Scary near miss of the worst kind this morning - may spark a debate!

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I don't know the road the OP was on, but what she describes is a one lane in each direction road with a national speed limit. A similar road I use is the A525 for example, which is a country road but classified as an A road, it links major villages and small towns, and people use it as such, so in my opinion positively irresponsible to take a horse on the bendy parts of it where there is no visibility.

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Yep, one lane in each direction, national speed limit, and the road essentially links two large towns. It really isnt some quaint little country road cutting through the middle of nowhere - yes there are hedges and trees and fields, but it is a busy commuter route which is often backed up during rush hour with traffic getting to and from the towns and the motorway.
 
Personally I avoid bendy narrow country roads if poss, but will use them if I have to. My ex used to drive round a bad stretch of road near us at 15mph and was still involved in a head on collision with a young lad who was only doing 25mph in the other direction. So yeah, if you can't see round a bend then 25mph is far too fast, regardless of the speed limit. It is after all a limit not a target. No offence meant to OP though - I crashed my car really foolishly recently
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Just because it is our right to do somthing does'nt allways mean its RIGHT to do it. we all should take a degree of responsability for our actions .My OH drives to work early , one morning he encountered a woman riding along the very narrow country road before it was fully light with two jack russels in the road. That is not being responsible for her animals!! Saying that i think there should be a proper national campain for road safety for horses the last lot of adverts were only on after midnight, not much use IMO.
 
I certainly wouldn't ride on a road that I felt unsafe on. The roads around our yard are generally quite quiet, but when we come to a bend, we go single file and trot round (after looking and listening) until we are on the straight again. Another thing that I worry about is the amount of riders riding without Hi Viz.
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When I'm driving on our quietish, long, but darkish (overhung by trees) road, I often don't notice these riders until I am very close to them. (Due to the dark and shaddow). Please everyone don't ever ride on ANY road without Hi Viz.
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I agree. I ride and drive. I also drive a car. In my car I have to be able to stop withing the distance I can see. Several years ago my son wrote my car off colliding with a tractor on a blind left hand bend.

The previous evening he told me off for driving too slowly round this bend. I said you need to corner as if there is someone in the middle of the road round the bend.

He disagreed but I proved my point and lost my car. Fortunately it was a tractor and not a horse or cyclist that he hit and no one was hurt.
 
Yes, drivers should drive carefully and slowly enough to stop as soon as they see a hazard in the middle of the road but they very often don't. That makes riders who ride on roads with blind bends and fast traffic extremely irresponsible. We have very little off road hacking but we are always careful to plan routes so that we take the safest possible route, making sure that drivers going into the sun won't hit us etc. We were on a sponsored ride recently on an A road for a short part of the way and were amazed that as we rode through the village where the speed limit is 40 and then 30mph some drivers shot down the wrong side of bollards to avoid slowing down for our group of eight horses. I am always very wary of riding in a smaller group on a road such as this and we never go out on the horses at rush hour (either morning or evening)

ETA we always wear hi-viz and can't believe that some riders think it's not necessary
 
u cant say it's always the drivers fault....... if we as riders use the roads we have to take SOME responsibility!!!!!

i try to wear my hi viz whenever i am on the main roads i live in the country lots of blind corners. if you go too slow in ur car surely u r at just as much risk of being smacked from behind by a car who cant see u crawling round the corner?? might be wrong...... i dont drive.

there is a main road here where cars have hit my stirrup numberous times driving so carelessly. they built a footpath for pedestrians so i now use the verge (not the actual path) of tht to ride along cause its too risky to ride on the road.

people should be aware of the roads before they start hacking in my opinion or be shown by someone who knows the area. my horses mean too much to me......... would much rather take the long way round
 
Fair enough horse riders have the right to be there, but that doesn't mean it's safe for them to ride on tha road. And yes, drivers should slow down around blind bends, but how many times have we seen idiots bombing around them. The fact of the matter is, it's a dangerous place to be on a horse so I would avoid it where possible.
 
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I don't see why some people on this thread accept that it is OK to drive up to the speed limit on the motorway and not have to expect the unexpected (having seen children, cyclists and pony and trap on the M1, not even so unexpected really!), while in lesser roads you have to drive as if anything could happen.


