SEARCH FOR A STAR (or not)

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plymouth

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Hello everyone I would like to make you all aware that search for a star run by SEIB is not all its cracked up to be.

Let me tell you why, you pay you money and turn up at one of the five shows in the hope of getting a HOYS ticket after being placed first or second.

oh they have said if they want they will give one for 3rd as well.Not in rule book.

Well let me tell you even if you are placed first or second they still may not give you the ticket as the judges dont have to give it out its in there rules as they say to you.There are many things in there rules but they don't play by them at all.
They are more than happy to take your money and let you bring your horse along but as for giving you a ticket dont hold your breath they offer a prize but dont give it out so they then say your not good enough for HOYS oh yes all this after they have taken your money. Did i say they take your money with no intenstion of sticking to there own rules.

Last week 10 horses came forward for search for a star class 6 and they only gave out one HOYS tickets, and said to the rest not good enough so I say to you 9 others who paid entry fees and money to get to Badgeworth you have been take for a ride taking your entry fee under false pretences with no prize at the end.

SEIB the team that puts this together are no promoting the amateur as they say in all the paperwork. I would urgh you all to look at boycotting this event and also SEIB event for there poor handling of search for a star. Maybe look at getting a new insurance company too.

BE AWARE THAT RULES CAN BE BROKEN WHEN IT SUITS THE ONE's THAT RUN THE EVENT

please feel free to leave comments of you own feeling good or bad.
 
Hmmm. I did one of these classes a couple of years ago and haven't done one since. Entry form said limited entries but more than double entered. It was like speed -showing, we went in the arena and did one lap of walk, trot and canter then pulled in, The judge rode the same i.e one lap of each pace on the same rein as we had ridden then chucked out. Whole class (my half) took 35 minutes for 18 horses. Entries were best part of £40 as well. I noticed this year at the local qualifier for the class I would do it was all well known names that got the tickets.
 
It does say in the rules that you will only be invited to compete at HOYS if they think you are of a suitable standard.

9.6. A Qualifying Horse and Rider may be invited
to compete at HOYS. Qualifying in a class
in the Competition does not automatically
entitle a Horse and Rider to an invitation to
compete at HOYS. An invitation to compete
at HOYS will be issued only if the judges
consider the Qualifying Horse and Rider are
suitable to appear at HOYS. For the
avoidance of doubt, no Horse or Rider who
might have been placed first, second or third
but for the presence of the Qualified Horse
or Rider, will be entitled to compete at
HOYS unless invited to do so

and to be honest there still would have been 8 disappointed people so the money thing doesn't come into it you pay your money and take a chance if you don't want to don't enter.
 
SmallHunter said:
It does say in the rules that you will only be invited to compete at HOYS if they think you are of a suitable standard.

9.6. A Qualifying Horse and Rider may be invited
to compete at HOYS. Qualifying in a class
in the Competition does not automatically
entitle a Horse and Rider to an invitation to
compete at HOYS. An invitation to compete
at HOYS will be issued only if the judges
consider the Qualifying Horse and Rider are
suitable to appear at HOYS. For the
avoidance of doubt, no Horse or Rider who
might have been placed first, second or third
but for the presence of the Qualified Horse
or Rider, will be entitled to compete at
HOYS unless invited to do so

and to be honest there still would have been 8 disappointed people so the money thing doesn't come into it you pay your money and take a chance if you don't want to don't enter.
Click to expand...

Surely tho if you are good enough to qualify at one of the shows then you are good enough for HOYS ? I may be being naive as I'm an amateur. I do well at county level but when I get to Hickstead (ROR) I don't get a look in. This is because me and my horse are not good enough and I totally respect that but in my experience there have been 25 + in the ROR search for a star so surely the ones that qualify are good enough for HOYS ? I can understand if there are only 8 or so forward that you may not get the standard but not when it's a big class. I'm assuming that the other search for the stars catagories have pretty big entries ? Obviously I am only speaking from an ROR class experience.
 
Yes you are right rule 9.6 does say that

but rule 8.8 "say hard hats are to be worn by grooms at all times in the arena."

Is a baseball cap a hard hat ? or no hat at all.

rule 9.1 say 1st or 2nd only may be quailifying horses.

so how can they break the rules and give ticket to horse who come 3rd ?

rules are rules after all.

There are 9 disapointed as they didn't give 2nd a ticket.
 
