Scoping a horse for ulcers..?

[Kafairia]

Hi,

I've got some various questions regarding scoping horses for gastric ulcers. I'm considering having it done on my TB... it could be me being paranoid but I feel like he has some symptoms which include:

-very girthy at times! Will pin ears and pretend to bite when hes in the mood for it, which is completely out of his character, hes very genuine, sweetheart.
-was very very skinny before coming to us, I wouldn't call ji a poor doer, but he is on the thin side.
-can seem uncomfortable when you touch his stomach (underneath)
He also had absolutely atrocious teeth when we bought him, which mean't he struggled with coarse forage and hard feeds, meaning he did not get enough forage for I'm not sure how long. I'm just curious as hes my only boy that has these symptoms.

Roughly, how much does scoping cost? He is insured if ulcers were found, and also is there any risks or possible side effects from scoping? And do you think he has enough symptoms to consider this?

I'm just concerned and want the best for him.

Saddle, teeth, back, hooves all fine.

 

[BBP]

I would say yes, that sounds like enough for me to think he may have ulcers. I know not everyone likes to scope as you have to withdraw food for approx. 12 hours prior to scoping which some think can trigger ulcers in a horse that may not even have had them. That said, I had my horse scoped and am very glad I did. He didn't show the classic signs like your horse is, so it was really hard to make that judgement on whether to just try treating and see if it helps. it cost me around £250 although some vets will have free scoping offers through the year. Mine coped very well with the starving and the scope. I have seen one that reacted to the anaesthetic and went down in the stocks fitting, but that would have happened with the anaesthetic no matter what procedure he was in for. Treatment is expensive but if he does have ulcers it can really transform them, it certainly did with my horse.

 

[SEL]

Mine was around £350. They did it at home and my horse has quite severe food anxiety (hand reared as a baby) so I was dreading it. She was actually really chilled. Not sure whether it was some kind of horse related 6th sense but she didn't kick up a fuss when the other horses at the yard were fed in the morning & behaved like a angel until the sedative wore off - then she yelled like a demon for breakfast!

Mine had grade 2 ulcers but a lot of inflammation. It took 8 weeks for her to respond to omeprazole. Insurance covered it but obviously she's excluded now. I never did get to the bottom of exactly what caused them. Food anxiety is the trickiest to manage, but she also had PSSM & now arthritis so that could be in the mix.

 

[PorkChop]

Sometimes Vets will do a "scoping day" at a larger yard, to keep the cost down.

Around here it is about £250-£300.

If they find them, then take full advantage of your insurance as they will excluded the following year. As long as you aren't using a budget insurance company most will pay out on the first claim, unless you have only just bought him.

 

[Notimetoride]

Definitely scope. My vets were doing half price ones so cost £100 plus anaesthetic. She didn't show many symptoms, I just thought I would have her scoped to be sure she wasn't in pain before boot camp !! I was totally shocked to find she had grade 3 ulcers !! She had to fast for 8 hours beforehand and the procedure was pretty straightforward. She's now being treated with gastrogard and suflocrate

 

[007Equestrian]

I know some people just choose to use gastroguard or similar for a month, if symptoms go away then you assume they have ulcers and treat as such!

 

[Notimetoride]

But that could be v expensive if it actually isn't ulcers, as gastrogard is about £25 a tube. (£25 x 28 days = £700). It's cheaper to get pony scoped and then treat accordingly, hopefully covered by insurance. Then you get a definite diagnosis and if not ulcers, can investigate other avenues

 

[007Equestrian]

But that could be v expensive if it actually isn't ulcers, as gastrogard is about £25 a tube. (£25 x 28 days = £700). It's cheaper to get pony scoped and then treat accordingly, hopefully covered by insurance. Then you get a definite diagnosis and if not ulcers, can investigate other avenues

Very true, I didn't think it was as expensive as that Never done it myself, only worked on yards that followed that practice

 

[dixie]

I post this a lot on these posts, but this video is definitely worth watching if you think your horse has ulcers & yours sounds like he does:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4&t=185s

I was also dreading taking the food away beforehand but as it was overnight it wasn't too bad at all, as I just got to the yard, loaded him up and took him to the vets.

 

[_GG_]

Talk it through with your vet first. Scoping means fasting for 12 hours which is not ideal for a horse that does have ulcers. I did have George scoped when I first got him and I also had him scoped following treatment but his were severe and numerous grade 4's. The vet couldn't actually find any healthy tissue so scoping afterwards was a must. He ended up on GG for 12 weeks to clear them. About 6 months later, despite living out in a herd 24/7 on very natural grazing in huge fields, with hay, his symptoms started to return. I had a different vet out to the yard for a liveries horse and spoke to her about it and she just said not to put him through scoping and she cleared me for as much GG as I needed so I just bought it. My insurance didn't cover it at that point anyway so I wasn't losing out.

 

[Luci07]

In the interim worth feeding as though he does have ulcers. My previous yard switched over to that regime as 2 were showing signs and she thought prevention would work for the others. We all moved onto Alfa A Oil as a base plus a balancer and the horses were always fed before being ridden. If a horse was being worked well away from feed times, she would still bung a large double handful to the horse before working. Appreciate not every horse can eat Alfa A but it worked well on a yard full of eventers.