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No one has said you should not expect hazards on the motorway; the same applies to any road- you should always adjust to the road as you travel on it and be doing a speed which allows you to react if there are hazards ahead. There don't tend to be very tight blind corners on motorways, and you have the flexibility of lanes to move about in so not really a fair comparison. A few years ago I went round an unusally sharp corner on a dual carriageway to find a tractor doing 20mph- despite busy traffic in the outside lane I was able to quickly join the outside lane to avoid it, I wouldn't have had that option on a narrow single lane road.

Speed limits are not saying 'you SHOULD drive this speed on this road', they are saying it is the absolute MAXIMUM speed you should drive when conditions are safe to do so.

Horses, cyclists, and pedestrians have as much right as cars to be on twisty roads so whether people think it is responsible or not, they have a duty to take extra care. If, instead of MizElz posting this story there was another story posted by one of the riders to say they had been seriously injured and their horse PTS because a car had come round a blind corner and hit them I think both the law, and the majority of people on heres sympathy would lie with the rider, because the driver should have been travelling at a speed enabling them to react and stop.
 
The way I see it, if I am riding and am involved in an accident, there's a 90% chance it'll be me and my horse that come off worse. I have a responsibility to the safety of my horse, which involves using common sense and not putting her in the dangerous situation of risking being hit by a car, no matter what speed it is doing.

OP, I think horse riders should be responsible too. We know the dangers involved in riding on roads, not all car drivers do, therefore it is our responsibility to be sensible and take the course of action that is best for everyone involved
 
Haven't read all the replies yet but have a confession to make...

Yesterday I was a danger to myself, share horsey and others. Both he (chestnut) and I (chestnut too!) had high vis on and it was the middle of a lovely day. We had pulled into a gate opening on a two-lane national speed limit road to watch a 4x4 go by on the other side. They had good visibility and had slowed down to walking pace.

So, in thoery we all behaved very well.

Then a muck spreader started up behind a hedge a few feet away. Hedge was too tall to see the machine from where we were but you could certainly see the muck flying & hear the engine. Queue horse cantering a circle (trying to go back down road away from spreader) right in front of the 4x4. Eek!

Point is neither 4x4 nor I were doing anything wrong.

If 4x4 had been going faster (and legally it could have been doing 60mph), there had been something coming the other way or I hadn't got horse back under control after a couple of strides we could have had a really tragic accident though.

Horses, bikes, slow drivers, broken down cars etc, etc all have a right to be on the roads. Even ones with blind corners. As riders we have a responsibility to our horses and others to be as visibile, sensible and under control as possible bearing in maind that horses are by nature, flight animals.

But dirvers *must* take the geography of roads into account. My personal opinion is that there are many, many roads in this country where it would be reckless to be doing the national speed limit and perhaps it is time lower limits (including with cameras!) were introduced in areas with poor visibility.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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Ditto this. It didnt have to be a couple of horses, it could have been anything - slow moving vehicle, broken down vehicle, kids wobbling along on their bikes... Thankfully everyone was lucky this time
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Indeed. If you have to swerve to avoid something then you are going too fast for the road or the conditions. It's as simple as that. The fact that the 'obstacle' was a horse and rider is largely irrelevant. If it had been a broken-down car the result would have been the same, you would still have had to swerve to avoid it but wouldn't have been able to blame the other driver for being so irresponsible as to drive on, and break down on, the road.
 
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Those who say the OP should have done 5mph around that bend, what about the behind her that comes out of nowhere and goes into her? The next car could easily be travelling within the speed limit but still not have time to stop before they plough into the back of her. Don't forget you can fail your driving test by driving too slowly too; it can be just as dangerous as speed.

I personally think 25-30mph is a happy medium.

And, whatever right they have to ride on the road, I do think the two riders in question were numpties. Even if they didn't know the area, they should have turned around when they came to such a busy road, gone home and read a map. I can say this because I have done this myself.
 
