Scary near miss of the worst kind this morning - may spark a debate!

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Erehwemos

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This morning, on my way to work, I nearly hit a horse on the road.
I am not a fast driver and I always obey the speed limit; in fact I seem to be alway being overtaken by others who feel I am not going quick enough for them. Hey ho
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But anyway, my route to work includes a large hill, down which snakes a main road with a national speed limit. A lot of people drive very fast down here; someone we know actually managed to overturn her car and ended up rolling to the bottom - God knows how she survived, but it has since served as a reminder as to how dangerous the road can be. There are no barriers guarding a pretty sheer drop - you get the gist, you just have to be very careful.
I tend to come down the first part of the hill in 4th gear, then drop to 3rd as it gets twistier. Most of the bends are blind so caution is needed - it goes withou saying. Today, I went round a left handed bend (would have been doing around 25mph) and suddenly in front of me, going the same way, were two horses and riders
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Luckily I was 'with it' and managed to swerve around them, but the thought of what could have happened, either if I had been going faster or if someone had been coming towards us in the opposite direction, made me quake as I drove on. The riders themselves did not seem overly perturbed by what I considered to be a very near miss, but I know for sure that it shook me up, not least because I knew I had been driving sensibly and safely and STILL could have ended up hitting them. And my first immediate thought to myself was, why on earth would anyone ride a horse up that hill? The riding around this area is excellent (I speak from experience!) and riding on this part of the road is so unnecessary - there are a myriad of bridleways and even a less busy lane which leads up to the top of the hill.
I cant help but think that these riders, and others who ride on similar types of road, put themselves, their horses and drivers at unnecessary risk. As a rider, I often ride on roads myself but I try to plan my route to pose as minimal risk as possible to us both - no one can eliminate all the risks, but you can make efforts to safeguard yourself. And as a driver, I just know there is no way I would EVER ride my horse up that hill. Not ever.

As you can probably guess, I was pretty shaken up by it all, and I suppose I'd just like to get some other views on the matter - do you guys feel that riders should be able to take their horses on any road, and that it is completely up to the drivers to take evasive action (and that any accident would always be the driver's fault?) Or do you feel, as I am feeling now, that some riders are actually quite negligent regarding the routes they choose and their road conduct.

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Maybe they weren't locals and didn't know the area, possibly took a wrong turn off a route and didn't mean t be there, it hust goes to show that as drivers we should awlays be aware no matter what.
I ride on the roads quite a lot, but like yourself I dont ride on roads blatantly dangerous ie, blind bends or where I know cattle or sheep could spook him into the road.
 
I must admit there are a few roads where I've met horses and wondered why on earth they'd ride there.

I ride an awful lot on roads, everyday now Josie is in rehab, but we go over to the 'posh' part, 2 mins from the yard, where the roads are straight and wide enough for 3 car or 4 car widths.

There are also speed bumps on the main road, so the cars are rarely doing over 25
 
I always plan my route to minimise dangers but I do know riders who seem oblivious to them. There is a quite grown up woman near me who regularly CANTERS her horse down the side of a busy dual carriageway.

In my view absolutely potty.
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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There's a road exactly the same beside me and it includes a "blind" S bend. It's ponies with children I keep meeting, riding abreast, no reflectives and more worrying with their (I presume) mother walking on foot. It's only a matter of time until there is a serious accident as there are a lot of fast drivers on this road.

Just as a further bugbear they never acknowlege or thank drivers for slowing down and passing wide.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has ever right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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LOL - pretty strong views on the matter then!

I really take issue with you saying that it is ALWAYS the driver's fault. As a rider, I have frequently come up against drivers who have no regard for us on the road and who I have felt huge anger towards. But as a driver too, I have also come across riders - like today - who have no regard for their own safety. I was NOT driving dangerously; if you failed to pick up on the fact that I am very wary of that particular stretch of road, then you clearly did not read my post correctly. IF I had come tanking down the hill and had to screech my brakes and swerve violently into the middle of the road, then yes, there would have been a call for me to slow down. But the fact is I was doing under 30mph (slower than most, that's for sure!), and STILL these horses were completely concealed by the bend in the road - even if I had been doing 5mph, I would have still had to take evasive action.

I thought it might get a bit heated
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There's a road exactly the same beside me and it includes a "blind" S bend. It's ponies with children I keep meeting, riding abreast, no reflectives and more worrying with their (I presume) mother walking on foot. It's only a matter of time until there is a serious accident as there are a lot of fast drivers on this road.

Just as a further bugbear they never acknowlege or thank drivers for slowing down and passing wide.

