Schooling to correct a long flat canter stride

[spacie1977]

My horse has a very long flat canter stride, and can't seem to be able to adjust his stride going into jumps. He tends to hollow and stretch his neck out to tank along at an uncontrollable speed when I ask him to canter. Does anyone have any suggestions on schooling techniques I can use to improve his canter?
My instructor suggested going through a line of four canter poles to encourage him to pick up his feet and collect more. But he's very tall so it's difficult to keep getting on and off to adjust the poles every time he's kicked them out of place. I've tried lunging him over poles but he's so lazy to canter on the lunge I end up shattered just trying to get him to pick the canter up. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
It's also been suggested I consider changeing bits when I'm jumping him in canter as he's quite strong and isn't listening to my seat to slow/stop when jumping. He'll just tank into a jump at a flat fast canter, then pop the last canter pole and jump all in one as he can't adjust his stride when he approaches the jump. Fortunately he has a very scopey jump so launching 6 foot from the jump doesn't cause an issue, but it's a habit I need to break! I'm thinking it might be an idea to switch his NS Verbidend to a sweet iron gag with scrub board until I've sorted his canter out. I'd rather not give in by sticking a strong bit in his mouth but he's such a big long and strong horse he's difficult to hold together. Any thoughts on the bit and schooling ideas to help would be much appreciated.

 

[be positive]

It sounds as if the canter is not established and when you start jumping what little you do have gets lost on the way to the fence. I would not be jumping this horse out of canter, use placing poles but trot in so he learns to wait and not jump the pole as well, he may be getting away with it due to his scope but it is not teaching him properly and at some point he may not make it, plenty of trotting into well set up grids will help the jump and also the canter.
As he obviously does not respect poles on the ground I cannot see that they are going to be a help, with him kicking them out of the way they will be counter productive, not helping the canter or his jumping.

On the flat I would be using transitions to canter from walk and back to walk from canter to help get him engaged and waiting using his engine rather than shoulders and neck, lots of leg yielding in trot to canter, leg yield in canter then back to trot so he is unable to get away from you through the transitions, spirals in the canter, in and out, keep the canter periods short but do far more work in the canter, if you plan on jumping he really has to canter well, the trot does not have to be so good but without a decent canter that you can adjust he will struggle to jump correctly and go on to jump technical courses where adjustability is important.

I would also suggest finding a good SJ trainer who can really help and should have more ideas of what your horse requires at this stage, putting a stronger bit on may help with control but not really with solving the problem.

 

[spacie1977]

It sounds as if the canter is not established and when you start jumping what little you do have gets lost on the way to the fence

Thanks Bepositive, I agree with this, his canter isn't established at all. He's much greener than I thought he was when I bought him. He's easy to get ino canter whilst hacking but tries every trick possible to avoid it in the school. I.e. Walk to canter to walk transitions are still a no go for us.
He had been going reasonably well with his jumping, and finding his own pace fine, but I hadn't jumped for a few months. I then had a jumping lesson last week and he felt like a bull dozer without brakes. Maybe it was down to excitement as it's been so long since he's jumped. But yes he does need a lot on his canter before jumping again. Hence why I'm asking for schooling ideas.

putting a stronger bit on may help with control but not really with solving the problem.

I totally agree with this too. It irritates me when I hear people suggest putting in a strong bit will solve everything. I think a well schooled horse should be able to go nicely in a snaffle whatever their size. I'm just considering a stronger bit to help with the leaning, hollowing and bombing off as a temporary measure until he's responding better to what he's being asked of. I borrowed a ported kimblewick for a couple hacks and he was a different horse to canter. He felt lovely and round, light in my hands and stopped when asked. Do you think I should try him with that again whilst schooling?

 

[Mike007]

Your flat work is lacking or your horse has a back problem . Forget about jumping till you find out what is going on.

 

[DiNozzo]

I'd be doing really short canters- into canter stride or two, out of canter, and then build it up as he can maintain a nicer canter for longer.
What happens when you ask for canter from leg yield? That should make it easier for him to sit behind.
Also, you say he's hollowing, so he probably isn't bending properly. Check that you aren't collapsing to either side (usually the inside!) and making it too hard for him. Open your inside hand and encourage him to look the way he's going, use your outside rein to keep him next the fence, and your inside leg on the girth to maintain impulsion and keep him straight.
Make sure that your sitting up tall and not collapsing through your stomach- you need to be sitting tall to half halt effectively which you need to do probably every stride at the same time as giving a forwards aid.
Once the canter itself is stronger, I'd introduce poles and beg someone to help you! Poles are a great way of maintaining rhythm and balance- but only when the horse is strong enough.
I don't have an issue with bits being changed if its still needed after the schooling, because it doesn't sound as if he's being bad, just that he's not very strong in himself yet.

 

[smja]

Either it's a physical issue making him find canter difficult, or he's not really on your aids at all. You've said he canters well when out - does he actually know the canter aids, or does he just fall into it/go faster in open space etc.?

If he knows the aids, and it's not a physical issue, then you need to do some work on sharpening him up. This doesn't have to be in canter initially; get him really off your leg in walk/trot before trying canter, and make sure you don't fall into the trap of nagging until he falls into canter. Lots of transitions - between and within the paces - would be useful.

