Schedule states no first aider or paramedic

[applecart14]

Debating whether to compete of not on Sunday as the schedule clearly states no first aider or paramedic in attendance.

Its an arena eventing type of event.

What are your views on holding events (particuarly XC) when the centre provides no first aid. I thought by law they had to.
Does this mean that the organisers do not have to have a first aid person on site during the event or just that they are getting away with not have one?

 

[*Nik*]

Personally if it involves jumping I don't think I would be happy without at least a first aider on sight.

Wouldn't be worried for dressage

 

[sarahann1]

I don't know what the rules are, but I know my local riding club will not run any event, be it dressage or jumping without an first aider on site. I think most, if not all of the committee are first aiders.

I personally wouldn't go, if they are scrimping on something like that, what on earth else are they scrimping on??

 

[Happy Hunter]

Is it an unaffiliated sort of thing? Even riding clubs have to provide some first aid cover, if jumping especially.
I should think several attendee's will have basic first aid knowledge.

Ask yourself - Who is your 'first aider' when schooling at home or when hiring local facilities.

Personal choice really. I dont think anyone can tell you its going to be fine, as we all know, sometimes things happen.

Edited to say - What really gets my goat, is when competitors pay £3 each for first aid, to find out there was none!!!

 

[applecart14]

Is it an unaffiliated sort of thing?
Yes it is unaffiliated, its only small (my class will probably be 2ft 3- 2ft 6).

Ask yourself - Who is your 'first aider' when schooling at home or when hiring local facilities.
Yes this is true.


Edited to say - What really gets my goat, is when competitors pay £3 each for first aid, to find out there was none!!!

This used to happen frequently at my local club. The 'first aider' was usually so pi**ed with the amount of wine she had drunk she couldn't walk in a straight line, let alone tend to a patient!

 

[Red-1]

The first aider thing would not worry me in itself, but I would want to be very sure they were fixing down the fixed fences in some way as these have caused accidents.

 

[unicornystar]

they must surely have a First Aider on site or be damn close to a hospital? unless they are completely mad to run such an event. As above I would be even more concerned that they were not fixed down portable xc jumps? - that is very dangerous at any level....personally I would give it a miss if no first aider, for a small bit of ribbon it's just not worth it.

 

[Apercrumbie]

How can they be insured without a first aider? From volunteering at PC and RC events I thought it was mandatory. Must be wrong.

 

[Orangehorse]

I thought you were going to say dressage competition or mini club-only show jumping, which has happened at our local riding club. But for a xcountry event with outside riders surely this isn't allowed and they wouldn't be covered by insurance.
I guess they have put that on the schedule so it is your choice!

 

[MagicMelon]

To be honest, if you realised how little first aiders know then personally I wouldn't be terribly bothered. Having done the basic course most of these people go on, I know I wouldnt be equipped to do much in the case of an accident and it horrifies me that I have to pay £2 extra for events to have someone with such little knowledge there (don't mind if its a proper paramedic obviously). But I would query it being a bit dodgy since I thought events had to have cover for insurance.

 

[Batgirl]

There isn't a legal requirement to have first aid, it is based on risk assessment, most people arranging equine events risk assess that there should be a first aider. My riding club always has a First Aider (I am one of them). I wouldn't be overly bothered if they didn't have a first aider if they aren't a particular establishment, I can't say that it is something I would check or notice at an event shamefully!

 

[JFTDWS]

To be honest, if you realised how little first aiders know then personally I wouldn't be terribly bothered. Having done the basic course most of these people go on, I know I wouldnt be equipped to do much in the case of an accident and it horrifies me that I have to pay £2 extra for events to have someone with such little knowledge there (don't mind if its a proper paramedic obviously). But I would query it being a bit dodgy since I thought events had to have cover for insurance.

This is very true! Unless it's paramedics, I would be completely unconcerned by the presence or absence of a first aider. I wouldn't go though - I agree re insurance, and the risks of unfixed portables etc.