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That's another point actually - neither horses nor riders had any form of reflectives on, and both horses were dark bay - again, a further sign of negligence, I believe!
 
I do think some horse riders need to help themselves and steer clear of fast roads- clearly the road you were driving this morning is not the best choice given the alternative options?!

That said horse riders are entitled on the roads and I wish drivers would be more conscious of the dangers lurking around corners (horses, loose animals, wildlife etc). This isn't a pop at OP, just a general comment
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Personally I blame the "Top Gear" contingent for making speed in rural areas seem not only 'normal' but 'appealing'
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- so much of their film footage is fast cars soaring through leafy countryside, and sadly they never take the effort to explain they have actually shut the section of road they are using in order to film- thus giving the impression that it is okay and safe for anyone to do it
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Having been hit and flipped over a speeding vauxhall corsa 10yrs ago and waking up in hospital to be told my horse was PTS because of a broken leg (held on by his brushing boot) I am a massive advocate of education being the best way forward; ignorance on behalf or riders or drivers is just not acceptable... FYI it was the youth in the Corsa that had been ignorant in my case
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RIP William x
 
I suppose all I can say is, whether on a horse or in a car, 'expect the unexpected', particularly in horsey areas and where there are blind bends (where I live, these are everywhere!!!)

Bit of a different rant entirely and addressed to no one in particular but....
Some of the places I used to ride were pretty hairy, but we were there first and if you are going to move out to the country where canter paths and fields have made way for big housing developments right in front of your very eyes (where people often double-addressed so they didn't have to pay taxes in the Republic of Ireland but sent their kids to school and went shopping in Northern Ireland) then yes, you adjust your speed and your driving habits, you don't whizz around single track roads like you are still in the city centre.

I have to walk my dogs along some scary routes around here to get into the main forest and some of the driving is crazy, just mental, that is why I could never have a horse at home
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I can throw or push my dogs into a ditch and jump in after them (which I have had to do in the past to avoid certain death) but with a horse? No chance.
 
I can't believe how many riders have so little common sense.
We always always for as long as I can remember trot on on a blind bend until we are at least 20 - 30 metres 'off' the bend, then any car coming round has time to see us because we have moved off the bend. Being both a driver and a rider I think that a lot of people have just no common sense whatsoever. I did get out of my car one day and shout at a pair of riders that in my opinion should never have been alloed near a horse, they were riding all accross the road, slouching, one was smoking, and they didn't move at all, I waited ages, patiently, they eventually decided to move over and didn't even raise a hand or a smile, so they got a mouthfull. I just want to say both horses were exceptionally quiet and obviously pretty bombproof, these riders were giving all the rest of us a bad name.

I'm just saying it's not always the drivers.
 
Where I keep my horse I am lucky that if I ride about 200 metres up the road I am straight onto dartmoor, and personally I try and quick march up there!
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I just dont feel safe on the roads these days, soooo many people who dont live on the moor and literally bomb past etc.
But on the other hand, every so often I go round the lanes, to make sure she is still 100% in traffic as , god forbid, if I had to sell her one day she may not be so lucky to have a home on dartmoor
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Its down to drivers and riders - Hi Vis for riders and common sense, and drivers need to be on the ball at all times, no matter where they are.
But for me, I try to stay off roads as much as I can
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But the fact is I was doing under 30mph (slower than most, that's for sure!), and STILL these horses were completely concealed by the bend in the road - even if I had been doing 5mph, I would have still had to take evasive action.


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But it is always the driver fault unless the riders were not wearing high viz and were riding 2 abreast on the blind corner. It's not illegal for the horse, cyclsit, walker to be on that road so ever driver is by law expect to drive (at all times) as if there could be any number of things round the blind corner.

I'm not claiming to constantly drive that way but had you actually taken that corner at 5mph (which I do on one of the back road I use as there is a blind corner which has a gate that cildren play near) I can assure you you would easily have been able to stop the moment you seen those horse, they would have been walking at around the same pace as you were driving!

Don't think I'm judging you for being annoyed, esp since you know there are far better route to take, I think horse riders need to minimise there own risk to the greatest extent they can.
 
I would say the riders should plan and choose their routes more carefully Buuuuuut when i first moved to my area (where the hacking is excellent) I got completely lost, it was getting dark and I found myself in a place I knew but knowing I had a busy B road to contend with. It was that or retrace my 2 hour route so i chose the b route as my horse is good in traffic and i had limited daylight left.

