Schnauzer..really bad news .

[Bellasophia]

Fankin ..My hub is a really good person but he loves too much.He hasn’t the heart to carry out these awful necessities,but will give me every support when it’s done..Ive only had to pts.once and that was my very old terrier at 16,with cancer..she went quietly but even then I went on my own. Most Italians I’ve met differ from us Brits,I think we are tougher in facing hard reality.

Everyones stories are very moving,I appreciate each and everyone’s input.
Tomorrow I will see the head vet( my vet) who is back from holiday..shes very down to earth and helped me with my apricot poodle who went through her 12 yr life with auto immune illness..she knows I’m not a quitter if there is any hope for the dogs improvement,but certain types of cancer such as this one have no good outcome and are best addressed sooner rather than later.

 

[satinbaze]

Sending virtual hugs. I’m sure you will make the right choices for both you and your girl

 

[Rumtytum]

So sorry Bellasophia. Heartbreaking decision to be made; you love her so much I know you will make the right decision even if it is the hardest.

 

[alibali]

I'm sorry you are facing this. She is lucky to have such a strong caring owner. Hugs

 

[splashgirl45]

so sorry, i had to have my deerhound PTS at just over 9 years old. i did know that many very big dogs dont make old bones but it was still hard to make that decision. i understand that you would like a little longer if she can be pain free but if it was me i would let her go tomorrow as you wouldnt be buying much more time. its an awful decision to make when ever you do it...hugs xx

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I’m so sorry. You know we’ve been through it recently. We refused chemo, although I’m told dogs tolerate it far better than humans (saw my best friend go through this ?) but we weren’t prepared to prolong it when we realised he was suffering. It’s a horrible, hard decision, especially for such a young dog, so bloody unfair. Sending hugs.

 

[ponyparty]

So sorry to read this. There are no words to make it easier. Sending love and strength.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I'm so sorry to read this. A friend is going through similar with her GSD bitch, she found a hard lump in her stomach and scan showed it to be a large tumour, and she has others. She is showing no real symptoms at the moment apart from slight lethargy but friend has declined treatment and as soon as she shows any signs of discomfort she will be pts.
Reading your posts it does sound as if your girl is going downhill, obviously you know her best and I understand wanting to discuss with a vet you trust, but I think if she were mine I would be letting her go. Thinking of you , this decision is the worst part of owning animals.

 

[meleeka]

Thinking of you today x

 

[TheOldTrout]

So sorry to hear your awful news. For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing. I don't like the idea of chemo for animals who can't understand, and to whom you can't explain, the awful side effects. Sending love xx

 

[Bellasophia]

tues night jr vet called …dogs blood results were erratic but wouldn’t send them by e mail I must wait to see the vet on Thursday..

Vet visit today.thursday…before she arrived the eco vet met me and asked if I wanted todo another ecograph….I politely declined and said I was here to see chief vet about last weeks eco etc..

chief arrived…started with a display of blood results ..mainly suggesting some inflammation and infection ,prob in the cancerous gut.She suggested antibiotics and maybe some mild prednisone.

when told dog was drinking more,weeing more to point of incontinence ,she suggested I may want to test for cushings..I said she’s not showing Cushing symptoms…she is in pain,doesn’t want to go on walk….she said she’s not seen the eco yet..
by now I’m getting agitated. what about the ecogram results I ask..the tumor on the bladder,the colon tumor?
the discussion switches..,she starts a long discussion about two dogs she’s treated with chemotherapy…..(here we go…I don’t want chemo for my dog..)
she asks me not to interrupt ,she’s in full flow…even her mom had cancer,92,mastectomy,and chemo( need to write thisword in gold )..then he two dogs chemo successes..but with othercancers,not inoperable bladder cancer..i am like a snake in front of a mongoose….
I politely interrupt…I dont want chemo…but,she says it can prolong my dogs time…I say by just a couple of months…she says for a dog it’s all time relative.,,I repeat I don’t want cheno …the cancer is inoperable.
she then says she can probably operate to remove the section of the colon with its tumor…l say but this still leaves the INOPERABLE tumour in the. bladder,,,I’m starting to be annoyed.
… and then she tells me that this is what the chemo will treat.

