Schooling Livery - Trotter breed

Earth82

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My part standardbred is currently retired due to issues I had training her. I did have a couple of trainers out but it just didn’t work out with them as my horse has specific needs. She’s a very spooky horse at times who takes her reassurance from other horses. I believe she is a 5 gaited horse due to her breed. One very experienced vet suggested she just has an unusual gait due to her breed but he did not believe there was an issue beyond this and advised she just needs her topline built up. I also posted her videos to a very experienced trainer overseas (so this is out of the question sending her to him) but I asked for his advice. He advised me that her behaviour will be deeply rooted in her natural flight instincts which could be more pronounced than in other horses. He suggested that it is possible to address these instincts but it does require a specialised approach which not all trainers are able to provide. He suggested that most trainers focus on traditional methods that might not be effective for her due to her heightened flight response. He also advised that these techniques can make it worse as she would feel misunderstood and threatened. To be honest all this is very true as the trainer I sent her away to for a few weeks just over a year ago basically used all devices on her and she came back worse than she went and very withdrawn (and certainly no better under saddle). Can anyone recommend a suitable trainer and ideally one with some experience with trotter breeds? I tried to explain to one trainer that due to her breed she struggles with tight circles but they still kept doing this and my horse was getting very upset and trying to break loose. When she has a large enough circle on the lunge she is actually very good and responsive to instructions and her ground manners are very good also. It’s under saddle she is very unpredictable and tries to throw the rider off and most often does. Due to it becoming too dangerous I have refused to let anyone attemp to ride her so she has been out of work for a good few months. A lot of tests have been done (kissing spine etc) and all came back clear. I just think she deserves a chance with the right trainer to see if she can ever can be a riding horse. I’d be grateful if anyone knows a suitable trainer ideally in the North West but under the right circumstances I’d send her further afield.
 

Gloi

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If she is gaited this is one of the best books I've read.

 

Earth82

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Hi, welcome!
I'm not in your area so can't recommend a trainer but can I ask how old she is and what work she did before you had her ?
Hello. She is aged 7. I cannot confirm what work was previously done with her as her past is unknown. The lady I got her from did not know any of her past. I think she may have been purchased at auction. All I can confirm is that she has been broken to some degree as she did let my friend ride her initially before exploding a few days later. If I had to guess I think that she has been badly broken. I do know she came from Ireland. I also believe she may have been a harness racer.
 

Earth82

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I don't think it's fair to be sending a horse to someone for training that is trying to dump the rider.

What sort of vet checks have been carried out?
I had a vet out when she first threw the rider off her. She checked her over and said the horse had a sore back and thought she may have kissing spine. She also thought she could be lame so I got her back x-rayed and also her hocks. These came back fine. We gave her a few weeks rest and got a physio out and she just advised doing some extra groundwork, long reining etc. Fast forward a few months and I got a vet physio out just to check her over again before sending her away to be schooled. I also referred her to a very experienced vet recommended by another vet and he done some checks (trotting her on hard surface, lunging her and flexion tests etc). He said it was his professional opinion that she is sound and just has an unusual gait being a trotter and also possibly having been a harness racer.

I would not send her to a trainer without declaring all of this information. Many trainers say they can combat these behaviours.
 

Earth82

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If she is gaited this is one of the best books I've read.

Thank you. I’ll have a look at that sounds interesting
 

Earth82

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May I ask why you want to send her to a trainer and not deal with her yourself?
I don’t have the skills in all honesty to go deal with any issues. She is best going to a professional who has the skills and experience to bring the best out in her. If this is not possible she still has a good home.
 

Patterdale

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May I ask why you want to send her to a trainer and not deal with her yourself?

??

What a daft and unhelpful comment.
There is absolutely no shame in seeking professional help.

OP I have a half standardbred who came from Ireland just broken in, after being a driving horse. He is fantastic, but sharp and it took me a long time to get him going well.

My advice is to find someone who has worked with trotters before, although I can’t suggest any sorry!! Maybe find some harness racing clubs and ask if they have any contacts?

If you can’t get schooling livery, I would just hack. Mine hacked on the roads for weeks when I first got him as he could be explosive on grass. Just took it slowly slowly and he’s amazing now.

They are really lovely horses, they do have a lot going for them and do deserve a chance! Good luck
 

Patterdale

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I had a vet out when she first threw the rider off her. She checked her over and said the horse had a sore back and thought she may have kissing spine. She also thought she could be lame so I got her back x-rayed and also her hocks. These came back fine. We gave her a few weeks rest and got a physio out and she just advised doing some extra groundwork, long reining etc. Fast forward a few months and I got a vet physio out just to check her over again before sending her away to be schooled. I also referred her to a very experienced vet recommended by another vet and he done some checks (trotting her on hard surface, lunging her and flexion tests etc). He said it was his professional opinion that she is sound and just has an unusual gait being a trotter and also possibly having been a harness racer.

I would not send her to a trainer without declaring all of this information. Many trainers say they can combat these behaviours.

I would think the second vet is right. I have had multiple people suggest mine is lame when they see him trying to canter. He’s not!
 

Dust Bunny

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??

What a daft and unhelpful comment.
There is absolutely no shame in seeking professional help.

OP I have a half standardbred who came from Ireland just broken in, after being a driving horse. He is fantastic, but sharp and it took me a long time to get him going well.

My advice is to find someone who has worked with trotters before, although I can’t suggest any sorry!! Maybe find some harness racing clubs and ask if they have any contacts?