This was a road you'd never expect to see orses and I found most drivers were excellent but after one idiot deliberately speeded up I called my OH to come and 'escort' me home in the car. He drove behind me with his hazards on and I felt much safer.

Of course it goes without sayig Hi Vis. and the usual precautions should be taken but you never know why some people appear to be doing stupid things i find - and sometimes it's me!!
 
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Ignorant riders without courtesy common sense or viz gear on the roads, or idiot drivers who should have had a DNA test for the twat gene before being banned from ever being allowed behind a wheel to start with, wev'e bred a nation of arseholes, dont expect it to get any better as it wont.

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Love it
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A lot of country roads have blind corners and blind summits too- there could be anything at all round them in either direction- tractors travelling at very slow speeds, cyclists, ramblers, a herd of sheep or cows being moved, a stationary broken down car... drivers need to expect them to be there. 25mph might sound slow against a 60mph limit, but I think it is actually too fast to be going round a blind corner- not irresponsibly fast, as you were obviously going slow enough to avoid them, but a bit too fast if you gave yourself a fright. Some corners you really need to creep around.

I don't think riding on a twisty hilly road makes riders negligent. I perhaps wouldn't choose to ride on a 'dangerous' road, but riders have as much right to be there as any other road user.
 
The thing is, it could have been anything in the middle of the road and if you are going to fast to stop, you are going too fast. It could have been an accident across both sides of the road, from what you've said, you would have hit it.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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Come on! You can't seriously mean you drive around every bend as if you might come across a horse?! If you do, you are a dangerously slow driver for the car behind you! Are you seriously suggesting that the OP should have been going considerably slower than 25mph in a 60mph road on the off chance that there would be horses there? What about the one in a million chance of children crossing the motorway? Should we all drive at 10mph on the motorway as well? (before you say "that will never happen", I have seen 3 kids stuck in the middle reservation of the M1, the police had to come to get them across).

As a rider and driver, I can really appreciate that there are some roads that are just too dangerous for horses to be on.
 
I absolutely agree. We have a number of country roads near us which are popular with horse riders and I simply can't fathom why they ride on them. I always trot quickly round blind bends, if I enounter them but generally there are numerous roads I wouldn't ever ride on.

Only the other morning I was driving along a country road at 8am. The sun was in my eyes & I had to crawl along, worse was the deep shadown by the hedge which were completely black, no visibility. Lots of people ride along this road with no high vis, you wouldn't stand a chance as a car driver.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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Come on! You can't seriously mean you drive around every bend as if you might come across a horse?! If you do, you are a dangerously slow driver for the car behind you! Are you seriously suggesting that the OP should have been going considerably slower than 25mph in a 60mph road on the off chance that there would be horses there? What about the one in a million chance of children crossing the motorway? Should we all drive at 10mph on the motorway as well? (before you say "that will never happen", I have seen 3 kids stuck in the middle reservation of the M1, the police had to come to get them across).

As a rider and driver, I can really appreciate that there are some roads that are just too dangerous for horses to be on.

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Erm, yes I drive on all minor roads as if there might be a hazard round any blind bend, because relatively often there is a hazard! 60mph speed limits on minor roads are ludicrous, meaningless and only exist due to the cost and unenforcabilty of lowering them. A roads and motorways, different kettle of fish. If kids wander on motorways and end up getting flattened, so be it, but those same kids should be able to walk on a country road with no pavement without some tw*t coming round a corner too fast to stop before crashing into them.

OP, what would have happened had something been coming towards you when you swerved round the horses?
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Sorry if it's already been mentioned, haven't time to read all posts. I avoid certain roads at certain times of the day when the sun is low and as bright as it is here today. Going home in the car around sun up and sunset at the moment needs extreme caution even using the visor. Even mid summer hacking along an open road but under trees I've had a driver stop (not cross just shaken) to say he couldn't see me when he left the bright sun into the shade. I always ride in hi viz waistcoat.
 
Whilst I also would not ride out intentionally on a dangerous rd we have to remember that all riders may not be drivers, therefore do not always realise the dangers from a drivers POV. IMHO you clearly state that this rd has blind bends. Surely then as a driver you should be driving at a speed that you can stop under control at any given time! You could have met a cyclist or pedestrian or even a car that had broken down. I am not having a go at you just looking at the situation from a different angle.
 
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Come on! You can't seriously mean you drive around every bend as if you might come across a horse?! If you do, you are a dangerously slow driver for the car behind you!

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Of course! I can honestly say I drive round every blind bend as if I might come across something. I don't drive round all country roads at a constant 10mph, I simply slow down for blind corners- hardly dangerous for drivers behind me who should be keeping enough distance behind me to slow down anyway, and who probably are doing the same thing.
 
