Scary ride today , how to avoid the same situation

[maya2008]

From his point of view, he was getting himself and you to safety. Cows categorically aren’t safe. They can be, but they can also turn on you in a second. I won’t ride through fields with cows in, partly from prior experience and partly because even riding along the fenceline past them can cause them to chase us. A cow defending her calves? All your horse saw was danger. Sometimes then, they forget there is a fence even if you’re safely on the other side of it. I tend to lead in-hand past cows if at all unsure of their reactions, putting myself between pony and cow. They’ll prance a bit and snort next to me if we end up walking beside a herd of thundering heifers, but they’ll keep walking. Mature cows are usually fine so long as we’re not in the field, but the instincts would still be there for the horse.

 

[JBM]

I had a Clydesdale mare who was very worried about cattle, she was unhappy just passing the farmyard when there were no cows in sight, until we came here and there were cattle in the next field. As soon as she realised that the cows had *babies* with them she got over herself, so that she could lean over the wall and talk to them.

My mare LOVES calves. I find once mine live with sheep and cows for awhile they get used to their antics. More work to be done with the new girl in a safe space as she tries to fight sheep

 

[Steerpike]

Any chance you can ask a nice local farmer if you can turn your horse out with his cows for a day or offer a few weeks grazing for his calves
My horses get turned out with bunch of animals so nothing is scary

I knew someone who did this with a their horse that didn't like cows much, it didn't end well with the horse going through a barbed wire fence so I wouldn't advise that.

 

[JBM]

I knew someone who did this with a their horse that didn't like cows much, it didn't end well with the horse going through a barbed wire fence so I wouldn't advise that.

I usually separate with an electric fence first like introducing two new horses so they can talk over the fence but the horse can still have their own space if they want.
Cows are very curious so would crowd a horse

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I do think that 6 seconds is a substantial period of time if they have done one, too long for me to feel comfortable with anyway. Obviously, any loss of control isn't good on the road, but I have a 3 stride rule, as in I must have pulled up by 3 strides. I find that after 3 strides, they can sort of take over. 3 strides is forgivable when startled, for a youngster, but as they mature I expect them to stamp their feet, jig or crouch in place.

If mine managed a 6 second take off (so likely substantially more than 6 strides) I would add extra braking until I had worked the problem. For example, if in a snaffle, I would change to a pelham with the same mouthpiece as the snaffle, ride on the snaffle rein unless it hits the fan, then hoick them up on the bottom rein. I would really sit them on their backsides, as more than 3 strides goes from startle to disobedience.

I know many would disagree.

I wouldn't be so hot on desensitising to cows per se. I would firstly make sure the horse is off the aids and between leg and hand. Any transgression would be worked on. I would go sort of scary stuff and make sure the horse can stay tuned in to the aids. Shoulders in line but mostly intention remaining forwards.

This is the process my BH is going through this year. He is generally placid so last year I simply hacked around on a long rein. If I needed it, I simply put a kimblewick in (as he wanted to chew the second rein of the pelham LOL). He is bigger and stronger this year so he is learning to go between leg and hand. Currently, he is not such a fan as it is hard work. We just came back from a lovely ride though, where he may have been worried about some things, may have walked like he had a brush shoved up his backside, may have had occasional wrinkles in front of his withers, but he stayed in his box. Stayed in a straight line.

Of course, they are all animals, will all be startled. I just think that 6 seconds is straying into disobedience and ignoring the aids. I actually prefer it when they do the push up donkey type startle. Safe from cars when they do that!

Thanks for this other opinion , I do know him very well and he was extremely fearful rather than misbehaving, he was doing that awful loud snort they do when in danger. I don’t think it would have mattered what bit he was wearing it was w blind panic which was pretty scary. In 2.5 years he’s never reacted like that usually his head comes up he’s hesitant may spin but usually with reassurance sorts himself out.

He’s strong cantering in company but not like that, didn’t help thst I kind of froze.

