Science Supplements Gut Balancer change in ingredients etc

Fruitcake

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Opened a new tub and noticed that it looked different. (More powdery than grainy). Noticed it now says, “One month supply” instead of, “Two month supply.” Looked at back of tub more closely and recommended feeding amounts are now doubled and ingredients seem to have changed. Am just a bit miffed that they’ve changed it without making it clear. Price is the same for, what is effectively, now half!
 

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There were a few posts on the SS Facebook page asking exactly the same things about the change. It did take a while to get a reply and a few attempts to get an answer for the actual question!

If you're not on Facebook to see the posts then maybe pm Scarlett on here. She was in contact with them about the exact same issue so will have some more info.
 

Fruitcake

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There were a few posts on the SS Facebook page asking exactly the same things about the change. It did take a while to get a reply and a few attempts to get an answer for the actual question!

If you're not on Facebook to see the posts then maybe pm Scarlett on here. She was in contact with them about the exact same issue so will have some more info.

Thanks. I’m not in the SS group. (Didn’t know there was one) but will have a look.
 

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Ellietotz

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This is interesting. I am sure there is a reason behind it. Have you contacted David Marlin directly? He's extremely helpful and will likely have the answer you are looking for.
 

Fruitcake

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This is interesting. I am sure there is a reason behind it. Have you contacted David Marlin directly? He's extremely helpful and will likely have the answer you are looking for.
According to the info they’ve given on their Facebook page, in response to questions, it is a new and improved formula. It doesn’t change the fact that they’ve more than doubled the recommended daily dose and kept the price the same though. 😠 Not to mention that there was no clear labelling about the change and I could well have been under-dosing my horse by continuing to use it as I had been for the past two years.

Apparently, the recommended daily dose of the original active ingredient (live yeast) has remained the same. When someone asked what the rest of the dose was now made up of, they replied to say they had added in FOS. They’ve then published a pretty graph comparing the amount of pro and pre biotics in the recommended maintenance dose of various brands of gut balancers. This graph shows the SS Balancer with very tall columns! Someone questioned this as it doesn’t appear to compare like for like (ie gram for gram) and their recommended maintenance amount is five times that of some of the other brands so it’s comparing 10g of one product with 50g of theirs and stands to reason that it will contain more. The poster’s comments, however, seem to have been deleted! I’m now very confused!

I’m also a little disappointed as David Marlin is always posting things on his Facebook page about companies who give confusing / misleading info about the content of active ingredients. This could be interpreted as doing just that!

I’m very loyal to SS. I like the proper research and science their products are based on and use lots of their products. I’m feeling a bit disappointed by this though. :(
 

Vicky_M_SS

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Hi Fiona,
I’m sorry to read your concerns. Hopefully I can try and explain the formulation change a bit better.
As you know, we are constantly running trails and research into both new products and also if we can improve existing ones. Gut Balancer already won the innovation award when it was launched but after further studies we conducted in horses with hindgut problems we made the decision to improve the formulation. This has meant we have increased the pre biotic levels (by x 15) and also included an additional pre biotic. The price has also been reduced to reflect the tub now being a one month supply. The pro biotic levels remain the same and are the highest levels in any Gut Balancer available.
The graph you refer to compares what each brand publishes the rate at which they tell you to feed their product. This is the amount your horse will actually get. In the case of Protexin, they say to feed 10g.
So they base their price and size of tub on this. When compared to the levels in our feeding rate, we are significantly higher.
The only way to accurately compare is by looking at how much active ingredient is in the product and how much each brand tells you to feed as this is the amount your horse will actually receive. If you read the graph we make that clear and it is the only way to accurately compare.
For example, you would need to feed almost 10 times the amount Protexin for you to achieve the same level or the other way to look at it is if we fed at the same rate of Protexin, our tub would last you 150 days!
Look at it a different way, you wouldn’t buy a product and not feed to the rate you are being instructed to as it would be pointless.
It would be like you going to the doctor and not taking the medicine as prescribed.
Whatever way you look at it, it’s higher in actives and cheaper on price.
We know product labels can be confusing especially when levels of active ingredients are not on some brands labels but we try our best to give customers a clear guide to try and see through the smoke and mirrors.
I apologise if the formulation change wasn’t made clearer to you but rest assured you have a better product and by far the best available in the UK.
Please do get in touch with us directly via phone or email if you have any further questions we are more than happy to talk through anything.
I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Vicky Mitson - Science Supplements.
 

Scarlett

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There were a few posts on the SS Facebook page asking exactly the same things about the change. It did take a while to get a reply and a few attempts to get an answer for the actual question!

If you're not on Facebook to see the posts then maybe pm Scarlett on here. She was in contact with them about the exact same issue so will have some more info.


The ingredients have changed and SS do say they have improved the formula, however the feeding rate has increased to match.

