Scotland: people entering field with horses, anything you can do?

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Scot123

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Hi. I'm not sure there's a solution here, but if anybody has advice it would be good. Our horses are in a field (in Scotland) bordered by quiet roads. I am having huge trouble with people 1) feeding the horses all sorts of stuff and 2) people actually going into the field.
I've put signs up explaining why not to feed them (there's a laminitic in the field) and I've put a line of electric fencing about 10ft into the field with the horses behind that. But people are obviously climbing the gate and going up to the electric fence and throwing food in! Also a neighbour has just told me that the other day she saw a car pull up and a man and little girl got out - the man lifted her over the fence and into the field where she ran about amongst the horses.
I am going to run a line of electric fence along the whole top of the fenceline and over the gate. But am I allowed to put up any sort of 'keep out - livestock' notices in Scotland? Any other ideas as I'm quite sure one day one of the horses will become seriously ill, or some eejit who goes into the field will get injured by them.
 
Yes, you can put signs up afaik-whether people will heed them is another matter. The hotline over the gate is good although hide the energiser. It drives me mad, I bet he doesnt put (at least I hope he doesnt) his little girl in with cattle etc.
 
Yes I was thinking the energiser will have to be well hidden! You see I'm not sure about warning notices, I'm sure I've read before that if anything DID happen then you've almost admitted liability in advance? I know, can you imagine the stupidity of putting a little child to run amongst horses?! It does make me think that if people are that daft then they won't pay attention to ANY notice.
 
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You are not allowed to put keepout notices up but I guess you could say dangerous horses or whatever but maybe like warning signs for dogs you could be in trouble if anyone was hurt.....funny world really.
 
If you have electric fencing I think you have to have warning signs for it. Which would probably be a good deterrent anyway. But you'll need to padlock your energiser to something!
 
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Yes, I've ordered the warning signs too! But I do need to check how far apart they need to be... Hiding the energiser might be biggest challenge in a very open field!
 
What about graphic pictures of sick or even dead horses to show what could happen? If it upsets the child then they may not want to go and feed the horses anyway.
 
Scot123 said:
Yes, I've ordered the warning signs too! But I do need to check how far apart they need to be... Hiding the energiser might be biggest challenge in a very open field!
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I can't remember the legality of the spacing but I think it's something like every 100m. We have one side of our grazing that runs alongside an old railway that people walk along so we've put the signs up every 15-20m (Dad is H&S mad!)

Does your field have a public right of way through it? If not I'm sure that the public access laws of Scotland don't include land with stock and that private fields are still private property. I know that the trespass law is frustratingly non-existent. Here are the only links that I can find although they relate to fields with Rights of Way.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17s.pdf

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/farm-animals

I'd definitely try putting up signs on the gate that it's private property/no trespassing and further signs that feeding the horses leads to ill health. It might also be worth getting a dummy camera and/or signs saying that there is CCTV surveillance.

People!!! Why can't they just leave alone. I can't believe the stupidity of putting a small child in a field of unknown horses!!
 
The Trooper said:
Id be tempted to do something unconventional.... Make up a sign showing a picture of damage done by a horses kick, say on the sign these horses may kick or words to that effect, laminate and display.

Taking my inspiration from the health warnings on cigs.
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Please don't do this, I have read previously about someone being liable for injury caused due to saying the horses may bite; apparently this is accepting the horses are dangerous, and by having people able to get to them easily and readily, you are not containing them adequately. (I don't agree with it, I just read it - please don't shoot the messenger!)
 
TPO said:
I can't remember the legality of the spacing but I think it's something like every 100m. We have one side of our grazing that runs alongside an old railway that people walk along so we've put the signs up every 15-20m (Dad is H&S mad!)

Does your field have a public right of way through it? If not I'm sure that the public access laws of Scotland don't include land with stock and that private fields are still private property. I know that the trespass law is frustratingly non-existent. Here are the only links that I can find although they relate to fields with Rights of Way.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17s.pdf

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/farm-animals

I'd definitely try putting up signs on the gate that it's private property/no trespassing and further signs that feeding the horses leads to ill health. It might also be worth getting a dummy camera and/or signs saying that there is CCTV surveillance.

