Schooling issues. Advice needed.

charlie76

charlie76

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I bought in Oct 07 and smart big moving warmblood horse with the aim to do some BD/BE with him this season.
When we bought him home he proved to be nervous and sensitive both to handle and ride. He also was, and still is, weak across his top line.
I have managed to get him less sharp to ride but I am still struggling with him in terms of him finding a rythym, balance and his contact.
He is a very up hill horse but he really needs to work long and low to improve his topline, he finds this difficult and won't relax and stretch down- until he does this I feel with have hit a wall.
With regards to the contact he is not settled and still, he either leans or drops behind the contact and becomes to light.
He is also nosy and loses concentration as a result of this.
If I try to use more leg he gets tense and starts swishing his tail and gets tight.
I really want him to start relaxing, working over himself and usuing himself better.
He is just such a complex boy.
On the lunge he is still tense esp. in the canter. He is better in a chambon but still not perfect by any means.
I have tried the following bits:
New Schule with a lozenge
KK ultra
Happy mouth loose ring(with a joint)
Loose ring french link
Cheek snaffle
Eggbut french link
Eggbut snaffle

I know for a fact that he was ridden in draw reins before I bought him.

I am just finding that everything is almost 'forced'(horrible I know!) with him and if I could sort the contact out it would improve everything else.

I work on transtions, loops, circles- increasing and decreasing size, leg yield, shoulder in and counter flexion exercises.

Help!
Also, if anyone can reccomend a good instuctor in my area( berks) that would be happy to help me go back to basics and good with tricky horses I would be greatful.(pref one that comes to me.)
 
What kind of saddle have you got on him? Might be worth investing in/looking at different saddles to see if he is more comfortable working in another type of saddle.

My new horse sounds so similar to yours!, thought I'd hit a brick wall until I suddenly found a bit/noseband combo that he really liked and was totally comfortable with. ( that was a fulmer french link with a cavasson noseband)

He has also done loads of hacking out ( I have to because I have no arena) and when we are out on hacks, after making walk out on a loose rein for about 20 mins, I pick up the contact and we do lots of walk, halt, trot, back to walk, halt again, trot-walk trot all in straight lines. At first he got really tense- swung his quarters out, went overbent, popped his head up- didnt want to know, but after a while of making him straight, and not allowing him to over bend by raising the hand,then softening, and also,-most important thing, really really praising him every time he was relaxed and good,and he was just perfect at the end. I also gave him a polo every time we halted- and made a right fuss of him, talked to him, stroked his neck- and it it really seemed to work with getting him to relax and settle, and not get himself into a tense, uptight tizz.

Anyway, just an idea! Maybe try lots of hacking out for a while doing transitions out hacking, like I said above?
 
What noseband are you working in?
My mare had real issues with tension till we changed her noseband round.
 
I have exactly the same sort of horse which had been previously broken in and worked in Germany with a very strong hand, resulting in a very tight neck. When I got him he could hardly trot a 20 metre circle without being 'held up' through the hand.

The good news is that he is much, much better now, but it has taken a year for him to learn to work long and low and it has also taken this long for him to develop a proper top line and muscles along the top of his neck (rather than underneath!).

Here is what I found helpful:
- walk for ages before doing anything else, try 20m circles, then possibly 10m cicles and a bit of leg yielding. Ignore his neck carriage during this time, just keep your hand light and still. I should ignore impulsion as well and just let him walk any which way he wants to (for me the horse is loosening up not working yet so if he is not forwards it is not ideal, but if he won't accept the leg either you just have to live with it until he warms up)
- then go straight into canter, again ignore the neck carriage, keep the hand light and still and canter for quite a while until you get at least a small reaction when you put the leg on (don't use the leg all the time, if he is reluctant to go forwards just let him be until he relaxes enough to let you be effective with your leg)
- I think you are doing all the right things re schooling, e.g. circles, leg yielding, but it just takes time.
- my horse is happiest in a Myler bit, but everyone's horse is different. I think the main thing is to do nothing with your hand other than a steady contact until he accepts the leg and goes forward from it. Saddles are also well worth looking into as they sometimes prevent the back from coming up when the horse is working even though they look well fitting when the horse is standing. For what it's worth my horse loves the treeless, but they are certainly not everyone's cup of tea
- lunge at least 3 times a week and try specific exercises, e.g. trot in 20 m circle, the gradually decrease to 10m keeping the impulsion, then allow out again without falling on the shoulder, same as you would do ridden really but it might be easier for him to figure it out without a rider.
- hacking is great (my horse first started stretching on hacks after he had been out for a while and it took him a few more months to be able to do it in the school) but I think the main thing is patience and time.

Good luck
 
Great advice form everyone- I am writing it all down and planning to start at lunchtime with our new routine.
 
How old is he? and has he had a holiday at all? If hes young than a few weeks to a month in a field will do him no harm and he may come back stronger and more relaxed from it. All ours get holidays especially when there young. They always seem to come back stronger physically and mentally after their hols.
 
How long have you been schooling your horse and trying to achieve contact and outline?

Please don't be offended but I'm just trying to explore every avenue:-

Have you considered how you are riding him, had some lessons recently with an instructor that understands how to school a youngster on perhaps?
You can't ride a youngster like a schoolmaster and expect to achieve the same results.
Your horse may be cutting through some more adult teeth, have you had the dentist to look?
You say your saddle fits, have you had a second/third opinion?
Have you had his back checked or had to the vet to look at him?
Providing your horse is comfortable and your riding him in the right way then eventually in time it will come, sometimes it just takes time.

There is no reason why a horse should not be able to work in a natural outline once he understands what is asked of him if all the above has been checked/sorted but this takes time, longer with some horses. Nothing should be forced though. Perhaps those draw rein have caused these problems, I'm not saying this in all cases but people are all too easy to stick draw reins on for a quick fix and a short cut to transforming a horse that is unbalanced, unable to carry himself, has no muscle into a mature looking horse with an all singing all dancing outline, take them off and everything collapses in messy heap and the horse looks like a just broken 3 year old.

Start a fresh, keep your tack simple and take time to get your horse going nicely in a walk, lots of halt and walk transitions with plenty of impulsion and don't bore the socks of him. Trot and canter will come sooner than you think once you've established a correct walk, don't try any of this until you have sorted the walk. Open your hands, relax your self and give him the rein and walk on long rein for 10 minutes if you have to. Sounds like your horse is just tensing up straight away because that's what he's always done. Even if it takes you 10 minutes on a long rein to do this but then achieve a relaxed walk for at the end of it, its better than spending 20 minutes battling for an outline with a tense horse and achieving nothing.

Not sure if you can hack your horse out but perhaps like someone else said, walk him out and then do 5 minutes in the school when you get back, while your horse is warmed up and more relaxed?
 
as far as bitting is concerned, i would put him in a myler comfort snaffle 02 mouthpiece with full cheeks. dressage legal, lovely bit. with a looseish correctly fitted drop noseband. or, if he drops behind contact, the mullen version of the same bit.
then as above, really, tons of patience, tons of praise. i can't recommend anyone in your area, but as said above, you need someone used to training young horses etc.
fwiw even the trickiest ones eventually get the idea and go "oh yes, it's this dressage lark" and just let it all through.
best of luck!
 
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