Re the price - SS themselves have changed the rrp and a 1.5kg tub should be £34.99. Unfortunately a lot of their stockists don't seem to know this and most are still charging approx. £42 (which was the cost of the previous 1.3kg tub of the old formula)

I bought one from ebay hoping it was the old version, and paid £42, however the new tub turned up and I am chasing the shop for a refund of £7 for the difference.
 
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Scarlett

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According to the info they’ve given on their Facebook page, in response to questions, it is a new and improved formula. It doesn’t change the fact that they’ve more than doubled the recommended daily dose and kept the price the same though. 😠 Not to mention that there was no clear labelling about the change and I could well have been under-dosing my horse by continuing to use it as I had been for the past two years.

Apparently, the recommended daily dose of the original active ingredient (live yeast) has remained the same. When someone asked what the rest of the dose was now made up of, they replied to say they had added in FOS. They’ve then published a pretty graph comparing the amount of pro and pre biotics in the recommended maintenance dose of various brands of gut balancers. This graph shows the SS Balancer with very tall columns! Someone questioned this as it doesn’t appear to compare like for like (ie gram for gram) and their recommended maintenance amount is five times that of some of the other brands so it’s comparing 10g of one product with 50g of theirs and stands to reason that it will contain more. The poster’s comments, however, seem to have been deleted! I’m now very confused!

I’m also a little disappointed as David Marlin is always posting things on his Facebook page about companies who give confusing / misleading info about the content of active ingredients. This could be interpreted as doing just that!

I’m very loyal to SS. I like the proper research and science their products are based on and use lots of their products. I’m feeling a bit disappointed by this though. :(

Yup, 100% absolutely agree. I've had great success with this product as it was but the feeling of smoke and mirrors surrounding the new formula has annoyed me no end. I'm now only feeding a 2/3 dose of the new formula to one horse rather than full dose to two horses. The cost has gone up from £21 per month to £35 which is a lot when I want to feed 2/3 horses on it so I'm afraid they are loosing my custom once I can find a suitable alternative.
 
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Vicky_M_SS

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Yup, 100% absolutely agree. I've had great success with this product as it was but the feeling of smoke and mirrors surrounding the new formula has annoyed me no end. I'm now only feeding a 2/3 dose of the new formula to one horse rather than full dose to two horses. The cost has gone up from £21 per month to £35 which is a lot when I want to feed 2/3 horses on it so I'm afraid they are loosing my custom once I can find a suitable alternative.
Hi Scarlett,
I'm really sorry to hear you're not happy with how we communicated the improved formula. We did write to all stockists and also update our social media pages. The original formula will still be available in a pouch and this will be available to buy shortly. For all existing customers we are more than happy to give you the new formula at the same pro rated price until the pouches are ready to purchase. Please email info@sciencesupplements.co.uk and mark it to my attention and I'm happy to arrange this for you.
We do take on board all comments regarding how we communicated the change. It was certainly not our intention to cause confusion as we want to shout from the rooftops how good the product is, not confuse people.
Vicky Mitson - Science Supplements.
 

Fruitcake

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Yup, 100% absolutely agree. I've had great success with this product as it was but the feeling of smoke and mirrors surrounding the new formula has annoyed me no end. I'm now only feeding a 2/3 dose of the new formula to one horse rather than full dose to two horses. The cost has gone up from £21 per month to £35 which is a lot when I want to feed 2/3 horses on it so I'm afraid they are loosing my custom once I can find a suitable alternative.
This is exactly the way I feel. I could’ve written this post myself!
It’s what feels like deliberate confusion on behalf of the company that has disappointed me. The irony of this situation is that this approach is exactly what David Marlin is always criticising in others- smoke and mirrors and the use of deliberately confusing data to sell a product. It’s a shame as I’m sure the product is still quality without this.

I am doing exactly what you’re doing, Scarlett: I’m dosing at 2/3 the recommended amount while I research a viable alternative as I’ve lost faith in SS which is sad.
 