next the hovering eco lady comes in..vet suggests I do another eco to see if in a week anything has changed…
at this point. I agree..we go to do another eco….
my 1.5 cm bladder tumour has since grown to 1.7cm
and worse,we now we have another two tumors..1.2 cm…and a smaller one,,,the bladder wall has thickened and the lumen space is reduced… I say ..so now we can discuss euthanasia..?
she refuses if I don’t at least try prednisone,synulox antibiotic and arnica for a week..let’s see if the dog can go ahead with that for a while….
She says next week I must do another ecogram.
miracles can happen with chemo she says..

ive left the vet very disappointed,she’s let us both down…I am ready to euthanize..I’m stuck with this ,my dog is changing day by day and I truely am convinced I want to resolve this.My hub agrees with the meds,but not the chemo,nor euth this week…..I can’t understand this..why prolong the inevitable? Next week things will get very dramatic,but she says without tests proving this palliative care isn’t keeping her going she thinks I’m rushing things….Ching Ching.

 

[julesjoy]

I am so sorry BellaSophia that your veterinary practise is making this already difficult situation even harder. If I were you, I'd find another practise now to do the deed. Thinking of you.

 

[AmyMay]

Different vet??

 

[splashgirl45]

so,so sorry, you should not have to argue when you have made your decision.. can you get another vet to help? its bad enough you are having to deal with your own and OH emotions without the vet being difficult. if this is the senior vet you may as well change vets so in future you dont get all of this aggro....hugs xx

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Different vet??

At the same practice, I would definitely demand a swap. I cannot understand why she wants to prolong potential suffering. Surely it’s your choice? I think this is extremely unfair of her. As you say, ching ching. All I heard from our vet was ‘You’re doing the right thing’ (after the bonkers idea to operate when the referral hospital didn’t even know what was wrong. Er, no)

 

[splashgirl45]

i have had friends whose dogs had cancer, one a trailhound that i used to look after while his owners were at work, had all of the treatment including chemo and vet said he could have up to a year, he barely lasted 2 months and they had to call the vet late at night as he hemorraged and had had virtually gone by the time the vet got there. my friend couldnt forgive herself ...another was a flat coated retriever who had chemo and had a similar time, when their other flat coat was found to also have cancer they kept her on pain relief for a while then made that decision. a lab in my village had quite a few ops and chemo and got about another 8 months, but lots of that time was spent in the vets..i have always said if mine get cancer i will not give chemo or anything invasive and will PTS while they have a decent quality of life. might be worth letting your OH see this thread with real life examples...

 

[splashgirl45]

At the same practice, I would definitely demand a swap. I cannot understand why she wants to prolong potential suffering. Surely it’s your choice? I think this is extremely unfair of her. As you say, ching ching. All I heard from our vet was ‘You’re doing the right thing’ (after the bonkers idea to operate when the referral hospital didn’t even know what was wrong. Er, no)

i think its the senior vet who is the problem so i think a different practise or maybe a vet hospital who would look at thing differently

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm sorry that you are being put through this.

Is this an Italian thing? Life is sacred?

 

[Bellasophia]

After we come through this I will change vets..she is the top vet/ owner ..she was wonderful when my poodle went through auto immune issues all her life..but I literally spent thousands..this was maintainable ,and I kept her going with a good conscience.
For my little schnauzer I believe it is very wrong ,selfish even, to even consider dragging this out...there is no cure for this illness.,no other solution.
At least doing todays ecograph showed me I’m right to not agree to being railroaded into accepting chemo. I was a really upsetting when she shook her head and said” so your rejecting the chemo then?” as if I was throwing my girl under a bus.