He’s a very kind horse and is anxious to please.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I knew someone who did this with a their horse that didn't like cows much, it didn't end well with the horse going through a barbed wire fence so I wouldn't advise that.

I think it may work for some but might be a baptism of fire , maybe from a fair distance.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

From his point of view, he was getting himself and you to safety. Cows categorically aren’t safe. They can be, but they can also turn on you in a second. I won’t ride through fields with cows in, partly from prior experience and partly because even riding along the fenceline past them can cause them to chase us. A cow defending her calves? All your horse saw was danger. Sometimes then, they forget there is a fence even if you’re safely on the other side of it. I tend to lead in-hand past cows if at all unsure of their reactions, putting myself between pony and cow. They’ll prance a bit and snort next to me if we end up walking beside a herd of thundering heifers, but they’ll keep walking. Mature cows are usually fine so long as we’re not in the field, but the instincts would still be there for the horse.

Yes I think he was running with fear I was so frozen I didn’t do much bar let out a little scream. We went past cows on way home on the same ride and was ok , as they are always there !

 

[PeterNatt]

I would start to descencertise your horse to cows by putting him in a well fenced (post and rail) field next to them and then eventually in a field with cows. I would also ride him out with several horses that don't react to cows and put him in a posuition wheer the other horses are closer to the cows and he is within the group so that he feels more confident and secure.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I would start to descencertise your horse to cows by putting him in a well fenced (post and rail) field next to them and then eventually in a field with cows. I would also ride him out with several horses that don't react to cows and put him in a posuition wheer the other horses are closer to the cows and he is within the group so that he feels more confident and secure.

I am very happy at my current livery, and know no cow owners….

 

[Caol Ila]

I am very happy at my current livery, and know no cow owners….

I was in the same position with my very cow-reactive horse. I probably posted about it on this forum, or on COTH, and had to dismiss every suggestion of 'put her in a field with/next to cows,' because I didn't have access to cows. That wasn't going to happen. It therefore wasn't ideal that all cow encounters took place on the road, where if the horse has a meltdown, you have to get yourself out of there in once piece, and that is all you can do.

I got the horse to the point where she could go past cows grazing quietly, but if they got rambunctious or curious and came to the fence, she would lose it.

One time, quite a few years ago, I was on a hack with a mother and her teenage daughter. Mum was on an older cob; kid was on a young TB-type. We came around a corner to find a large herd of dairy cows. Like the OP, I'd hoped the cows were still in, but the farmer had just turned them out. Oh, cock, I thought when I saw them. At first, all was calm, and I hoped to sneak past. If the cows stayed quiet, we would manage it. They did not. One of the cows spotted us and cantered up to the fence. That inspired the whole herd to do the same. Gypsum and TB-type exploded. Went totally bananas. Mum grabbed daughter's reins and dragged them forwards. Gypsum was snorting like a dragon, leaping, spinning, but the spins took us further and further backwards, away from our hacking buddies who were marching along the fence in the opposite direction. Well, f*ck, I thought. Being separated from the other horses by a large herd of dairy cows was really not ideal. They definitely weren't coming back for me. Mum and kid were so focused on kid's horse that they had no idea what I was doing, or where I was.

After a lot more spinning and airs above the ground, I got Gypsum somewhat in front of my leg. By this point, my hacking companions were miles away, almost at the end of the cow field. I sent her forward, and she shot into a brisk canter, racing down the road past the bouncy bovines, who were partying like this was the most exciting day, ever. I didn't care. She was going where I wanted her to go, and if using speed and power got us there, then fine. Mum now remembered I was there, and started hollering at me to stop cantering because it was upsetting her kid's mare. I looked at her and said calmly, "At this point, I can control either speed or direction but not both."

