Scum on the rampage

Raising tuition fees doesn NOT mean you will have more people doing 'useful' degrees - the very opposite in fact.

People from poorer backgrounds cannot afford to study veterinary medicine, biomedicine, law or engineering. So you just end up with people who are very well off and can afford university STILL going there to study what you call 'useless' degrees. I knew just as many people who came from boarding schools who studied sociology, anthropology, media and english as people who couldn't fford a rise in tuition fees.

The degree choice quality is unaffected - just the amount of people who are going. So by default there are LESS doctors and vets, and FEWER engineers and barristers, etc.
 
I agree, that these idiot people were absolutely out of line using violence and trashing things and it just shows that completely ignorant thickos are now allowed into the university system if they can pay for it, rather than if they're intelligent enough! Ridiculous!

I am a student at present (though a pretty old one) and firmly believe that we should return to the old system where only the brightest and best are able to attend university FOR FREE on the basis of their exam results from GCSE/A Level NOT how much they are able to pay.

The amount of people attending university these days is ridiculous and should be reduced radically, those qualifying should be allowed in on proven academic results alone.

The previous government allowed more and more people into university to try and convince everyone that unemployment was at it's lowest ever... the bubble had to burst sooner or later, so let's wipe the slate clean and do things correctly from here on in. Not worsen the problem by making the stupid and intelligent both shell out more!
 
The problem these days is that most youngsters just don't want to work so they think by going to university it means they can just bum about partying! The majority of people who come out of uni end up in a job with no relevance to what they studied in university anyway. I think entrance levels should be reviewed and only let those in who genuinly want to be there for educational purposes
 
perfect11s said:
Why do this lot think they are intitled to further education??? just turned on the news to a load of cretins wrecking central london ..... far to many are going to uni and its about time only the brightest got in and the rest learnt a usefull trade instead........
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That load of cretins do not represent students. The NUS have condemned the violence, and I think you'll find that a lot students are angry that these idiots used their march as an excuse to come out and cause trouble for the sake of it. I highly doubt a lot of them were even students. The term "rent-a-mob" springs to mind.

So perhaps you could try NOT tarring all of "that lot" with the same brush, because there were thousands there who went to protest peacefully and show their support for the NUS, their voice.

And as for the "learning a useful trade", guess what? That will cost the taxpayer too and even after doing the relevant course, jobs aren't exactly certain then.
 
Caz89 said:
The problem these days is that most youngsters just don't want to work so they think by going to university it means they can just bum about partying! The majority of people who come out of uni end up in a job with no relevance to what they studied in university anyway. I think entrance levels should be reviewed and only let those in who genuinly want to be there for educational purposes
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It's a shame that most of us get tarred with this brush too, I know my mother's partner says all Uni goers are slobs etc etc, which is certainly not the case with me or most people I know.

The thing that riles me are the people that only have lectures for 16hrs a week and stay in bed/go drinking for the rest of the time - when I start my week is going to be at least 40hrs + all the rotations (Nursing degree).
 
xloopylozzax said:
The fact Scotland gets free degrees riles me aswell! (not to mention prescriptions and god knows what else :mad:)

What Scotland is this!? Lived here all my life and always had to pay for my prescriptions. Would love them to be free but thats not likely any time soon. Any freebies we are getting (think its only the over 60s that get any!) I doubt will be free for much longer. The Scottish Govt are reviewing the funding of degrees and though they keep banging on about finding a Scottish solution to the problem I'd imagine they will have ask students to start paying something.

I study with the Open Uni and so I pay for my tuition fees as I go, its not cheap but manageable and more and more young folk who would normally go to a brick Uni are now turning to the Open Uni as they can work and study so gain work experience plus the knowledge at the same time, I love it and would encourage anyone considering getting a degree to have a look at the Open Uni.

I am disgusted with the actions of the small minority who caused that trouble, there is no need for that behaviour and hope Edinburgh doesn't get a repeat of it when the Scottish Govt finally concedes defeat and asks students to start paying here. By sheer numbers of students who attended I think the message was delivered without the need for violence.