People!!! Why can't they just leave alone. I can't believe the stupidity of putting a small child in a field of unknown horses!!
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You cannot put up no trespassing signs or ones saying private property, what’s the point of the public having right of access if landowners think they haven’t ?
 
bonny said:
You cannot put up no trespassing signs or ones saying private property, what’s the point of the public having right of access if landowners think they haven’t ?
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Yes you can put signs up, there is no law against that, but they just don't mean anything when it comes to the crunch.

A field with no right of way is different from a right of way. If there is no right of way through the field then there is no reason for anyone to be in the field much in the same way that I can't decide that I just want to walk through my neighbour's garden. The public have right of access on public rights of way not to go marching through a field of crop or stock. This access law has been the bane of farmers up here as people as so stupid and disrespectful.
 
TPO said:
Yes you can put signs up, there is no law against that, but they just don't mean anything when it comes to the crunch.

A field with no right of way is different from a right of way. If there is no right of way through the field then there is no reason for anyone to be in the field much in the same way that I can't decide that I just want to walk through my neighbour's garden. The public have right of access on public rights of way not to go marching through a field of crop or stock. This access law has been the bane of farmers up here as people as so stupid and disrespectful.
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We’ve had this argument before on here, gardens and fields are two separate things !
 
2 new gateposts a 6ft (1.8 mtr) solid timber gate they cannot climb over padlocked.your electric fence 15ft (5mtrs) inside so thrown over food is not accesible to the horse. Yes expencive but a possible cure , depending on other access points.
 
you can keep people off/out of an area if you can claim that work/farming etc is going on-seems to work for the local estate owner. if for any reason you don't want people on your land, you've the right to put up no access signs. so if you don't want people there the onus in Scotland is for landowner to put signs up, in England its assumed you've no right to be on the owners land unless you have permission. And people feeding horses is a problem in England too.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11927290.wrong-ideas-about-scots-right-of-way/
 
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MotherOfChickens said:
you can keep people off/out of an area if you can claim that work/farming etc is going on-seems to work for the local estate owner. if for any reason you don't want people on your land, you've the right to put up no access signs. so if you don't want people there the onus in Scotland is for landowner to put signs up, in England its assumed you've no right to be on the owners land unless you have permission. And people feeding horses is a problem in England too.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11927290.wrong-ideas-about-scots-right-of-way/
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That article is 30 years old and not surprisingly way out of date !
 
bonny said:
That article is 30 years old and not surprisingly way out of date !
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ha, thats what I get for trying to multitask. You still have the right to protect your stock, plenty of wired shut gates around here and in reality not many are going to do much about it. You can too restrict that area deemed necessary to keep any stock separate that you need to. Any idiot who lets a young child run around horses on their own though, isn't going to give a stuff about a sign-make it difficult for them, wire it up and put plenty of signs about electric shocks. IME (having kept horses in the middle of two villages in Scotland) mostly this sort is best dealt with by engaging and educating them-and/or letting them have a little access while you are there (petting a horse while you have hold of it etc)


as an aside, if you put a sign up saying horses can be unpredictable, would that make you liable? as opposed to saying horse will bite etc?
 
Electric fencing along top of the fence/gate signs saying do not enter, live electric fencing and do not feed. Keep your fencing further back so anything thrown has less chance of getting there.
 
Hi and thanks all. There's no right of way across the land. But as I think I already knew, and from what you've all said, if these people have decided they want to feed or run around with the horses, there's probably no sign going to stop them - other than the 'you might get injured' sign, but I can't risk putting that up!

It's interesting as when there was a spate of this happening before, I put the word out amongst the neighbours and as many dog walkers as I could and explained about the feeding etc and everyone was really nice and positive. However, from what I've been told, these recent people look like daytrippers and tourists and not locals.

I might do what you suggest and move the inner fence even further back and I'll definitely be running electric along the top of the outer fence - with LOTS of warning signs so it's not me who gets into trouble. And I've padlocked the gate.