Gypsum cooled her jets once we were safely past the cows. Don't think I repeated that route for the remainder of the time I was at that yard.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Hes from Ireland so imagine he’s have seen all of these things as a youngster but highly doubt positive experiences, he was driven young like way too young

Just a little observation, but curious that you assume as he was from Ireland you highly doubt he had positive experiences? We don't all beat our horses up and thrash them around the place you know. Same as the UK, we do have our own fair share of gobshites who train (badly) and trade in horses but it does irk me somewhat that if a horse is Irish, and happens to display ANY negative traits or behaviour it is all because he came from Ireland and was obviously mishandled, beaten, abused etc.! I've had a few English horses that were pretty much ruined by their earlier life but I don't assume all English horses will misbehave and have some issues because it must have have had the same background and mistreatment. I agree if he was driven it is quite possible he was too young, a lot of riding horse are also broken young over here too but most folks from overseas seem to still quite like buying our horses.

He will pass all sorts of scary vehicles, road works , flags etc but is terrified of pigs, donkeys and cows

That would indicate to me he was more likely a driven/ridden horse in an urban area rather than from rural Ireland. Even if he was from rural Ireland hacking out is not the be all and end all it is in the UK. A good proportion of Irish rural horse owners do not hack out anywhere other than perhaps forestry or the beach, so unlikely he will have seen much in the way of other livestock.

Sorry not having a go at you , more of a general observation about the perceived view and often repeated generalization by many from the UK, of Irish horse training and earlier background. I am sure you will soon get past this small blip in his otherwise excellent behaviour and attitude to being ridden.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Just a little observation, but curious that you assume as he was from Ireland you highly doubt he had positive experiences? We don't all beat our horses up and thrash them around the place you know. Same as the UK, we do have our own fair share of gobshites who train (badly) and trade in horses but it does irk me somewhat that if a horse is Irish, and happens to display ANY negative traits or behaviour it is all because he came from Ireland and was obviously mishandled, beaten, abused etc.! I've had a few English horses that were pretty much ruined by their earlier life but I don't assume all English horses will misbehave and have some issues because it must have have had the same background and mistreatment. I agree if he was driven it is quite possible he was too young, a lot of riding horse are also broken young over here too but most folks from overseas seem to still quite like buying our horses.

That would indicate to me he was more likely a driven/ridden horse in an urban area rather than from rural Ireland. Even if he was from rural Ireland hacking out is not the be all and end all it is in the UK. A good proportion of Irish rural horse owners do not hack out anywhere other than perhaps forestry or the beach, so unlikely he will have seen much in the way of other livestock.

Sorry not having a go at you , more of a general observation about the perceived view and often repeated generalization by many from the UK, of Irish horse training and earlier background. I am sure you will soon get past this small blip in his otherwise excellent behaviour and attitude to being ridden.

Sorry if it came accross like that I meant he was driven super young , came with scars, petrified of men, again trying not to be deragotoury of the travelling community , as I know many whose horses are treated like royalty, however he was not, again that’s not exclusive to Ireland.

 

[Red-1]

Thanks for this other opinion , I do know him very well and he was extremely fearful rather than misbehaving, he was doing that awful loud snort they do when in danger. I don’t think it would have mattered what bit he was wearing it was w blind panic which was pretty scary. In 2.5 years he’s never reacted like that usually his head comes up he’s hesitant may spin but usually with reassurance sorts himself out.

He’s strong cantering in company but not like that, didn’t help thst I kind of froze.

He’s a very kind horse and is anxious to please.

If you just want supported, progressive introduction to cows, I would perhaps look at going to Guy Robertson, just off the M18/M62. He can do private lessons or clinics.

BH wasn't that keen on cows and I needed to help him as the local farmer drives his cattle up and down the main street in the village. Sometimes they canter at speed! I needed BH to have experienced cows before that day, just to give us both a chance at being safe.

I did a private session first, just me and Guy with his horse, so 2 horses and a couple of cows to start with so mine could hide behind his.

In fact, we actually started with his lashed to the arena fence and BH doing ground work in the arena next to the cows, then ridden next to the cows, but separated by a fence, then 2 horses and some cows in, but Guy controlling the cows then, gradually, BH got the hang of following and driving, then, by the end of an hour, he could manage the cows alone.