 

[_GG_]

I too can't see how this can be ok with insurance. I wouldn't go. A woman got thrown off a horse at riding club last year and I had to reason with most of the riders to be patient and stay up the other end of the indoor as the ambulance was coming and the last thing we wanted was an abulance spooking a horse as it was going past the poor woman on the floor and making things 10 x worse. She had a suspected broken back and that was at a flatwork session. I think a few rules were changed following that.

Scarily, the instructor, a well known eventer and instructor didn't know what to do. He knew the woman well so was obviously worried, but he froze up and it was left to me and a good friend to sort things.

Any venue, especially when jumping is involved, but all disciplines, should have a very well rehearsed emergency plan in place for when things go wrong.

The woman was ok in the end, no break, but very badly bruised. She was thrown into a barrier and double barrelled as well, poor thing.

 

[dieseldog]

And to be honest there isn't a lot a first aider can actually do. From personal experience when I had a terrible accident all they could do was say there there. If I had had a heart attack they probably could have done something, but a smashed up arm they weren't allowed to do a thing.

BSJA changed their rules a while ago to say that shows could only charge for first aid if there was a proper first aider there rather than office staff who have done the basic course. But at the last BS show I was at, where I was charged £9 there was no one there.

 

[rara007]

Going against the grain I'd go- odd they specifically mention not having one though!
I don't tend to even consider looking what medical facility they have, but then I only jump very small on little ponies! I'm a first aider and at least 50% of shows I take a friend/family to who could also do it. When I'm alone I try not to fall off or get a bash to the head
I'd give the jumps a close look to see if they were safe as always, but most arena XC round here is strongly WH based anyway

 

[honetpot]

I do think the first aid thing gets a bit out of hand, because of the consequences of moving someone after a bad fall often they call an ambulance anyway so they can be put on a spinal board. I think everyone should learn the recovery position for care of someone who is unconscious but if someone's knocked out your going to call an ambulance. I do think show organisers should make sure there is address and a postcode so the ambulance would know where to go I also have heard of event organisers informing the local ambulance service of the date and address prior to an event but now everything is centralised so unfortunately the chances of the information through are slight.

 

[Mike007]

I doubt that it makes much difference. Having been at the receiving end of paid first aiders attentions at the Hampton sponsored ride, ANY of the bystanders could have done a better job(and indeed tried to stop the first aider from actually killing me!)Luck was on my side that my back wasnt broken when (in much pain) they persuaded me to try to stand up. I was fortunate ,I had merely paralysed my right arm chest and diapragm. The hospital went absolutely apeshit that I had been moved . So ,Cutting to the chase , dont feel that with paid killers ....sorry ,I mean paid first aiders ,that you are any way safer. Good grief ,they didnt even want to put me on a spinal board because it would have meant unloading all their nice shiny kit out of the back of their nice shiny land rover.

 

[Tnavas]

I don't know whether UK rules are the same as NZ but if the competition is being judged using the Equestrian Federations rules there is a risk assessment listing in the rule book. there are different levels for different functions.

At anything that involves jumping we have an ambulance service on the grounds with an attending paramedic. The ambulance may not leave the grounds until a replacement arrives, which I find crazy. The injured person could need real emergency care. The Westpac helicopter is often used to remove the injured as sometimes the distances from venue to hospital can be 100+kms along winding roads.

At the recent North Island MOunted Games Championships we had an emergency ambulance in attendance.

 

[twobearsarthur]

All my family work in the medical profession. Paramedics, nurses etc....
A few years ago my Auntie (Paramedic) came off show jumping. It was a like a sprint to the finishing line as I (nurse), my dad (paramedic) & my Uncle (another Paramedic) raced across the course shouting for the first aider not to touch her !!!!
That is the faith we had in the provided first aid provision.
However I would be worried as to why the event felt the need to advertise that they didn't have this cover in place/or why they felt they didn't need to put it in place.

 

[sarahann1]

Wow, what a thread to make first aiders feel valued....

I'm an emergency first aider and my primary concern is to help, I'm very well aware not to move anyone who even remotely complains of back pain. I was trained by a paramedic, I'm also very well aware that I'm not one.