I have seen classes where the judge has said "I'm not going to be awarding a first place" and also times where they have started with 2nd place in qualifiers if they feel none of the horses forward are worthy of representing that show in the final (have seen this for everything from Equifest qualifiers to RIHS). In every single class, if the judge doesn't feel a horse is worthy of qualifying, they have the right to withhold the qualifier.
 
I've never competed in these classes.

BUT to give my tuppenceworth - surely it is a good thing that they exist and that there are other routes for people to have a chance, for the sake of £40, at getting to HOYs? Ok the classes and system may not be perfect in everybody's eyes, right or wrongly, but ultimately it's creating more chances for people to get to the pinnacle of their dream who might not get there elsewhere.

Take as an example, I'm involved with NF ponies. Until this year, Olympia has held the Baileys Supreme M&M Championship. Until 2009 when Buster did his thing, that had never been won by a forester. As far as I know, this was helped in no small way by the fact that there was only 1 ticket available at NF specific breed classes, and that was at the Breed Show. Don't 100% quote me, as a bit of my mind thinks there may have been a 2nd way, but otherwise it was down to tickets in M&M mixed classes if at all, where all the larges are in together or at the very least the foresters and the connies go together. So in 2009 there was one forester to a couple at least of each welsh, dales, fell etc.

Every extra ticket available is a chance for somebody. Top names shouldn't be getting their tickets through SEIB classes, as they should be winning other classes. But if they're entitled to be there, then they're entitled to win. You know who is entitled to be against you when you enter, you can not rewrite the rulebook for yourself so that you are the best horse there (by you I mean 'one', not somebody specific on this thread). Rules, is rules. It is right that handing out HOYS tickets is to an extent discretionary. HOYS is a dream for most people because it represents a pinnacle. If the standard was allowed to fall, it wouldn't. If a judge has a class forward that is easy to place, but in which no horse is HOYS material and will not hold a candle to those who will be against it at HOYS who have qualified down other routes, why should it be there? I don't expect to be able to go showjumping at HOYS because I can pop round a 2ft course on a good day, why should I expect to be able to show there just because my horse has 4 legs?
 
Totally agree but my gripe with the class was the fact that they allowed so many entries I felt that we were not treated as competitors but as 'cash cows'.
I love the fact that I can compete in the same class along side people such as Katie Jerram, Alistair Hood, Lynn Russell etc on my little horse that cost me peanuts but I want to feel that I am getting my monies worth even tho I'm not going to get to HOYS
 
If you present a horse that isn't of a good enough standard then why is that the organisers problem?
 
I agree with that Carefreegirl - the class should be run properly for that amount of money, and if it's enormous and won't fit in the ring properly then split and the first 3 from both sections come back in for the final pull in for the ticket and so on.

But I got the impression Plymouth had issues also with the fact that handing out the ticket is discretionary, and Erin has summed that up perfectly - it is quite fair, and it's not the organisers problem if your horse isn't up to scratch.
 
Don't know what catagory the OP was competing in so can't comment on her personal circumstances. For me personally as I said in the above post, it gives me something to aspire to and learn off the top riders.
 
carefreegirl said:
Surely tho if you are good enough to qualify at one of the shows then you are good enough for HOYS ?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily - it means that you're the best from what's actually in the qualifying round......the reason I don't do showing. As far as I'm concerned, my horses are perfect and nobody is going to tell me otherwise!

TBH, my elderly gelding is pretty average, probably due to my own substandard riding! But we've won classes at dressage which have qualified us for things like the Trailblazers finals. I've never bothered going as I know that the people there will be sooo much better than me. I think that when you qualify for the finals of some competitions or something as elitist as HOYS, it's a completely different league. So while I can understand the OP's disappointment and frustration, I can also understand the judge not wanting to place a horse in a class where it is totally out of place.
 
much-jittering said:
Take as an example, I'm involved with NF ponies. Until this year, Olympia has held the Baileys Supreme M&M Championship. Until 2009 when Buster did his thing, that had never been won by a forester. As far as I know, this was helped in no small way by the fact that there was only 1 ticket available at NF specific breed classes, and that was at the Breed Show. Don't 100% quote me, as a bit of my mind thinks there may have been a 2nd way, but otherwise it was down to tickets in M&M mixed classes if at all, where all the larges are in together or at the very least the foresters and the connies go together. So in 2009 there was one forester to a couple at least of each welsh, dales, fell etc.
Click to expand...
Originally, it was a champion only from a mixed qualifier that went to Olympia.