The week after we did a weekend clinic, 5 horses and a stack of cows, and he could cut them off, cut one out, drive independently etc.

There are tape pens and/or stables and some accommodation.

 

[Caol Ila]

If you just want supported, progressive introduction to cows, I would perhaps look at going to Guy Robertson, just off the M18/M62. He can do private lessons or clinics.

BH wasn't that keen on cows and I needed to help him as the local farmer drives his cattle up and down the main street in the village. Sometimes they canter at speed! I needed BH to have experienced cows before that day, just to give us both a chance at being safe.

I did a private session first, just me and Guy with his horse, so 2 horses and a couple of cows to start with so mine could hide behind his.

In fact, we actually started with his lashed to the arena fence and BH doing ground work in the arena next to the cows, then ridden next to the cows, but separated by a fence, then 2 horses and some cows in, but Guy controlling the cows then, gradually, BH got the hang of following and driving, then, by the end of an hour, he could manage the cows alone.

The week after we did a weekend clinic, 5 horses and a stack of cows, and he could cut them off, cut one out, drive independently etc.

There are tape pens and/or stables and some accommodation.

That sounds fun!!

I did do a cow clinic with Gypsum many years ago, when we still lived in CO. It was with a natural horsemanship type trainer. I spent most of the clinic practicing high speed half-passes, and the trainer wasn’t doing a whole lot to help her deal with the cows in a more positive way. It was a long time ago ( I was about 18) and I don’t know what he could or should have done differently - probably something similar to what Guy did - but it sure didn’t fix anything.

We were in a group of horses, most of whom were fine, in a large open space. He didn’t start by controlling interactions through the fence, so we had no idea which horses were okay and which weren’t until we got to the field.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I probably should have done the same but needed to get off to retrieve my phone /vape whilst he did that awful extra loud snort they do .

It’s not always practically possible. I was lucky to have had the time.

I actually agree with others on the thread in that I don’t mind them being afraid of cows. Cows are really dangerous. What I object to is them prioritising their reaction over my aids.

Mine can roll eyes, snort, dance a bit, and I don’t have a problem with it. But no one gets to decide when we gallop except me!

 

[Red-1]

That sounds fun!!

I did do a cow clinic with Gypsum many years ago, when we still lived in CO. It was with a natural horsemanship type trainer. I spent most of the clinic practicing high speed half-passes, and the trainer wasn’t doing a whole lot to help her deal with the cows in a more positive way. It was a long time ago ( I was about 18) and I don’t know what he could or should have done differently - probably something similar to what Guy did - but it sure didn’t fix anything.

We were in a group of horses, most of whom were fine, in a large open space. He didn’t start by controlling interactions through the fence, so we had no idea which horses were okay and which weren’t until we got to the field.

No cows were brought in until all clinic horses were managing their emotions! We did a load of fun stuff before the cows, practiced cutting using another horse to cut, it really sat them on their asses, great exercise even if you were never to meet a cow.

If I had a problem, it was that BH, once he got a grip of the situation, perhaps enjoyed herding cattle a little too much. He really bought into it and had to be told that no, biting or striking at cows was not an appropriate way to get them to move faster!

 

[MrsMurs]

I have had my cob 2.5 years, he came to me as a very green 10 year old , no malice but scared of his own shadow. For the past year he’s got better and better and tries to please and enjoys his work.

He will pass all sorts of scary vehicles, road works , flags etc but is terrified of pigs, donkeys and cows . Ordinarily if he sees one he does a spin and tries to escape but not far, has a panic and will nervously pass.

Today we did a familiar ride , the cows have been in for winter and i thought still in….. wrong. They were lying unseen in a dip, he saw them and tensed up but was ok until a cow and 2 calves suddenly got up . He bolted down a steep road in complete panic , stopped after 6 seconds (I have Equilab it felt like a lot longer). Thankfully I stayed in saddle , he didn’t slip, no cars were coming but now I’m nervous about how I can avoid this kind of reaction again, he has never done it before and I’m hoping never will again but how can you desensitise to this kind of situation. He has frequent physio/osteo/dentist/saddle checks etc I don’t think this was pain but was fight or flight, not helped by fact I froze.