 

[stilltrying]

I read this with interest as in a lot of ways you described the way my horse used to jump (and to a certain extent still does!). He is a tall, long horse, with a huge stride who is not naturally uphill and would always stand off / over jump his fences and hollow if I tried to steady him on approach. A short and bouncy canter is not his natural way of going and although we don’t do much jumping these days, having improved our flatwork immensely I’m sure that jumping would come a lot easier.

We’ve had some conflicting advice over the years from various instructors, so assuming it is not a pain issue but just his way of going, I’ve found the following helpful:

Plenty of transitions, exercises like 5 strides trot, 5 strides walk, 4 strides trot, 4 strides walk…spiralling down etc. Walk to canter trans. Also introducing counter canter.

Bitting….the thing that has helped the most with his canter was switching to a pelham to school. He would rely on my hand too heavily in canter and as he is big and I’m small in comparison, he’d just pull me forwards and canter would just feel so downhill and out of control. So I started flat schooling in a Pelham, what a difference that made to the canter. He had to sit and use himself as was uncomfortable for him to pull me forwards in the pelham. Following a recent ‘episode’ I wont jump him in the Pelham as he objects to it hugely, however for flatwork it was really useful. As he got stronger, he found canter easier and whilst we aren’t exactly bouncy ball canter, it is totally different even in his snaffle. I’m not sure how old yours is, but mine was probably 10 before we got to grips with it.

Jumping from trot, particularly grids with trot poles to keep in trot, then allowing the canter over the grid.

What did not work:

Canter poles are a nightmare as he wont adjust a stride and ends up standing on them / straddling them and getting in a right pickle.

Bounce fences are a no go, he’s got so far into a grid before now and jumped 2 fences in one! Much easier than putting down in between apparently!

 

[daydreamer]

I started riding a new share horse a couple of months ago with a very weak canter. My instructor got me to do canter-trot-canter trans on a 20 m circle cantering each time for just a few strides. I had to have my schooling whip in the outside and use it gently when I asked for canter to encourage activity in the outside hind. We then did a serpentine with a simple change across each centre line - I thought it would be impossible but surprisingly we could do it and it really helped him to sit and shorten the canter in the turns.

I have also been doing an exercise where you do a 10m(ish) circle in trot somewhere in the middle of the school, then walk and do a half 5 m circle outwards so you change the rein, pick up trot and canter straight away. This does always seem to give a good canter (in fact the other day one canter felt so different I was genuinely puzzled until I decided it was just balanced for a change!).

Sometimes I also walk a 20m ish circle then do turn about the forehand (we try to do it with bend around the leg the horses' hind end is stepping towards if that makes sense) to change direction then trot and canter asap - also often seems to give a more balanced canter.

 

[Cortez]

Walk to canter upwards transitions (never mind about the downwards for a while), canter 5 strides, trot 20, and repeat,.................endlessly.

 

[Tnavas]

First get his back checked out. From your description, flat, hollow knocks the poles he may be having physical problems lifting the legs to clear the poles.

Then back to flat schooling. Countless circles, loops and serpentines, changes of rein to increase lateral suppleness. Transition within and between paces to improve his balance.

As someone else said jump out of trot until he listens to you.

 

[Anna*]

Just found this thread as I'm having the same problem with my mare at the moment - just wondering how you were getting on?

 

[mudmonkey17]

I found that if go down long side in trot in shoulder in then pick up canter and curve across the school it really helps the canter

 

[ajn1610]

Some things that may help,
ask for your transition on a circle/demi volte as you come back towards the arena fence line, having that in their sight line tends to make for a steadier transition as it acts as a bit of a mental block.
Strike off from leg yield/shoulder in put them in a better position.
Slow everything down, horses that launch and go out and down are out of balance, a leg aid should make them lighter in front as they take the weight back and lift when they are in correct balance. You can establish this in a very slow walk and trot so he builds the correct muscles and way of going to carry him in canter. Use you core and seat not your hand to slow him and keep a still soft 'alive' hand by massaging your fingers as if you were squeezing water from a sponge, on every marker walk a 10m circle asking for soft but up flexion and keeping the hind legs coming through with an inside leg aid. You should feel him move into a soft but more upright frame. You can then add in some leg yield from 3/4 line to track at B/E followed by another 10 m circle then continue down the long side in shoulder in.
Bin off the trotting poles and invest in some caveletti (sp?), telegraph poles or square fence posts which are heavy won't roll and are hard for him to shift but that's pretty hard work for him so don't over use them.
Mine's going through a similar phase and this is what I've found helps. It's a developmental thing and it'll get there, personally I'd leave the jumping in canter until he's a bit more established.

 

[old hand]

Big scopy horses often react like this when asked to go forward and jump before balance is truly established. I first work on a very good walk, shorten and lengthen and ensure you ride to the hand from the seat and leg, if he pulls or hollows halt with your seat and back by riding into a hand that does not allow him to go forwards. Do hundreds of transitions until it is second nature - doesn't actually take that long. then do the same in trot, trot - walk - trot and work up to shoulder in. once shoulder in is established and again, ensure that you are riding from the leg, I agree that you should ride a small canter circle from the shoulder in, a few strides will do to start with, building up to about a ten metre circle. This will transfer the centre of gravity backwards onto the quarters and your problem will disappear. Take as long as it takes and you will have a horse for life. The jumping will improve as the horse sits on its quarters and lengthening will come easily. Do as much of this without stirrups as you dare starting just with the walk , your core will improve and thus the horse will improve. Good luck.