If you can’t get schooling livery, I would just hack. Mine hacked on the roads for weeks when I first got him as he could be explosive on grass. Just took it slowly slowly and he’s amazing now.

They are really lovely horses, they do have a lot going for them and do deserve a chance! Good luck
I think you're reading too much between the lines. Don't get hot under the collar please.
 

Gloi

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You find a lot (most!!!) Of trainers are lost dealing with a horse that has pace. If they can get her going forward calmly in whatever order of legs she prefers then fetch her home and hack her. You can use gradients and different surfaces to help if she struggles to trot, if you want to trot that is. Don't work on circles in the early days.
 

maya2008

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I was recommended Hartsop Farm in Oxfordshire (which I know is probably too far!) for a very tricky pony - natural horsemanship based and they do a lot of handling and backing of tricky ponies/horses. I spoke to the man in charge and felt confident she would be in good hands - she then decided to allow us to work with her while we were waiting for a spot to open up so never went in the end!

I recognise the anxiety and the odd gaits - I have a cobxtrotter. Came to me with a receipt stating not suitable for children and spent the first couple of months spooking continuously at absolutely everything. I spent 4 months getting her fit out hacking (in which time we located canter - up hills only) and have just started schooling. She tries her heart out but canter is definitely a gait that doesn’t come naturally!
 

KatieDM

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Also one with a standardbred trotter x Welsh cob, who was initially broken to drive but never raced or did much, then properly backed under saddle at 4. His temperament is great, can lack confidence but has faced all kinds of traffic and vehicles and done very well so far. Definitely thinking ahead now about fine tuning things. He’s got walk, trot, a super fast trot, canter. Like he has gears :) Trying to unlock the walk/trot straight into canter without the weird fast pace! We do a lot of hacking, as the school is small, but try to work on bits when we’re out and about in the woods. Luckily got a good long canter track. He does seem a bit weaker/underdeveloped compared to some at his age/stage. Working on that with vet physio etc.

Sorry, I realise none of this is helpful, but just wanted to concur with the gaits and say I know how tricky it can be… Good luck! Maybe we need a Trotter thread :)
 

Earth82

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??

What a daft and unhelpful comment.
There is absolutely no shame in seeking professional help.

OP I have a half standardbred who came from Ireland just broken in, after being a driving horse. He is fantastic, but sharp and it took me a long time to get him going well.

My advice is to find someone who has worked with trotters before, although I can’t suggest any sorry!! Maybe find some harness racing clubs and ask if they have any contacts?

If you can’t get schooling livery, I would just hack. Mine hacked on the roads for weeks when I first got him as he could be explosive on grass. Just took it slowly slowly and he’s amazing now.

They are really lovely horses, they do have a lot going for them and do deserve a chance! Good luck
Thank you. Your Standardbreds behaviours sound very much like some of the behaviours mine displays (sharp and explosive). On the ground she is the most beautifully natured horse, with a cheeky side but she is such a gentle mare. I’ll contact some harness racing clubs as suggested and see if they can offer any advice on trainers.
 

Earth82

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Also one with a standardbred trotter x Welsh cob, who was initially broken to drive but never raced or did much, then properly backed under saddle at 4. His temperament is great, can lack confidence but has faced all kinds of traffic and vehicles and done very well so far. Definitely thinking ahead now about fine tuning things. He’s got walk, trot, a super fast trot, canter. Like he has gears :) Trying to unlock the walk/trot straight into canter without the weird fast pace! We do a lot of hacking, as the school is small, but try to work on bits when we’re out and about in the woods. Luckily got a good long canter track. He does seem a bit weaker/underdeveloped compared to some at his age/stage. Working on that with vet physio etc.

Sorry, I realise none of this is helpful, but just wanted to concur with the gaits and say I know how tricky it can be… Good luck! Maybe we need a Trotter thread :)
Unfortunately there isn’t much hacking where I am in the UK, but I think I’ll keep her further away so this can be an option. She does spook very easily so I am not ready to take her on the roads for the safety of the both of us and others too. I’ll have to try get her under saddle again first (she’s not been ridden for a long time) due to trying to throw the rider off. I will see if I can find a trainer experienced in trotters to try get her started again. I agree we could do with a Trotter thread and Trotter trainers : )
 

Earth82

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Also one with a standardbred trotter x Welsh cob, who was initially broken to drive but never raced or did much, then properly backed under saddle at 4. His temperament is great, can lack confidence but has faced all kinds of traffic and vehicles and done very well so far. Definitely thinking ahead now about fine tuning things. He’s got walk, trot, a super fast trot, canter. Like he has gears :) Trying to unlock the walk/trot straight into canter without the weird fast pace! We do a lot of hacking, as the school is small, but try to work on bits when we’re out and about in the woods. Luckily got a good long canter track. He does seem a bit weaker/underdeveloped compared to some at his age/stage. Working on that with vet physio etc.

Sorry, I realise none of this is helpful, but just wanted to concur with the gaits and say I know how tricky it can be… Good luck! Maybe we need a Trotter thread :)
I follow a lady in Australia who trains ex racer Standardbreds and she is brilliant. She suggests certain training methods etc. A lot of trainers do not understand that Standardbreds that have been harness racers spook easily because they’ve constantly worn blinkers and they struggle with circles because they’ve raced straight. They physically find it difficult. They also struggle with the bit in their mouth as they use something different for harness racing. We are basically changing everything they’ve learnt from a youngster. This lady has has great results but she is extremely experienced so probably makes it look easier than it is. My mare has a super fast trot too - I think I read their trot can touch speeds of 25 / 30 mph, I’d be knackered in the rising trot 😂
 
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