I agree that degrees nowadays aren't worth as much as they used to unless you get them from a very good and well respected uni. If a degree is required for a particular industry then its not useless but certainly there seems to be a lot of fluffy subjects out there that don't seem to deserve help with funding as make little contribution to society.
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I wonder whether the protestors were University students or just rent a mob. I would be interested to see those who were arrested actually were at university or not.
If they were then they should be expelled if convicted.
Should the country pay towards educating younsters who cannot make meaniful protest without breaking the law.
 
Its really really annoyed me how all students have been tarred with the same brush!
And whoever said raise the fees higher!!!! Do you want to pay for my uni fees then?

I'm going to do a useful degree as in teaching and as it is its so competitive to get into I've had to stay on an extra year at college to get enough UCAS points.

As for the stupid degrees, I think they come about because of the stupid A levels you can take like archealogy? Really when is dinosaurs going to be useful unless this is your chosen proffesion!
 
I'm 40 and was lucky enough to be the last year that got any sort of grant and was in the first year when student loans were introduced. I couldn't do my job properly without my degree (Geology and MSc Environment) not only because of the actual factual side to it but because it taught me to research, analyse and question. It also meant that I met people from all over the country and the world from all kinds of background. I was very shy and had no confidence when I went to University and it has enriched my life far beyond academic qualifications.

Education benefits all of society not just those that actually received it. The majority of young people I know are hard-working decent people who deserve a good education regardless of their parents wealth, they are our future doctors, engineers, scientists, historians, leaders and problem solvers. It's really sad that so many can't see that.

The opinions of small-minded people with big chips on their shoulders disturbs me much more on the whole than the very few people who decided to kick-off yesterday.

We are NOT in it together - this phrase makes want to vomit - David Cameron and his cohorts are very rich indeed and they have no concept of what it is like to have little or nothing. Living through the Thatcher years was hell for anyone on a low-income and it seems like the Cameron years will be a repeat.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I'm 40 and was lucky enough to be the last year that got any sort of grant and was in the first year when student loans were introduced. I couldn't do my job properly without my degree (Geology and MSc Environment) not only because of the actual factual side to it but because it taught me to research, analyse and question. It also meant that I met people from all over the country and the world from all kinds of background. I was very shy and had no confidence when I went to University and it has enriched my life far beyond academic qualifications.

Education benefits all of society not just those that actually received it. The majority of young people I know are hard-working decent people who deserve a good education regardless of their parents wealth, they are our future doctors, engineers, scientists, historians, leaders and problem solvers. It's really sad that so many can't see that.

The opinions of small-minded people with big chips on their shoulders disturbs me much more on the whole than the very few people who decided to kick-off yesterday.

We are NOT in it together - this phrase makes want to vomit - David Cameron and his cohorts are very rich indeed and they have no concept of what it is like to have little or nothing. Living through the Thatcher years was hell for anyone on a low-income and it seems like the Cameron years will be a repeat.
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Im pleased for you, that you had a good education. Sadly the people with big chips on shoulders are more about inverted snobbery and believing you're a victim and all this pathetic leftwing tosh about thatcher. What about all the people who bettered themselves got to own a house started a bussiness because the tories made it possible, the left want you to feel dependent on the state,hate self reliance and loath anyone who is a freethinker..... cameron and his cohorts want you me and everyone to better themselves for the good of every member of society ...please dont let the left try to ruin this great country ever again...
 
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agree with sussexbythesea and kokopelli

besides, it wasn't the vast, vast majority of students who started the problems, hundreds of similar "protests" took place on the same day and weeks before all around the country with no problem, we had one in Truro on the same day as the London one, it was calm and peaceful and they made their valid point well

I'm 18 and chose not to go to uni due to my horse, location and the fee's involved, my sister is in her final year of uni which has been vital for her future career, I support their cause totally - my friends who are at uni in their first year are not all out 'partying' all the time either
 
'We the undersigned wish to congratulate staff and students on the magnificent anti-cuts demonstration this afternoon," said the lecturers. "We wish to condemn and distance ourselves from the from the divisive and, in our view, counterproductive statements issued by NUS and [national] UCU concerning the occupation of the Conservative Party HQ. The real violence in this situation relates not to a smashed window but to the destructive impact of the cuts."

It's like the 1980's all over again.
 