Could you jump off and walk him in hand past them? Sometimes having you at their head can inspire confidence. You could walk back and forth a few times and reward with treats and praise.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No cows were brought in until all clinic horses were managing their emotions! We did a load of fun stuff before the cows, practiced cutting using another horse to cut, it really sat them on their asses, great exercise even if you were never to meet a cow.

If I had a problem, it was that BH, once he got a grip of the situation, perhaps enjoyed herding cattle a little too much. He really bought into it and had to be told that no, biting or striking at cows was not an appropriate way to get them to move faster!

We used to have a cob whose favourite hack was past the field full of bullocks. If they were at the top of the hill just at the other side of the wall from the bridle path he would creep upon them and snort as loudly as he could. Then watch them rush off down the hill in a panic. He was not worried about cattle at all and took no notice of any others that we passed.

 

[Peglo]

I’m lucky that the farmer next door puts his boisterous yearlings in the field next to the ponies so they are very used to stampeding cows and don’t bat an eye. My old TB actually flirted with them quite a lot

Tali putting them in their place

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Could you jump off and walk him in hand past them? Sometimes having you at their head can inspire confidence. You could walk back and forth a few times and reward with treats and praise.

This is my plan he’ll follow anyone past something scary !

 

[Boulty]

Red has now made me want to add cattle herding clinic to my wish list of things to do with the Fuzzball at some point in his life. I might have the problem that he’ll want to lick them rather than herd them though!

 

[MagicMelon]

I had similar with my now-retired horse. He was fine with cows for a few months, then one decided to jump a wooden gate between fields as we passed so my horse span and bolted straight through a barbed wire fence and bronc'd until I fell off. After that he was never the same, he bolted again with me a few days later when walking past a field of cows on a hack and then started to tense up a 3rd time when we saw cows in a field so I got off him thinking I could lead him past quietly, he thought otherwise and pulled away tanking off down the tarmac road 2 miles home. That was it for me, I gave up hacking him for our safety. Weirdly the horse was always totally fine to be ridden beside a field of cows and compete beside them etc. But a solo hack past them no way.

 

[Caol Ila]

No cows were brought in until all clinic horses were managing their emotions! We did a load of fun stuff before the cows, practiced cutting using another horse to cut, it really sat them on their asses, great exercise even if you were never to meet a cow.

All of us had done clinics with the trainer before, but at our barn, not his ranch. It was all the natural horsemanship stuff that was en vogue at the time (late 90s/early 2000s) like lots of disengaging the hindquarters, backing up, join-up, etc. No cows were involved.

Winging a bunch of horses and riders straight into a field with cattle when neither the trainer nor the riders knew how the horses would react (none of us had cow experience; most were dressage horses; and there were no cows near the barn so we didn't know how our horses would even hack past them) was perhaps not the best approach.

 

[Barton Bounty]

My mare LOVES calves. I find once mine live with sheep and cows for awhile they get used to their antics. More work to be done with the new girl in a safe space as she tries to fight sheep

Judy the wee mammy

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I had similar with my now-retired horse. He was fine with cows for a few months, then one decided to jump a wooden gate between fields as we passed so my horse span and bolted straight through a barbed wire fence and bronc'd until I fell off. After that he was never the same, he bolted again with me a few days later when walking past a field of cows on a hack and then started to tense up a 3rd time when we saw cows in a field so I got off him thinking I could lead him past quietly, he thought otherwise and pulled away tanking off down the tarmac road 2 miles home. That was it for me, I gave up hacking him for our safety. Weirdly the horse was always totally fine to be ridden beside a field of cows and compete beside them etc. But a solo hack past them no way.