Fruitcake

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Hi Fiona,
I’m sorry to read your concerns. Hopefully I can try and explain the formulation change a bit better.
As you know, we are constantly running trails and research into both new products and also if we can improve existing ones. Gut Balancer already won the innovation award when it was launched but after further studies we conducted in horses with hindgut problems we made the decision to improve the formulation. This has meant we have increased the pre biotic levels (by x 15) and also included an additional pre biotic. The price has also been reduced to reflect the tub now being a one month supply. The pro biotic levels remain the same and are the highest levels in any Gut Balancer available.
The graph you refer to compares what each brand publishes the rate at which they tell you to feed their product. This is the amount your horse will actually get. In the case of Protexin, they say to feed 10g.
So they base their price and size of tub on this. When compared to the levels in our feeding rate, we are significantly higher.
The only way to accurately compare is by looking at how much active ingredient is in the product and how much each brand tells you to feed as this is the amount your horse will actually receive. If you read the graph we make that clear and it is the only way to accurately compare.
For example, you would need to feed almost 10 times the amount Protexin for you to achieve the same level or the other way to look at it is if we fed at the same rate of Protexin, our tub would last you 150 days!
Look at it a different way, you wouldn’t buy a product and not feed to the rate you are being instructed to as it would be pointless.
It would be like you going to the doctor and not taking the medicine as prescribed.
Whatever way you look at it, it’s higher in actives and cheaper on price.
We know product labels can be confusing especially when levels of active ingredients are not on some brands labels but we try our best to give customers a clear guide to try and see through the smoke and mirrors.
I apologise if the formulation change wasn’t made clearer to you but rest assured you have a better product and by far the best available in the UK.
Please do get in touch with us directly via phone or email if you have any further questions we are more than happy to talk through anything.
I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Vicky Mitson - Science Supplements.
Thanks for the reply, Vicky.
I’m sure the product is still excellent quality; I have no concerns about that. It’s the way the company have gone about the change that I’m disappointed with.

if this change is such a positive move, I do wonder why the new formulation wasn’t made clearer. A nice, big shiny star reading, “New, improved formulation” or something similar tends to be the norm and would certainly have drawn my attention to the fact that the product had changed and I may need to check the dosing levels. As it was, had I not been observant enough to notice the variation in the feel of the grains, I could have been underdosing my gastro-sensitive horse for a long period of time! The cynic in me suspects that there may have been a conscious decision not to draw existing customers’ attention to the change due to the price increase.

I understand that the new product has, apparently, been reduced in price. (I add that I am still paying the old price for mine so, perhaps, it would be prudent to make the change clear to suppliers. Indeed, a very large online retailer is still listing the old product details and price). This reduction, however, doesn’t really reflect the dosing change. In fact, it reflects a 75% increase! (£1.17 a day as opposed to the old 67p). The I increase in weight of the tub, linked with the decrease in price seems to point towards better value until you do the maths. (More smoke and mirrors?)

I do believe that the product will be excellent quality, based on sound scientific research. I just feel a little misled by the approach taken with the change in formulation.
 

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I don't use the supplement, but yesterday was interested enough to go and browse the FB to have a look at the pretty graph. It was confusing, and to me I would be interested to see the levels at a £1 amount, so that way it really is comparing like for like.

I do wonder it the SS formula would be quite so skyscraper-esque in the chart if the amounts were shown in per £1.

I also disagree that people always feed at the level suggested. My horse is on a good quality feed (Agrobs) where they say she would not need additional supplementation, yet because she is barefoot I give Progressive Earth Pro Feet at about 1/3 the recommended dose.

I don't see that as pointless as SS suggests, it is just making sure my bases are covered without going overboard. I would respectfully suggest that every horse's optimum requirement would be different depending on a myriad of discrete differences in horse make-up and keep conditions.

I did note that in response to a question SS stated that for there is not an official recommended dose for the ingredient someone was asking for from an independent source anyway, so who is to say that their suggested dose is correct, or the other company's dose is correct?

If a person has discovered that their horse is best with X amount of X ingredient then surely it would make sense to do the chart showing that for £1 you get that? The product is expensive, so cost is an important factor.
 

Vicky_M_SS

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Hi Fiona,
Yes it's unfortunate there's been this confusion. We issued a number of press releases (it's also been in the trade news this month), we promoted the new formulation heavily via our own social media and we did write to all stockists but it would appear some have not updated their information as yet which we will follow up ASAP.
As I mentioned in the previous post, we will still be offering the original Gut Balancer in a pouch version for those wishing to use that. The new formulation is far and away the best out there and we most certainly do not want to confuse customers as we want and encourage people to compare active ingredient levels hence why we produce the graphs which are 100% accurate and taken from other brands product labels.
As I mentioned to Scarlett, drop me an email to my attention info@sciencesupplements.co.uk and I'm more than happy to ensure you are not disadvantaged by this.
Please be assured, there's no "smoke and mirrors" just clearly what we have tried to communicate hasn't happened as well as it should and I can only apologise for that.
Vicky
 

Vicky_M_SS

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Thanks for the reply, Vicky.
I’m sure the product is still excellent quality; I have no concerns about that. It’s the way the company have gone about the change that I’m disappointed with.

if this change is such a positive move, I do wonder why the new formulation wasn’t made clearer. A nice, big shiny star reading, “New, improved formulation” or something similar tends to be the norm and would certainly have drawn my attention to the fact that the product had changed and I may need to check the dosing levels. As it was, had I not been observant enough to notice the variation in the feel of the grains, I could have been underdosing my gastro-sensitive horse for a long period of time! The cynic in me suspects that there may have been a conscious decision not to draw existing customers’ attention to the change due to the price increase.

