upset anyone but I feel that, apart from in extenuating circumstances, you shouldn't be competing anywhere (even unaffiliated) if you can't attempt a canter in an enclosed space.
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I also think that these classes are abused by those who would "rather not" as opposed to "can not" canter.

I also agree that the general standard at lower levels of affiliated dressage is pretty bad (can't comment on other disciplines) - I was really surprised when I took the plunge!
 
I agree with you - if you cant canter your horse in a circle or in an enclosed space, then why bother competing??? To me the focus should be on the training at home - once this is well established then people can think about competing. There is no point rushing a horse.
 
The problem is that venues can only run so many classes in a day wether its BD, BE or BSJA.
I can see a day when it will be very difficult to find a weekend comp for anything higher than Novice BD, discovery BSJA or PN BE. Weewkends will be full of WT tests, Basj 80cm opens and pre-intro.
Ultimately the upper levels will become exclusively Pro riders who can get out to compete during the week.
 
This is one of the problems im already having. I want to start thinking about medium, but nearly all weekend classes only go up to elementary....... Its really difficult and i think BD need to think about how they go about catering for amateurs who work full time and cant compete during the week but want to compete at the higher levels.
 
For consistent judging? Some unaff judging is truely terrible - at least if they are using BD judges you have some comeback and a bit of consistency?

How about this too:

I used to see someone who has ridden at Badminton doing prelim tests week in week out (and doing well) on experienced horses. It turned out she was recovering from a spinal tumour which had left her struggling to balance if the horse moved unexpectedly - which they are more likely to do at a comp situation.

What I am saying is do not be so quick to judge - does it matter if people are doing aff dressage when they are 'not ready'? What if the horse works beautifully at home but can be terribly inconsistent at shows - at unaff they get accused of pothunting if the hrose goes nicely, at aff they get accused of not being good enough. What if they are terribly nervous of going aff so ride like a pleb through nerves? No poing in going unaff as the problem is at aff comps.

With dressage there isn't really the 'danger' element of someone not being good enough that you get with jumping (esp XC), so I can't see the issue.
 
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With dressage there isn't really the 'danger' element of someone not being good enough that you get with jumping (esp XC), so I can't see the issue.

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You mean apart from the chaos that will be the warm-up areana.
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The issue is that these people competing have NO IDEA of the basic scales of training.

Why is it that in Germany they can produce top dressage riders, but over here we cant? Why is it that most of our top riders train abroad?????? Its because they have a good system in place which prepares people for competition and the ones that arent ready cant affliate.
 
It is a real problem to find venues that go above medium on a weekend. I agree that adding Walk/trot tests will crowd up the lower levels and smaller venues will be less likely to put on mediums+ on at weekends. Which means that amateurs will have to travel further, or take time off work to compete.

It is interesting to note though, that at the same time as BD is adding walk/trot tests, a number of unaffiliated venues around me offer Prelim to PSG!!! And get good entries at the higher levels too (can't vouch for the standard LOL).
 
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With dressage there isn't really the 'danger' element of someone not being good enough that you get with jumping (esp XC), so I can't see the issue.

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You mean apart from the chaos that will be the warm-up areana.
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Exactly - half these people have no idea about rules of the warmup either and will happily canter up behind people wacking their horse as they go past someone and dont have any idea about 'left to left' and walking on an inside track.
 
I was a walk/trot type myself until very recently, but that was how I got myself introduced to the whole competing "thing". it wasn't because I couldn't canter in a circle, but i was nervous of riding in front of a judge. Now i am happy to compete at Prelim (well, sort of happy, still nervous though), but no way would i consider affiliating just to do Walk/Trot tests. Whats the point?

Now if BD has brought out the W/T tests in recognition of the fact that lots of people want to do them, and is simply trying to standardise the requirements at W/T, that's a slightly different matter. OK, the Pony Club does perfectly acceptable W/T tests, but I can sort of see why it makes sense for BD to do it.
 
I do feel that there should be some sort of grading before you are allowed to compete at ANY affiliated level (in any sphere). As at mo IMO it's just how deep are your pockets and IMO that's why you see folk riding so badly - this year i was fence judging at BE and i was totally shocked with some folks riding it was just lucky that they were on very forgiving horses!!
I think that there are plenty of unaffil/RC stuff around to cater for young horses in my area alot of afflilated venue run unaffliated stuff and used listed judges etc...to give the feel of affilated stuff
I do feel training is key and that talent will always rise to top....
 
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With dressage there isn't really the 'danger' element of someone not being good enough that you get with jumping (esp XC), so I can't see the issue.

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You mean apart from the chaos that will be the warm-up areana.
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Having had some very well known professionals behave appaulingly in the warmups at recent BE events where I am doing Novice, and having read PGs posts recently about people cantering into her in warm-ups, I am not sure the lower level riders are entirely to blame for that, or that it gets better as you go up the levels! Plus if they are only walking and trotting, and you are doing a much higher level than them a) you won't be there are the same time as them, and b) you'll have plenty of time to canter out of their way....
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Yes, a lot of venues near me run unaffliated Prelim to PSG with a 'pick your own' test from Adv Med upwards. Near me the people who do the 'pick your own' at the higher levels tend to be professionals giving younger horses a run at a higher level to see how they cope.
 
Also just a thought - if you are warming up for a W&T test then you will encounter people warming up for prelims who will be cantering around you. If you are that nervous should you be at a competition?
 
Ah yes, but the 'cantering into me incident' was done by a prelim rider, as i was warming up for the other class. Said prelim rider was someone who also had no idea what they were doing and was just cantering their horse fast around the warmup.
 
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It is a real problem to find venues that go above medium on a weekend. I agree that adding Walk/trot tests will crowd up the lower levels and smaller venues will be less likely to put on mediums+ on at weekends. Which means that amateurs will have to travel further, or take time off work to compete.

It is interesting to note though, that at the same time as BD is adding walk/trot tests, a number of unaffiliated venues around me offer Prelim to PSG!!! And get good entries at the higher levels too (can't vouch for the standard LOL).

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Yep, there is a venue near me where you can do unaff up to medium all winter at the weekend. They get round the entries issue by having pick and mix classes so you can pick from novice, elementary or medium tests. Use good judges too, brilliant as means I don't have to join BD!!
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