schooling over fences.. FAO racing/jockey people

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MissDeMeena

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I seem to be doing alot of this lately, and on some seriously smart horses (poss. Gold Cup 2009 runners).

As some of you may know, i'm more of an 'event' rider, i've evented up to CCI** level (pretty big).. So i've done alot of jumping in my time.. i've been working in racing yards, flat and NH, for 6yrs..
I've schooled over hurdles loads of times, and it generally goes pretty well!! i hardly ever 'miss' and am fine riding at race speed into hurdles..
I'm now doing more and more schooling over fences (full size) i've prob. done it 4 or 5 times.. and while nothing has gone wrong.. i don't feel as confident as i do schooling over the hurdles or eventing (where the fences are usually bigger than your average chase fence)...

So, my question is this.. i can school over hurdles at speed.. and i'm more than happy jumping 2* sized XC fences.. just after some help with the chase fences!!!???
 
What exactly are you having problems with?
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not exactly sure.. i know everyone jumps on people when they say this, but seeing a stride!! please don't tell me not to see one, as i can't help it, and i usually see a bloody good stride into hurdles, XC fences and SJing...
I guess i'm scaring myself sh!tless seeing what i feel is too long a strides (which i don't do into hurdles)..
one of them today stood off outside the wings!! i don't want that to happen too often
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I can't begin to suggest options for 'chasing, since we don't even have it where I come from, but I can see two possible "issues" for thought.

One, is the correct distance for the work you're doing at this point different than what you're used to? My guess would be what is "workably long" for 'chasing is "scary long" by eventing standards, just because of the shape of the arc, the construction of the fence etc. Which mean you could be just fine and just need practice to feel comfortable with the new questions or that you are looking for something fundamentally incorrect for the job. Obviously someone watching could be more help sorting out which.

What do the people you're riding with say? What do the horses say? Presumably many of the horses you're working with have at least some experience at that level, or at least some training from more experienced teachers. Are they comfortable with your ride? Are the horses worried or are you just worried about them? Again, what do your peers say? Are you making them nervous? It's quite possible all you are feeling is the pressure to excel at something unfamiliar, which is always scary.

It is quite possible that's all it is - the anxiety of the unfamiliar.

Is it a risk concern? Do you feel that your skills aren't sufficient? ARE your skills insufficient? My guess would be they are not otherwise you would not be getting this opportunity. Is there a specific skill you feel is not working for you? Is it an issue of stride length, the feel of the horse in your hand? Could you ask to have a school on a very experienced 'chaser, just to get a little more feel of what is correct? (You may have done that but maybe a refresher is in order.)

Are you worried about hurting yourself? I know that's a question horsemen aren't supposed to ask but I really feel that's part of the problem. Holding something unpleasant up to the cold light of day often makes it lose some of its power and I think some people get worried because they think they are the only people to have every felt a moment of "I don't like this." But facing that concern and rationalising it is sometimes necessary, especially as one gets older and more aware of risk. After all you wouldn't be doing this job - or any other of the things you've done - if you were a naturally nervous person. So there's a risk involved. So what? You knew that. You've taken risks before. So maybe you just have to accept how you feel, put it in a box, and get on with the job. That's not the same as denying it, it's saying "yes, this is nerve wracking but I WANT to do it, I CAN do it, and I WILL do it".

Sorry, just my thoughts . . .
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I can actually fully sympathise with you on that one! Scares me too sometimes.
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I think learning to SJ or XC before learning to jump racehorses puts us at a disadvantage here. You have to remember though that because you're going at speed the take off point will be further away than it would be SJ and XC, or hurdles as they're lower.
All I can say is though, if the trainer you're working for lets you continue to school his Gold Cup hopes you can't be doing too much wrong!
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Are these young horses you're schooling or more experienced ones?
 
TB hurdlers see a stride miles from the fence!

My boy see's a stride so early at speed that he takes off before the wings and then sails in the air for what seems an eternity and then we land miles from the fence!

It is totally different to show jumping and eventing as of course we are galloping rather that approaching in a controlled manner similar to sj!

I would not worry-just hold on to the buckle and you will be fine!
 
I've no personal experience but listening to Rosie and her Dad re point to pointing, they definitely look for a stride and if it goes wrong it's usually when they've asked for an extra long one when the horse is tired (or possibly simply not good enough). The jumps you are doing are huge and the horses you are riding are clearly more than good enough. Keep at it and I reckon you'll be wondering why you asked this question in a few weeks time! Enjoy
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Wow, that was a long well thought out and pretty deep reply
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Alot of points ring true, but this one i think hits the nail on the head

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It's quite possible all you are feeling is the pressure to excel at something unfamiliar, which is always scary.

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I can actually fully sympathise with you on that one! Scares me too sometimes.
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I think learning to SJ or XC before learning to jump racehorses puts us at a disadvantage here. You have to remember though that because you're going at speed the take off point will be further away than it would be SJ and XC, or hurdles as they're lower.
All I can say is though, if the trainer you're working for lets you continue to school his Gold Cup hopes you can't be doing too much wrong!
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Are these young horses you're schooling or more experienced ones?