We aren't all morons

 

[Jesstickle]

To be honest, if you realised how little first aiders know then personally I wouldn't be terribly bothered. Having done the basic course most of these people go on, I know I wouldnt be equipped to do much in the case of an accident and it horrifies me that I have to pay £2 extra for events to have someone with such little knowledge there (don't mind if its a proper paramedic obviously). But I would query it being a bit dodgy since I thought events had to have cover for insurance.

Agreed. I am also a trained first aider. I am trained to basically not touch you and call for an ambulance. True story.

After a slight run in with paramedics I am even a bit wary about them touching me after an accident. Just cart me to the hospital thanks very much! (if they ask how much it hurts and you know you've broken something say 10 do NOT say 5 or 6!!) Obviously paramedics save lives so this is a bit tongue in cheek and I would be very glad indeed to see them if I were having a heart attack, just not so much for smashed up limbs

It wouldn't stop me going but I am probably reckless or something

 

[armchair_rider]

I think that in general the value of a first aider is that they know what NOT to do and should theoretically save you from the sort of thing that happened to Mike. Somebody who has the confidence to say that person is staying where they are and we are calling an ambulance for them could be a lifesaver.

 

[windand rain]

Depends on the level of first aid training but as said it is more what not to do than what to do. I am a first responder and am extremely well trained and sometimes it is the paramedics and ambulance drivers that make me cringe but it is their job Would I go to an event without one probably but I would check out any risks myself once I got there after all wherever my ponies go they take two first responders with them Me and OH

 

[hannahandteddy]

Having been on the receiveing end of some pretty shoddy first aid after landing on my head, I'm not sure how much difference it would make. I was made to walk back to the horse box even though I wasn't exactly coherent.

However, I got kicked in the head in December and ended up doing my own head bandage as the one the paramedic put on fell off straight away . He did admit that he rarely leaves the office but due to nobody else available he had no choice (one of the big bosses I believe). I then got glued back together in A&E and sent home! 2 weeks later I was having an op to have said glue removed from near my eye ball . So even the highly trained people don't always get it right .

 

[MagicMelon]

Also, to be honest everyone rides at home or in training with no first aider around so I dont see why its much different at an event, I wonder what the stats are for people falling at events V at home, I know personally I have fallen off more often at home by far! Its true that first aiders know what NOT to do (hopefully) but then I would think MOST people know nowadays not to move someone if they fall off, not to take their hat off etc. and call an ambulance if they're out of it or in pain. Common sense really. Personally I'd rather have a vet on site, that would be more comforting

 

[Theocat]

As someone said above, it comes down to the risk assessment. I'm a first aider and we always have first aid in place for our club events (most instructors should be qualified as they need to be covered if, say, they're teaching someone individually at their own yard). However, BRC likes you to have a step up from emergency first aid, which we can't always provide - but we're only five minutes from A&E, so I think the residual risk of having only basic first aiders is acceptable.

As long as the club involved has thought about why they aren't providing first aid and has a logical and justifiable reason for it (ie hospital next door) it wouldn't bother me. If they think they can somehow absolve themselves from responsibility if people choose to ride without a first aider there, and that saying so it like having a form of disclaimer - they could be in for a very rude shock if someone does come to harm.

 

[Pebble101]

There are minimum first aid requirements (and veterinary cover) for events run by affiliated Riding Clubs. I have no idea of the requirements for BE, BS or BD. Unaffiliated events I assume make their own decisions based on a risk assessment.

I twisted my ankle at the RC Championships and went to the paramedics to bandage it so I could drive home. They looked at me like I was mad and put the most useless bandage on. I ended up doing it myself - I had horses in the days before boots

 

[Horsemad12]

First aid at work regulations give "guidance" on the number of first aiders required based on risk level of activity and numbers present, this should include visitors / customers.

As I assume they are charging for you to be there and not doing it for free I would think they would find it hard to argue a case in the event of a serious accident.