Three of my friends were on the march in question: they said it was a very peaceful protest, until the Socialist Workers Party turned up, and it was this bunch of yobs who started the fires, and smashed windows etc, and they had nothing to do with NUS. They apparently dispersed into the crowd and started chants about stopping the cuts in general, not just student finance, which was the original point of the demonstration.

I agree with the title of the thread: just not with the association of the students on the march. The Socialist Workers Party is entirely at fault.

All the people from our college who attended the demonstration have applied for uni starting September 2011: they will not be affected by the cuts, however, they felt it was unfair to first year students applying for 2012 who will be affected. I myself have applied for Veterinary (useful or no? ;) ) starting September 2011, and won't be affected by the cuts either, however I still think it is unfair to raise the fees when students already come out of uni with thousands of pounds worth of debt.
 
At the age of 16 you have a choice, to go onto further education if it be 6th form or collage, or if you decide to take the route to work or a training scheme such as an apprentiship. If you chose college and know that you want to go to university what is wrong in starting a fund there and then for 2 years before you go to easen the blow?

Before you ask, there are loads of these appreniships around, we have a few at work and are still recruiting but these cant be fill as young people who they are aimed at (16-19) dont want £95 per week including all travel paid for and NVQ training paid for. The apprienships include HR, Finance, Customer service, Admin, PA work. THey want more money because with some crappy A levels they think they deserve more. They have no experience yet companys are will to pay them to get the experience.

You also have a choice which university you go to, yes this does depend upon grade achived, thus those who are achieving the better grades are acepted into the better unis. The paper the degree is written on is worth more!

A university higher in the league table will charge more (in the new fee system) than those lower down. In black and white you would pay more for a designer coat as expecting better and getting more out of it, this should be appiled for unis, the better the uni, expect to pay more.

People forget there are other ways in getting degrees such as working full time and doing a degree part time. Doing a degree through work, or even working for a few years then going to uni after.

These students ARE NOT entitled to anything, you have to work in this world and work hard at that for everything you want, this does not mean that everything should be handed to you on a plate.

Deserving and entitlement is a load of balls.

I personally think that Engineering, medical, law and other such degrees should be paid for by the gov so that we ensure as a country we have enough of these skills around and be self suffient without relying on forigne personal.

Dont see it as bad debt see it as an investment. People dont see morgages as bad debt they see it as a home or sometimes as an investment.

It winds me up. These students needs to get a grip of the real world.
 
These "students" (if thats even who they were) who broke down windows etc weren't the majority - the majority were easily overlooked as they stood peacefully waving placards - let's just remember that.

A degree still means something IMO. The universities can't be blamed for offering something which is in demand, so don't blame them for "mickey mouse degrees." The students who go into any degree without a clear idea of what they want at the end are partly to blame, and so too is the abysmal career support and counselling provided in schools and colleges. In my experience, those students who emerge from university with no experience only have themselves to blame, as it is perfectly possible to study for a degree and work, and there were always plenty of opportunities for part time career-related paid jobs, and always loads of posters around uni and talks emphasising that a degree alone won't land you your perfect graduate job, you need experience too.

Yes I think we are in danger of losing/ have already lost some of the kudos associated with having a degree. Yes I think they need to be harder to get onto (I could have got into mine on A level grades of BB & D ) - No, I don't think raising tuition fees is going to do anything constructive, only make society more elitist and those who can't afford it are going to be carrying more debt for the rest of their lives.
 
I'm with Naturally. There are opportunities out there clearly advertised by universities for placements (paid and unpaid), volunteering, work experience etc. I think students who show initiative and go and seek these opportunities or get careers help will be rewarded by employers.
 
Caz89 said:
The majority of people who come out of uni end up in a job with no relevance to what they studied in university anyway. I think entrance levels should be reviewed and only let those in who genuinly want to be there for educational purposes
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Well, no. A lot of employers seek out students from subjects that aren't directly relevant to the field because of the key skills learnt in it. For example I know a lot of history students were 'headhunted' by law firms over anyone in the law department - the firms actually approach the history dept before law.

My best friend studied english lit & german and has ended up in a 100K+commision p.a. job in recruitment (actuary). My OH studied english and was chosen over 8000 other grads (mostly business) for his job.