There has been a breed qualifier since 1985 (or 6?) as it was found that some breeds did not get through to the showcase at Olympia in the previous years.

From then on, everyone had at least 1 chance to get there through the breed round - and also at any of the mixed qualifiers too.

Remember Peveril Peterboro? - he went 7 times & sometimes went from open comp (was placed several times too), meaning there were 2 foresters (or more) in the final. There were 3 in 2003 = Farriers Drummer Boy, Sabinas Gold Sovereign (by Peterboro) & Wayland Cranberry.
Willoway Ponies (with Caroline Large) did very well there too in the early days, as well as Fijal ponies and many others :)

Its not all one sided :) You just needed more info about qualifying - and previous placings :) Hope the above is of help :)
 
Search For a star is like any showing / qualifying class, you pay your money & you present yourself to be judged, the judges decision is final but you have to be good enough to qualify. A few years ago I entered my local qualifier, won, acted on the advice that was offered. Went to the SEIB HOYs training day at Arena UK (which many of the qualifying winners didn't bother to go to) again acted on the further advice which was offered & went on to HOYS & won my class. The judges said I was the best prepared.
This year I went back to my local venue to watch the Search For A Star classes. I was amazed at how many there were in every class. At least this venue split the class into 2 sections & brought back the top 3 from each section. However I was also appalled at the number of equines in every class that were absolutely unprepared / not ready for their showing class. This included weak conformation, lack of condition, incorrect turnout, poor riding, insufficient / poor schooling, bad manners (riders & horses). The majority of the classes are for amateurs, though I'm sure you do still get a few dishonest people who cheat! I think it is only the racehorse to riding horse that anyone can enter & it seems many people are deliberately visiting race yards & seeking out potential HOYs horses specifically for this class.
 
Mari said:
Search For a star is like any showing / qualifying class, you pay your money & you present yourself to be judged, the judges decision is final but you have to be good enough to qualify. A few years ago I entered my local qualifier, won, acted on the advice that was offered. Went to the SEIB HOYs training day at Arena UK (which many of the qualifying winners didn't bother to go to) again acted on the further advice which was offered & went on to HOYS & won my class. The judges said I was the best prepared.
This year I went back to my local venue to watch the Search For A Star classes. I was amazed at how many there were in every class. At least this venue split the class into 2 sections & brought back the top 3 from each section. However I was also appalled at the number of equines in every class that were absolutely unprepared / not ready for their showing class. This included weak conformation, lack of condition, incorrect turnout, poor riding, insufficient / poor schooling, bad manners (riders & horses). The majority of the classes are for amateurs, though I'm sure you do still get a few dishonest people who cheat! I think it is only the racehorse to riding horse that anyone can enter & it seems many people are deliberately visiting race yards & seeking out potential HOYs horses specifically for this class.
Click to expand...

Gives the horse a good job after it's done racing- I see no problem!

If they weren't good enough, they weren't good enough. It's sad, but the way it works.
 
We also have done search for a star (ROR) ex race horse class for the last 2years, and this class has become hijacked by placing a producers on top of your horse to get a place.Giving the amateur little chance in this class.

Having been moved up the line from 4th to 2nd in the final line up to be told you can have the 2nd rosette but not the ticket no comments where made to any other horse & rider that the judge's0 where only giving out 1 ticket until the line up was in place.. Why did they not place 1st then 3rd downwards miss 2nd.The indoor arena was over 30 degrees with no air movement, even ride judges had to take drinks breaks. Would your horse be at their best ? I dont think so.

Having been told buy every ride judge this year both local and county what a nice ride and one saying I could ride him all day, its so heart breaking that the judge rips from under you your life long dream. As amateurs we don't have the money to buy are way to HOYS like most. This series is aimed at the amateur to give them a chance to go to HOYS and rub shoulders with the producers and pro's and pick up hints and tips on the way.Search for a star is not helping the amateurs it seem like a money making thing. 30+ in some class at £45 you do the maths.

The way this series is being run, how they can say they are promoting amateurs is beyond words. Yes some need lots of help to get ready horse,clothing,tack, turnout etc so help them tell them what they need to do don't let them walk out the ring without telling them how to get better.The judges owe it to them after paying their entry fee.
 