 

[JDee]

My vet who only deal with horses is not keen on scoping for ulcers. The routine is invasive and not risk free plus some horses get really distressed about the procedure so also need sedation.
The omeprazole treatment isn't terribly expensive and its very effective and starts to work quite quickly - plus its not going to hurt the horse if it proves not to be ulcers
You can't scope for hindgut ulcers or treat them with omeprazole
Another thing to consider is encysted worms

 

[be positive]

My vet who only deal with horses is not keen on scoping for ulcers. The routine is invasive and not risk free plus some horses get really distressed about the procedure so also need sedation.
The omeprazole treatment isn't terribly expensive and its very effective and starts to work quite quickly - plus its not going to hurt the horse if it proves not to be ulcers
You can't scope for hindgut ulcers or treat them with omeprazole
Another thing to consider is encysted worms

I think the treatment is far more expensive over here, people have been getting it sent from the US to try and save money, insurance often want to have evidence that there are ulcers before paying out for what could be unnecessary treatment so it may be essential to scope before treating.
I had one scoped and it caused him no distress, he was clear so we would have wasted more than the cost of scoping if we had not scoped first and just given GG for a month.

 

[Notimetoride]

My vet who only deal with horses is not keen on scoping for ulcers. The routine is invasive and not risk free plus some horses get really distressed about the procedure so also need sedation.
The omeprazole treatment isn't terribly expensive and its very effective and starts to work quite quickly - plus its not going to hurt the horse if it proves not to be ulcers
You can't scope for hindgut ulcers or treat them with omeprazole
Another thing to consider is encysted worms

I don't understand this. I have a good friend who is a vet and before my horse was scoped I was concerned about how she would cope with the procedure. My friend assured me it's very straightforward and the horse copes fine with it. And sure enough my horse was totally fine with the procedure. She had no food for 8 hours so at 10pm I removed her haynet ready for the procedure first thing next morning. She was sedated and the camera put up her nose. I watched the whole procedure. She was totally fine, and I am so so glad we did it as she was found to have grade 3 ulcers !! Ok, so the procedure might not be the nicest thing the horse has done, but it's necessary to be able to know what is going on inside and treat accordingly. Tough love if you would like to call it that. We're now 2 weeks into treatment and already have a far happier horse. She's being scoped again in a couple of weeks and will keep on doing so until ulcers have gone, and after that I'm tempted to have one done yearly as I don't want her to get them as bad again

 

[JDee]

To answer both of the above - I don't know if Omeprazole is cheaper here or not so can't comment on that. I do know that you can now buy it for horses 'over the counter' now and don't need to get a prescription from your Vet or buy from your Vet. I do know some people who've bought the same drug but marketed for humans and given to their horses at the adjusted dose and they said it was cheaper than the equine version
As for being 'not risk free' - nothing invasive or involving sedation (if needed) is risk free and just because your one horse has no problem with it and nothing went wrong it doesn't mean that others won't. You're also depriving of food for a long time and in a horse with ulcers that's a risky thing to do as well
When I have used omeprazole on a horse with ulcers I saw an improvement after just two days especially when used with an antacid that contained a 'buffer'
You also need to remember that the scope isn't going to tell you if the horse also has hindgut ulcers and the omeprazole won't 'cure' them
If a horse has ulcers then you need to also figure out why they have ulcers and deal with that too - much better to prevent them than to have to keep on treating them

 

[Notimetoride]

To answer both of the above - I don't know if Omeprazole is cheaper here or not so can't comment on that. I do know that you can now buy it for horses 'over the counter' now and don't need to get a prescription from your Vet or buy from your Vet. I do know some people who've bought the same drug but marketed for humans and given to their horses at the adjusted dose and they said it was cheaper than the equine version
As for being 'not risk free' - nothing invasive or involving sedation (if needed) is risk free and just because your one horse has no problem with it and nothing went wrong it doesn't mean that others won't. You're also depriving of food for a long time and in a horse with ulcers that's a risky thing to do as well
When I have used omeprazole on a horse with ulcers I saw an improvement after just two days especially when used with an antacid that contained a 'buffer'
You also need to remember that the scope isn't going to tell you if the horse also has hindgut ulcers and the omeprazole won't 'cure' them
If a horse has ulcers then you need to also figure out why they have ulcers and deal with that too - much better to prevent them than to have to keep on treating them

If my vet says my horse needs scoping, that's what we do. Yes 8 hours without food isn't ideal but the long term gain (diagnosing and treating the ulcers) far outweighs the 8 hour food depravation. It's a case of weighing up the likelihood of anything going wrong. The scoping procedure is low risk. There are risks to every operation involving a general anaesthetic but they are usually still carried out. I can't imagine why anyone would not get their horse scoped if ulcers are suspected. For the record, post the ' invasive' scoping, ulcer diagnosis and subsequent medication and tweaks to feeding regime I now have a content and beautifully behaved horse who is now enjoying her dressage again and is an absolute pleasure to ride and handle. Personally I am extremely happy that we went down this route (and I suspect my horse is too!) However if the scope had shown no ulcers, I would have had no need to give her medication she doesn't need and we would have carried out alternative investigations

 

[Ceriann]

Had mine scoped in summer after my mare just decided one day that just wasn't going to go forward for me ridden. I got everything checked, physio out but she wasn't right and on lunge seemed a bit sticky at the back (though not lame). Had full lameness work up and then scoped - scoping itself was about 250. She had marked ulceration - glandular and squamous region - 1s, 2s and 3s. 12 weeks of peptizole and she scoped clear (vet was amazed) but it's been a long journey since and we're still not there yet (remembered pain etc). If she showed serious signs again I wouldnt scope again, I would just treat but it is worth investigating everything as so often ulcers are a symptom of another issue. Best of luck.