My dept (psychology) was also targeted by MI5 and MI6 - any interested interviewess were contacted via blackboard and invited to stay in Edinburgh for an informal chat. We were studying psychology, not intelligence and communications.

Subject choice doesn't matter - a first from oxbridge in history is worth more than a 3rd from a glorified polytechnic in law and IT.
 
Kokopelli said:
Its really really annoyed me how all students have been tarred with the same brush!
And whoever said raise the fees higher!!!! Do you want to pay for my uni fees then?

I'm going to do a useful degree as in teaching and as it is its so competitive to get into I've had to stay on an extra year at college to get enough UCAS points.

As for the stupid degrees, I think they come about because of the stupid A levels you can take like archeology? Really when is dinosaurs going to be useful unless this is your chosen proffesion!
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Nope, I'm struggling enough paying my own, with no loans...

A wannabe teacher who can't see the use of archeology? Yeah, definitely not paying your fees.

Also. Paleontology is the study of "dinosaurs" if you like. Archeology is the study of past HUMAN life.

So, what was your point exactly? ;)
 
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Kokopelli said:
Its really really annoyed me how all students have been tarred with the same brush!
And whoever said raise the fees higher!!!! Do you want to pay for my uni fees then?

I'm going to do a useful degree as in teaching and as it is its so competitive to get into I've had to stay on an extra year at college to get enough UCAS points.

As for the stupid degrees, I think they come about because of the stupid A levels you can take like archealogy? Really when is dinosaurs going to be useful unless this is your chosen proffesion!
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Do you not see the benefit in having entrance to teaching degrees competitive? These people are going to be educating future generations of children, not packing bags in Tesco!
 
To clear up several points
1. Scotland do NOT have free prescriptions that is in fact WALES
2. Foreign students do have to pay a Scottish unis (my mother is a professor at a top Scottish uni and is VERY actively encouraged to take foreign students as they bring in the ££££)
3. I think the subject is irrelevant tbh i think those who study a subject they enjoy are more likely to succeed.

I went to Aberyswyth (hell on earth, and also a terrible uni and i do have others to compare with!) and left to years ago, i recieved not a penny in loans grants or anything else. Now i am hoping to study a degree part time and dont seem to be entilted to a penny mainly due to the fact i work! How is that fair???
My boyfriend got a grant of £500 a year from Powys county council for living in Wales and going to a Welsh university!!! Can only assume funded by the tax payer???
Also Aberystwyth dished out "emergency" loans that did not have o be paid back (up to the value of £1000) to those who had in fact spent all their normal loans ! Several of the recepients i knew bought, holidays, cars, washing machines, shopping sprees and drinking. Can only assume this was funded by my fees???
 
Can I reiterate the fact that 50,000 students behaved peacefully, about 50 were violent so stop tarring them all with the same brush!

Those who support the fee rises, do you want to pay for those fees? How can anybody who isn't ridiculously rich afford them? Somebody suggested to get a job to save up in the two years beforehand but I know many 16yr olds who have no free time because they are so busy with school, horses, homework and other stuff that needs doing. When I was that age the only free time I had was 40 min each evening when I had finished my homework. I don't think many of you appreciate how hard many of these kids work. By the time I was 18 I was looking after my little brother, cleaning the house and looking after the horses and animals. I then had school six days a week and I worked for four hours every night. When could I have got a job?

Graduates earn far more (in general) than non-graduates and therefore pay more tax back into the system. If we got rid of "useless" degrees as some have mentioned, nobody would study languages, english, philosophy, art or any other humanities subjects. These graduates are often head-hunted by employers for the skills that they learn during their degree.

If the universities really want to raise their fees, then they can, but only if they drastically improve the service they provide. The only universities who could justify charging £9000 a year for all subjects are Oxford and Cambridge. Their students get about triple the contact time in humanities subjects than other universities. As you all know, it is extremely competitive to get in and therefore they have the right to charge the money. Another good university such as Manchester gives between 2-4 hours of contact time a week with lecture sizes of 600 for the same subject. How can they justify that?

Sorry for the rant, but this is something I feel very strongly about. :o
 
What was it you didn't like about Aber Quadro?
Just interested as I am here now (1st year). I am enjoying the course but the attitudes of some people here is just unbelievable (not in a good way ;) )
 
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