Personally I think people who ride on national speed limit roads with blend bends are insane. Why would you?? I go along a similar road to work every day and have met Horses a couple of times on the bends. No high vis on and the thing is....there is plenty off road hacking on either side.
Whilst I agree that drivers should take the visibility into consideration many don't and I don't believe for one second that everyone on here slows to 5mph for corners. If I did that I'd most likely have a car smash into the back of me and I'd most likely be the cause of frustration overtaking in dodgy places. This is a massive problem on the notorius A9 (Inverness to Perth, 100 miles mostly single lane). Even on a long straight a Deer could jump out in front of you (happened to me a few times) so do people think we should stick to a crawl all the time?? Sorry, but it would take hours to get anywhere if that were the case.
Roads are much busier than they used to be. I agree that Horses have every right to be on the roads but I personally can never understand what enjoyment people get from road riding. There's a constant risk of maniac drivers, on busy roads it frustrates drivers (I'm sure we have all experienced the frustraton of being stuck behind tractors for a while), there's a danger of slipping if your Horse gets a fright at something and the surface can't be doing the Horses legs much good. I know running on roads yourself is quite wearing to joints and Horses don't have the luxury of shock absorbing trainers. Each to their own and I know many people have no choice but to ride on roads. I have to say when chosing a yard off road hacking and 24/7 turnout are top of my list.
To the OP, it sounds as if you were driving responsibly. Two riders, double file, on a blind bend with no high vis?? I just can't see the sense in that. FWIW I do drive sensibly, but many people don't and the chances of that ever changing are nil.
 
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Don't forget you can fail your driving test by driving too slowly too; it can be just as dangerous as speed.

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Yes, you can, and no-one is saying to drive at 5mph on all roads at all times, just that sometimes it really is necessary to slow right down. They introduced the hazard perception part of the theory test for a reason, and a blind bend counts as a potential hazard.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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if you horse did something wrong and ploughed into a vehicle overtaking u at 5 mph would it be the drivers fault if it was a pheasent or something that jumped out and spooked it???
 
did you mention to them that hi vis might be advisable next time?

If I could of I think I would have stopped and mentioned it.
 
Yes drivers need to be aware of potential hazards slowing down considerably when required but riders must also be considerate to what roads should and shouldn't be ridden.

There was a tragic accident a few miles from where I live a few years ago which resulted in the death of a rider. The road in question is a very busy B road, was national speed limit at the time (since reduced for small section concerned to 40mph and the rest to 50mph!) and links nearest lcity to large town and literally runs parallel to the motorway. Earlier in the morning there had been a serious crash on the motorway resulting in it being shut with all traffic diverted north and south bound on to this B road making traffic levels exceptionally high.

The rider was on a green 4yo on their own and was riding down the stretch of road which although relatively straight has a couple small hills with blind summits, the horse proceeded to spook and threw its rider into the side of an artic lorry and the impact resulted in huge head injuries from which the rider died. This accident then resulted in the B road being shut and all traffic including double decker buses and artic lorries were diverted through one track country lanes. Not a good day to be on the roads I tell you!

Now I would never ever ride any horse on this road never mind when the motorway is closed. There is excellent quiet lane hacking for miles around on both sides of the road. Occasionally riders will cross this main road (which personally i wouldn't do as again no need with the quality of hacking around) but it can be crossed at several points going straight across without actually having to ride along the B road.

I still don't know for the life of me why the rider was on that road to start with especially with a green 4yo horse. The outcome was a tragic accident but one I can't help think could have been avoided had the rider not chosen to have ridden along this particular stretch of road which was easily avoided.
 
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I was NOT driving dangerously; if you failed to pick up on the fact that I am very wary of that particular stretch of road, then you clearly did not read my post correctly. IF I had come tanking down the hill and had to screech my brakes and swerve violently into the middle of the road, then yes, there would have been a call for me to slow down. But the fact is I was doing under 30mph (slower than most, that's for sure!), and STILL these horses were completely concealed by the bend in the road - even if I had been doing 5mph, I would have still had to take evasive action.

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As you would have had to take evasive action if it had been a child on a bike!! Sorry - but where visibility is poor - whether it's sunlight, or bends, or driving rain - whatever - it is the driver's responsibility to drive at a speed from which they can stop within the visibility distance. Not being able to SEE the road is NEVER an excuse for running into something that is ON the road!!
 
Hi All,

Fistly _mizelz_ - I hope you are over the shock you had this morning - it must have been very scary.

I NEVER ever ride out on the roads or bridleways without hi viz on - never. Its simply not worth risking a driver not seeing me and my horse. I am always super careful out hacking and am always listening out for cars even though I am in a very remote area with little traffic, but what cars I do see usually come helling past.