 

[splashgirl45]

try and keep strong, you know your dog and should be the one to make the decision on her current and future quality of life

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Just to help you with your OH, we also were told up to a year with Zak by the RVC. It was a couple of weeks after their diagnosis and the last few days, I wanted to pts mid-week, but he was my OH’s dog and he took 2 days extra to make the decision because he was at work, not spending all day with him like I was.

I‘m really cross on your behalf. ?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

After we come through this I will change vets..she is the top vet/ owner ..she was wonderful when my poodle went through auto immune issues all her life..but I literally spent thousands..this was maintainable ,and I kept her going with a good conscience.
For my little schnauzer I believe it is very wrong ,selfish even, to even consider dragging this out...there is no cure for this illness.,no other solution.
At least doing todays ecograph showed me I’m right to not agree to being railroaded into accepting chemo. I was a really upsetting when she shook her head and said” so your rejecting the chemo then?” as if I was throwing my girl under a bus.

That’s so unfair. ?

 

[Bellasophia]

cinnamon,…I’m cross on my behalf too..lol

I'm sorry that you are being put through this.

Is this an Italian thing? Life is sacred?

you have no idea….life is sacred,in theory,yet in this case I believe money is the golden key.

In this day and age look at human issues here re euthanasia in terminally ill patients in Italy
https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/26/italy-moves-closer-to-a-referendum-on-legalising-euthanasia

the last line in the link says..
“The Vatican has consistently condemned the idea of legalising euthanasia, calling it "an intrinsically evil act".”

Even abortion laws are not lenient with very precise time retrictions( 7 weeks ) I believe.

I even struggle to get my hub to understand we won’t be “killing the dog” it is the cancer that is killing the dog..we will be helping her to be free of her suffering.

My mom had ALS..I nursed her for her last six months in uk…even she got morphine in her drip for the pain.…here my dying father got no similar pain relief (Italy) with a repaired hip and gangrene in his buttock.

 

[misst]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I cannot imagine how frustrating it must be. When all you want is what is best for your dog and to enjoy a little bit of time with her you have all this stress.
No suggestions just a hug and some wishes for your little one. You are both suffering I think x

 

[Clodagh]

I am so sorry that is truly appalling.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

I'm agog at your update regarding the vet visit. And fwiw I would never consider chemo for any animal unless it was curative. I hope you are able to sort your dog and well done for fighting her corner. Just wish you didn't have to deal with all that nonsense at an already stressful time.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I am truly appalled at this. That a vet would behave like this is beyond comprehension.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am so sorry that your vet visit did not go well.
If it helps, we had a previous Rott, who had to be pts aged 9. The vet, who we held in very high esteem suggested that we give her steroids (Preds), which he said would not cure anything but would help her feel better. She had liver cancer. He was absolutely right, she obviously felt great for the last 2 weeks of her life, although she then deteriorated rapidly at the end.

 

[TheresaW]

So sorry.

 

[Bellasophia]

I'm agog at your update regarding the vet visit. And fwiw I would never consider chemo for any animal unless it was curative. I hope you are able to sort your dog and well done for fighting her corner. Just wish you didn't have to deal with all that nonsense at an already stressful time.

in a nutshell..THIS absolutely
to all of you thanks..last night I was really upset..today I am myself again..I’m strong and convinced for my beliefs.You all have reaffirmed them.I read each and every post to my husband.This morning he apologized to me and said he will not oppose my decision.
Vet said she will phone me early next week to make a new appt…I’m not going for more ecograms,more inspirational pep talks on chemo..but Im going to say If she will receive me I will make the decision when the dog is ready to be let go.


pearls..last night she had prednisone,an antibiotic and arnica..she slept better and we only got up once at 4 am,as opposed to every 2 hours..but as you say,it’s a stopgap..the bladder and colon cancer will progress and I am resolved to get the deed done.Two good weeks sounds perfect to me .I find your input current and helpful,thank you so much.