It just is so infuriating isn't it?! Because of a few ignorant/foolish/selfish people I have had to barricade the horses in at considerable expense and inconvenience AND it means they don't get petted like they used to by passing kids which is really sad as it used to bring a smile to the wee children round here to be able to stop and pat them :(
 
Thank you. I see it says "Before entering a field, check to see what alternatives there are." Well, in this case, the alternative is just to keep on walking as you don't have to cross the field to get to anywhere :)
 
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TPO said:
Yes you can put signs up, there is no law against that, but they just don't mean anything when it comes to the crunch.

A field with no right of way is different from a right of way. If there is no right of way through the field then there is no reason for anyone to be in the field much in the same way that I can't decide that I just want to walk through my neighbour's garden. The public have right of access on public rights of way not to go marching through a field of crop or stock. This access law has been the bane of farmers up here as people as so stupid and disrespectful.
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Our laws up here mean people can roam anywhere, this includes fields with crops or animals in them. Its different if they're damaging crops or upsetting the animals, but people technically are still legally allowed to walk their dog for example round your field. Ive lived up here my whole life and luckily live rurally enough that nobody has ever set foot in my field and I absolutely would go and question someone if they did (even if they're allowed!). It doesn't matter if there's a right of way or not. A garden is totally different - these people cannot walk in. Fields however they can. If I were you, I'd definately electrify the top line of your field all the way around (and over top of gate) making sure to put those yellow warning signs along it (or you could get in trouble) and then Id just stick some laminated signs up saying please dont feed the horses as they're on special diets or something and please do not approach them but I wouldnt state why (then youre not liable). Id also stick up the odd CCTV sign for good measure too!
 
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Technically people can't "roam anywhere" The access law does state to stick to footpaths or the edge of field - and not walk through growing crops etc. It isn't just a free for all there are (very loose) rules around it. So frustrating. Different to your situation but we have folk drive up the farm road (right of way for walker, cyclists, horses but a private road - planning dept advised we are well within our rights to put up a private road no unauthrised vehicles" sign, abandon the car somewher eon the steadin gnad just let their dogs out to sh1t/run around wherever takes their fancy. So annoying. Folk often don't bother about signs, expecially when they aren't enforceable. You have my sympathies
 
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I came home one day to find someone parked in the turn-in space at the top of my drive, and playing football up and down the drive! They didn't wave, smile or apologise, just left so I could drive in... Yes I'm rural, but it was pretty clearly a drive to a house. I've also been told it was a parent's "right to let my child play with your horse in the field if that's what she wants to do, I'm sure the horse would run away if he didn't like it"... I did manage to educate that one.
 
Hello again. Further to all your good advice I now have a field that looks like a fortified military zone! However... it's been brought to my attention that despite electric fence, signs and barbed wire there is still somebody making it in EVERY day and feeding large amounts of carrots and apples to the horses. They come in a car and a neighbour has offered to get the registration number. What I wonder is - this person is actually making the horses ill by doing this, with laminitis diarrhoea - so could I prosecute (or threaten to do so) him?
 
Scot123 said:
Hello again. Further to all your good advice I now have a field that looks like a fortified military zone! However... it's been brought to my attention that despite electric fence, signs and barbed wire there is still somebody making it in EVERY day and feeding large amounts of carrots and apples to the horses. They come in a car and a neighbour has offered to get the registration number. What I wonder is - this person is actually making the horses ill by doing this, with laminitis diarrhoea - so could I prosecute (or threaten to do so) him?
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I can't comment legally other than advise asking the BHS Legal Helpline if you're a Gold member. However I cannot believe these people in the car - what on earth?? Do your horses look starved or something??!! It beggars belief. You could try setting up a wildlife camera that is camouflaged and activates when movement is detected. Then at least you've got evidence.
 
Our house and field is a bit of a tourist spot people literally pull up have a look walk up and down along our boundary fence, even when the dog is barking like a nutter, luckily most of my field on the road side has 10 ft stinging nettles along it so no chance of anyone getting over that in summer, we don't tend to see many in the winter!
 
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