I even walk the dog in hi viz!

I cant understand why some riders dont - we spend so much on caring for our horses and ensuring their wellbeing that to me its vital that we can be seen out on the roads.

There was a really nasty accident out near where I am last year where a lad hit a mother, leading her child on a pony along a road with no hi viz - and it was totally dark and the roads are unlit.

The child and pony were killed in the accident and whilst hi viz may not have prevented this accident, it may have given the driver chance to see what was in the road ahead.

For me hi viz out hacking and taking good care on the roads is as vital as wearing a hat and insuring the horses! I simply would not be without it!

Gem
 
santa how sad, I dont leave the field if there is an accident on the M5, as that blocks A38 and locals nip down back route (our hacking) that they dont know well and are in a rush. Its just not worth it.
 
As Gemsie says-

"For me hi viz out hacking and taking good care on the roads is as vital as wearing a hat and insuring the horses! I simply would not be without it!"

Ditto
 
Not read through whole thread, so apologies if I am saying something already covered.. I live on a quite busy country road, it has a 60 mph limit. The only way to go anywhere from my house is along this road and within 50 yards of leaving home there is a blind bend, with a grass bank and hedge , no grass verge. We have to ride round this bend, walk round it (pushing a pushchair when my children were younger) and ride bikes round it. On one occasion my son fell off his bike just round this corner, would we be considered irresponsible for using this road, perhaps we should just stay at home
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Cars invariably go round this corner too fast, they have no idea what they are going to meet, whereas I don't expect everyone to crawl round the corner I do wish motorists would realise that not everyone travels country roads in the comparative safety of a car and adjust their speed to allow for this.
 
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Slow Down. No one ever expects to come round a bend and see our carriage mooching along, but sometimes there it is and it has every right to be there without being smashed into. It is always the drivers' fault.
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if you horse did something wrong and ploughed into a vehicle overtaking u at 5 mph would it be the drivers fault if it was a pheasent or something that jumped out and spooked it???

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Yep. If the car is passing wide and slow where there is a large enough gap to pass, they would never make contact with a shying horse.
 
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Ignorant riders without courtesy common sense or viz gear on the roads, or idiot drivers who should have had a DNA test for the twat gene before being banned from ever being allowed behind a wheel to start with, wev'e bred a nation of arseholes, dont expect it to get any better as it wont.

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Love it
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Me too
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I personally think 25-30mph is a happy medium.



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Sorry, but this is simply too fast in such conditions as MsElz was in. I applaud LZT for her posts, agree with them completely.

Lets stop blaming others and ALL take some rsponsibility.
 
OP was going 25mph and was criticised for going too fast. Presumably she should have been going 10mph on a normal road connecting two towns.

If you want to say this, all I am saying is that you need to be consistent. Yes, on a motorway there are more lanes, but this does not help you if you get a flat tyre, have a break failure, move into the same lane as another car, have a heart-attack, etc. all hazards which can cause an accidence but which you can prevent by driving slower. So if OP should have gone at 10mph, then we should all drive at 20mph on the motorway.

Not a legal expert, but I am pretty sure that the fact that a driver has injured/killed a horse (or a person for that matter) does not make them automatically liable, you would need to establish negligence. This is exactly the kind of thing you could NOT establish in OP's case, as she was going very slowly anyway.

If someone came on here and posted about her horse killed in an accident I would certainly feel very, very sorry for her, but I would not immediately assume that the driver was to blame. Horse riders are vulnerable road users and entitled to extra care and consideration, BUT this is not a license to do all sorts of dangerous things like ride without hi-viz, ride on busy/unsuitable roads, etc.
 
I am lucky, I dont have to ride on the roads, I have a 5 mile perimeter ride around my yard and the farm. It was a big selling point when I moved there.
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The roads are getting more dangerous in my opinion, or maybe I am just seeing the dangers more as I get older
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I have to go along a straight bit of our lane to get to my summer field and sometimes people drive ridiculously fast down there, even on the bends, I've had a few near misses with big transit vans
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and I only go 20mph at the FASTEST when I can see the road ahead, I'm down to 10mph on the bends
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I just dont want to risk my horses being riden on the road, and I am lucky that I dont have to
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