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Also think this sounds pretty spot on.. ie take-off point being further away.. as i came into one, on what i thought was a pretty spot on stride, only to hear us clout the board of the open ditch pretty hard (ie we must of gotten too close)..
And that being an eventer i'm used to wanting things more perfect all the time.

No, most of them are young/inexperienced horses, as they don't really school the older ones that much, maybe once before they run!! obviously they're not all Gold Cup hopes, and the one that is will be kept under wraps this season. But they are much nicer horses than i'm used to riding in the other yards (none of them are rated under 100, where as in the other yards, only one of them managed to make it to 100)
 
foraday, you don't generally want hurdlers to jump like that though, as being in the air for too long actually loses time. Of course they need to be able to go on a long one, but ideally a hurdler will just skip over and hardly feel like they've left the ground.
 
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I can actually fully sympathise with you on that one! Scares me too sometimes.
blush.gif
I think learning to SJ or XC before learning to jump racehorses puts us at a disadvantage here. You have to remember though that because you're going at speed the take off point will be further away than it would be SJ and XC, or hurdles as they're lower.
All I can say is though, if the trainer you're working for lets you continue to school his Gold Cup hopes you can't be doing too much wrong!
grin.gif

Are these young horses you're schooling or more experienced ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also think this sounds pretty spot on.. ie take-off point being further away.. as i came into one, on what i thought was a pretty spot on stride, only to hear us clout the board of the open ditch pretty hard (ie we must of gotten too close)..
And that being an eventer i'm used to wanting things more perfect all the time.

No, most of them are young/inexperienced horses, as they don't really school the older ones that much, maybe once before they run!! obviously they're not all Gold Cup hopes, and the one that is will be kept under wraps this season. But they are much nicer horses than i'm used to riding in the other yards (none of them are rated under 100, where as in the other yards, only one of them managed to make it to 100)

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Sorry, no help here. Just wanted to ask what the rating means. How is it worked out?
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The rating gives you a rough idea how good a horse is. It is determined by where the horse finishes in it's races, by how far it was beaten by which horse, or how far it beat other horses by, but also by how other horses it raced against ran in their races. Also a whole lot of other factors come into it.
The rating also determines which races a horse can be entered in, for example some races are for horses rated 0-90, so a higher rated horse can't be entered.
It also determines the weight the horse has to carry.
I think that's roughly it, hope I didn't confuse you to much.
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It's a whole lot complicated tbh, and if anyone wants to add to or correct anything I said, please do.
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[ QUOTE ]
The rating gives you a rough idea how good a horse is. It is determined by where the horse finishes in it's races, by how far it was beaten by which horse, or how far it beat other horses by, but also by how other horses it raced against ran in their races. Also a whole lot of other factors come into it.
The rating also determines which races a horse can be entered in, for example some races are for horses rated 0-90, so a higher rated horse can't be entered.
It also determines the weight the horse has to carry.
I think that's roughly it, hope I didn't confuse you to much.
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It's a whole lot complicated tbh, and if anyone wants to add to or correct anything I said, please do.
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Thanks! That makes perfect sense to me
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I don't know a lot about racing TBH
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Most yards only alow the jocs, apart from the times i school the greener horses over the hurdles... but this yard is different, they wont have a jockey on the place, as they don't want to be tied down to one.. ie so and so schooled that horse, therefore he should ride it in the races.. they like to be able to put whoever they want on the horse on the day.. hence me doing all the schooling..
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I'm hoping it isn't going to [****]-up my SJing !!
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i know plenty of jockeys who p-2-p well, and still event to a high standard well enough... Rosie being one
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am sure i'll be fine.. after all, i SJ the racehorses too!! (ie out of a SJing canter in an arean over SJs.. yes they have to do it all
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)
 
Deffo won't mess up your SJing (Rosie does that pretty successfully too) as you're clearly too good a rider. You'll be all the more fearless against the clock and the spreads will look like nothing after those huge jumps
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Have a friend who in his time was a very good p2p jockey commenting on another friend a average p2p jockey say that the average ones problems was that he used to try and see a stride and would alter the horse if it was wrong and thus end up crashing a lot of the time. He said the best thing was to sit and wait let it come to you which you would do eventing over a big spread.
 
Don't try and see a stride, let the fence come to you. 99.9% of horses do actually want to get to the other side, so just keep squeezing to give them the confidence to make their own decisions. There isnt really much difference between hurdles and fences, so just ride at them the same.
I wouldn't worry about it affecting your proper riding, I know a few event riders who have schooled plenty - they have all said it sharpened them up no end.
 
As I've said before - I don't actually know what I'm talking about
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. I'm sure vicicjp and lec do though so take their advice MDM. Glad they agree it won't spoil the way you ride in the other disciplines.
Will these people let you have a bash at actual racing do you think? Would you like to?
 
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