I have two options of getting off the farm, one is a main road I think the limit is 50, but most cars would drive 60/70, the second is a country lane, single track with steep embankments/high hedges either side, no where for me to go should I meet someone, the entire road is blind, cars come off the main road and don't change the way they drive.
The nearest off-road hacking is at least an hour away.

IMO both roads are equally 'dangerous', but my horse likes having a job and he cannot do hours of schooling, so I have little choice but to hack. I am always aware of traffic, do my very best to be out of the way and ALWAYS say thank you. Occasionally I forget my hi-viz and, yes, I should be shot, but I do try to wear it all the time.
 
As I have said before, the roads bought and paid for by most of us, are for getting from A to B, not for some F1 Twatalike to play at Twat Gear in their, oh it's got a billion arse power and goes from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds but it's lacks "fun" factor, a lot of the cars on the roads are totally unsuitable for the roads and environment they are being driven on, and even more unsuitable for the selfish, I will park where I like, drop my litter where I like, push in front at the checkout when I like etc etc dont give a toss about anyone genetically twatified individuals we seem to be producing at an alarming rate in this country, but hey, always look on the bright side of life.
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OP, what would have happened had something been coming towards you when you swerved round the horses?
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That would have depended entirely on how fast the car coming in the opposite direction was going. Because I was not driving fast, I was able to slow very quickly - without screeching my brakes so I did have a good degree of car control
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- but what was also interesting is that a postman who I then passed a few seconds on also saw the horses at the last minute and really did have to slam on his brakes - going uphill, with the horses on the opposite side of the road! Had I passed him a few seconds earlier, chances are that I would have been able to stop but he would not...I imagine he may have ended up in a crumpled mess at the bottom of the hill. All hypothetically speaking, of course - but I think that is my point here. When I say I had a near miss, it wasnt because I nearly hit them myself - although I had to pass them wide I was able to do so without causing either of them alarm (let's face it, us riders are pretty good at showing when we think someone has got too close - as are our horses!) but more because of the potential for what could have happened had another road user been approaching at the same time I encountered them.

And they were not wearing any hi viz.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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Ditto this. It didnt have to be a couple of horses, it could have been anything - slow moving vehicle, broken down vehicle, kids wobbling along on their bikes... Thankfully everyone was lucky this time
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its all well and good saying that drivers should be going slower(and they should when approaching blind bends)but in reality most drivers dont slow down enough at so maybe.. just maybe people should use some common sence and not ride on a road full of blind twisty bends when there are other much safer routes availiable....being able to say the driver was at fault wont bring you or a horse back from the dead...
 
I don't know the road the OP was on, but what she describes is a one lane in each direction road with a national speed limit. A similar road I use is the A525 for example, which is a country road but classified as an A road, it links major villages and small towns, and people use it as such, so in my opinion positively irresponsible to take a horse on the bendy parts of it where there is no visibility.

"Country roads" can describe all kinds of different roads, e.g. around here we have single lane roads, no verge, with no visibility due to bends and hedgerows, with a 60mph speed limit which is just insane. On such a road it is reasonable to expect to find horses, cyclists, walkers etc effectively 'in the middle' of the road, but not on the A525.

I don't see why some people on this thread accept that it is OK to drive up to the speed limit on the motorway and not have to expect the unexpected (having seen children, cyclists and pony and trap on the M1, not even so unexpected really!), while in lesser roads you have to drive as if anything could happen.

All road users have to take responsibility for the choices they make and the amount of risk they expose themselves and others to - any kind of road use is inherently dangerous, unless we all walked.
 
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its all well and good saying that drivers should be going slower(and they should when approaching blind bends)but in reality most drivers dont slow down enough at so maybe.. just maybe people should use some common sence and not ride on a road full of blind twisty bends when there are other much safer routes availiable....being able to say the driver was at fault wont bring you or a horse back from the dead...

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Absolutely - and this is my point. The fact is, those horses and riders were lucky to remain unscathed today - because I was driving slow enough to avoid them. Had it been the Fiesta which was on my tail all the way down the hill, and who clearly wasnt happy with my 25mph, who encountered them as I did, it could have been a different story. Regardless of whether some people think 25mph is slow enough or not, I did not hit the horses - but the potential for someone hitting them at some point on that bendy, notoriously fast A road is huge. So if it were me, I categorically not ride on that road (and as I have mentioned, I do know that there are many, many bridlepaths, quieter lanes and more sensible routes around there.)
 
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