I understand that the new product has, apparently, been reduced in price. (I add that I am still paying the old price for mine so, perhaps, it would be prudent to make the change clear to suppliers. Indeed, a very large online retailer is still listing the old product details and price). This reduction, however, doesn’t really reflect the dosing change. In fact, it reflects a 75% increase! (£1.17 a day as opposed to the old 67p). The I increase in weight of the tub, linked with the decrease in price seems to point towards better value until you do the maths. (More smoke and mirrors?)

I do believe that the product will be excellent quality, based on sound scientific research. I just feel a little misled by the approach taken with the change in formulation.
Hi Fiona,
Yes it's unfortunate there's been this confusion. We issued a number of press releases (it's also been in the trade news this month), we promoted the new formulation heavily via our own social media and we did write to all stockists but it would appear some have not updated their information as yet which we will follow up ASAP.
As I mentioned in the previous post, we will still be offering the original Gut Balancer in a pouch version for those wishing to use that. The new formulation is far and away the best out there and we most certainly do not want to confuse customers as we want and encourage people to compare active ingredient levels hence why we produce the graphs which are 100% accurate and taken from other brands product labels.
As I mentioned to Scarlett, drop me an email to my attention and I'm more than happy to ensure you are not disadvantaged by this.
Please be assured, there's no "smoke and mirrors" just clearly what we have tried to communicate hasn't happened as well as it should and I can only apologise for that.
Vicky
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...n-ingredients-etc.771040/#l2UdAcYoIYLwVq9V.99
 

Fruitcake

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Hi Fiona,
Yes it's unfortunate there's been this confusion. We issued a number of press releases (it's also been in the trade news this month), we promoted the new formulation heavily via our own social media and we did write to all stockists but it would appear some have not updated their information as yet which we will follow up ASAP.
As I mentioned in the previous post, we will still be offering the original Gut Balancer in a pouch version for those wishing to use that. The new formulation is far and away the best out there and we most certainly do not want to confuse customers as we want and encourage people to compare active ingredient levels hence why we produce the graphs which are 100% accurate and taken from other brands product labels.
As I mentioned to Scarlett, drop me an email to my attention info@sciencesupplements.co.uk and I'm more than happy to ensure you are not disadvantaged by this.
Please be assured, there's no "smoke and mirrors" just clearly what we have tried to communicate hasn't happened as well as it should and I can only apologise for that.
Vicky

Thanks for the helpful reply.

I do have confidence that the new formulation will be effective. I actually think that, if it had been dealt with differently / more openly, I might’ve been persuaded to make the conscious decision to switch anyway, even knowing it would end up costing more.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree regarding the comparison graphs. Red Nose’s suggestion above about providing a £1 for £1 comparison would, in my view, be more useful and less confusing.

I am pleased to hear that the old formula will still be available I do wonder why this wasn’t publicised earlier though. Indeed, when a poster on FB asked whether the pouches would still be available, the reply said that they would be a “slightly different formulation, formulated for more short-term problems”. Why not just make it clear? I’m sure a lot of customer confusion and disappointment could have been avoided!

Anyway, hats of to SS for acknowledging their misjudgement in the way this was publicised (or not). It really is appreciated.
 

Scarlett

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Hi Scarlett,
I'm really sorry to hear you're not happy with how we communicated the improved formula. We did write to all stockists and also update our social media pages. The original formula will still be available in a pouch and this will be available to buy shortly. For all existing customers we are more than happy to give you the new formula at the same pro rated price until the pouches are ready to purchase. Please email info@sciencesupplements.co.uk and mark it to my attention and I'm happy to arrange this for you.
We do take on board all comments regarding how we communicated the change. It was certainly not our intention to cause confusion as we want to shout from the rooftops how good the product is, not confuse people.
Vicky Mitson - Science Supplements.

Vicky, thank you for the reply, I will email you later.

My horse has been diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease and his management has to be taken very seriously. On the SS gut balancer I do notice a difference but I absolutely hate feeling like I am being tricked by a company, especially one which berates other companies so vocally when they do anything questionable. I don't doubt the product is good but cost is a factor, especially with multiple horses, and the cost per horse, per month is now prohibitive at the recommended dose for many owners. Also I questioned this on your FB page when the launch was announced and my questions were deleted. I only wanted an explanation to what the change was, why the cost/weight change and wasn't aggressive or antagonistic. it just made the whole thing look suspicious. If there is nothing to hide then why refuse to answer questions?

Can I suggest you make a point of re-contacting your stockists? The seller I bought my last tub from on ebay is still advertising the 1.3kg tub at the old price, as it seems are many others, and is refusing to acknowledge I didn't receive exactly what I bought and wont refund the difference as 'I received a larger quantity' than I ordered. Yes it's only £7 but it's the principle.

Thanks :)
 
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