Oh no im hoping this doesn’t become a regular thing and was a one off

 

[Sanversera]

Thanks for this other opinion , I do know him very well and he was extremely fearful rather than misbehaving, he was doing that awful loud snort they do when in danger. I don’t think it would have mattered what bit he was wearing it was w blind panic which was pretty scary. In 2.5 years he’s never reacted like that usually his head comes up he’s hesitant may spin but usually with reassurance sorts himself out.

He’s strong cantering in company but not like that, didn’t help thst I kind of froze.

He’s a very kind horse and is anxious to please.

Sounds like he was terrified,my horse is the same with cows and the other day the farmers turned some into a field I have to go past in order to hack out. Took me half an hour to go a normal 5 min walk yesterday as he could smell them then he saw one. Hopefully he'll get used to passing them soon and calm down.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Sounds like he was terrified,my horse is the same with cows and the other day the farmers turned some into a field I have to go past in order to hack out. Took me half an hour to go a normal 5 min walk yesterday as he could smell them then he saw one. Hopefully he'll get used to passing them soon and calm down.

Yes he’s ok if they are in the distance grazing but if moving/close he just loses it. We did get to a point he was ok ish but then some heifers galloped round at speed near the fence and that blew his tiny mind.

 

[Tarragon]

Like the others, I don't think it was necessarily the cows that is the problem, more just being caught by surprise by the movement.
I think that there isn't a quick fix to this sort of problem. The only solution is to build on getting a really solid relationship, so you both trust each other, and to put lots of miles on the clock to just experience the unpredictable world together, so, for example, go out for 4 hours instead of 1 and include new routes all the time.
I have the same problem; I have a pony that I am in the process of backing, who hasn't seen anything of the world (was mostly doing conservation grazing on open moorland for the first 6 years of his life), and finds all of it rather scary. I have had him nearly 18 months now, and we are still doing most of the work out on the local roads and in hand, because I don't trust his reaction yet. It looks like we are not getting anywhere very fast, but looking back over my diaries, we are gradually ticking off what he is happy to face, and we certainly know each other a whole lot more, which hopefully means that when faced with something totally unexpected, something that you cannot plan for or train for, we both trust each other to not do anything stupid.

 

[Michen]

I do think that 6 seconds is a substantial period of time if they have done one, too long for me to feel comfortable with anyway. Obviously, any loss of control isn't good on the road, but I have a 3 stride rule, as in I must have pulled up by 3 strides. I find that after 3 strides, they can sort of take over. 3 strides is forgivable when startled, for a youngster, but as they mature I expect them to stamp their feet, jig or crouch in place.

If mine managed a 6 second take off (so likely substantially more than 6 strides) I would add extra braking until I had worked the problem. For example, if in a snaffle, I would change to a pelham with the same mouthpiece as the snaffle, ride on the snaffle rein unless it hits the fan, then hoick them up on the bottom rein. I would really sit them on their backsides, as more than 3 strides goes from startle to disobedience.

I know many would disagree.

I wouldn't be so hot on desensitising to cows per se. I would firstly make sure the horse is off the aids and between leg and hand. Any transgression would be worked on. I would go sort of scary stuff and make sure the horse can stay tuned in to the aids. Shoulders in line but mostly intention remaining forwards.

This is the process my BH is going through this year. He is generally placid so last year I simply hacked around on a long rein. If I needed it, I simply put a kimblewick in (as he wanted to chew the second rein of the pelham LOL). He is bigger and stronger this year so he is learning to go between leg and hand. Currently, he is not such a fan as it is hard work. We just came back from a lovely ride though, where he may have been worried about some things, may have walked like he had a brush shoved up his backside, may have had occasional wrinkles in front of his withers, but he stayed in his box. Stayed in a straight line.

Of course, they are all animals, will all be startled. I just think that 6 seconds is straying into disobedience and ignoring the aids. I actually prefer it when they do the push up donkey type startle. Safe from cars when they do that!

Completely agree with all of this and having had a young horse whose instinct was to run when panicked, we had to go right back to ground work. That meant teaching him to stop and face whatever was scaring him.

In the mean time he was always hacked in draw reins, loose on his neck ready to grab when needed, and that broke the habit.