I disagree, it is the competitors responsibility to ensure they are prepared for the class they have entered, not the judges. If, as you say, there are so many in the class the judges could not possibly go down the line & tell everyone what they need to do to improve. There are numerous showing clinics for this, especially before the 'season' starts & you can always ask a showing producer if they will do a show training / assessment lesson with you. In the ROR classes it is the horse that is being judged as an amateur. It doesn't have to have an amateur rider on board. Professional riders often win because they & their horses are better prepared for the class. They can be beaten but you have to work at it. Don't forget you are being judged against what else is there on the day. Some days you will be the best, other days you won't. Some days you get a judge that likes your horse other days you won't. That's showing for you.
 
FAO Lolo I don't have a problem either with people hand picking ex racers for a new career & I don't have a problem with it being professional showing people. My first horse, a 2 yr old tb, was an ex racer & I would have loved ROR classes for her but we had to compete against all the other show horses & she was the only ex racer.
 
I haven't done search for a star things but remember distinctly as a kid still on ponies missing my HOYS qualifier even though I won a class because the judge didn't want to send any of the ponies in the class that day as they weren't (in the judges eyes) of a suitable standard. Fair enough. Going to HOYS is a massive deal and I think they should try to keep the standard as high as possible.

Even at 14 I could understand the logic of it.
 
Its at the judges discretion (hope thats the right word) if he gives them out or not!!

and jesstickle is right about keeping standards HOYS is about the best of the best!!
 
I was tempted to try one of these this year but think I might give it a miss now if its as busy as you say! I do agree on the fact that it is meant to be an amateur thing, and its all very well for the judge to say your not HOYS standard, but to be fair if its aimed for amateurs then you shouldnt have to be the exact HOYS standard as the normal showing classes, otherwise you may aswell just try to qualify for the normal classes!
 
I groomed for a friend here a few years ago with her horse (show hunter class) and it was a nightmare - brilliant experience for the horse though.
First of all, it was hot. Ridiculously so!! :p And the class started at least 45 minutes late.
Secondly, we were told that "the judge doesn't like chestnuts" - lo and behold, got in the class, the ONLY chestnut!! ;)
The class should have been split into 2 - there must have been 40 horses, minimum in the arena, it was so cramped, with horses bucking, kicking, panicking here there and everywhere. The warm up area was half the size with as many horses in it, so we barely got chance to warm up.
There was 2 ride judges doing half a class each - surely their riding and opinions would have differed? The ride judge for my friends horse rode like a kicking sack of spuds whereas the other ride judge had all the horses going lovely.
They spent very little time looking at each individual horse and even less time placing and to be honest I got the feeling they'd decided who they were going to pick before the class began.
All in all, it was nothing more than a day out to be honest, but it was a good experience for the horse to be in a class of that many.
K x
 
Couple of clarifications needed here ..

In the SFAS AMATEUR classes, the rules are really strict.

However,in the ex racer class, this is to promote EX RACERS - NOT AMATEURS!!!!

So, of course pro riders will be doing it. We have contested this a couple of times with ex racers who have both won in excess of £45k on the racecourse. Not worldbeaters, but proper ex racers, not just horses who didn't want to run. And who had a full racing career before coming to the show ring.

The standard of SFAS (in my view having watched it since its inception) has dropped big time. The top of the line with the well prepared horses is still good - but many of the others have poor conformation, the riders simply have NO idea of what is required for a show class and what to do in the ring, and have poorly behaved horses. Many of them are not even of the right type to do a class like this. DO you really think that having a horse with poor conformation representing the best of the amateurs at HOYS is a good idea? Or one that cannot even go on the bit?

SHow horses are not RIDDEN by a judge in the way that your instructor would get on and ride. They are expected to GIVE the judge the ride without being asked. If there are two judges riding in these classes, usually one does the top of the line and one does the other. THe lower part of the line up will rarely give an amazing ride. THese are expereinced judges and they can usually tell from the go round what horses are the best and pull these up to the top of the line up. Occasionally ,one of the lower horses gives a great ride, and i have seen the other judge then go down the line and ride the other horse as well and it can then come up the line.

It is clear in the rules that if the judges (who, let's face it, usually have over 80 years of showing at top level between them so do know a thing or two) don't think a horse is good enough to go to HOYS, then they are likely to be right.

They don't WANT to disappoint people - I am sure they feel awful about it. But they would not be doing their job if they pretended that someone should go to the final, then run the risk of getting slated by the two judges at HOYS who would have to say what is good and bad about each horse.

I am so fed up with showing getting a bad name from people who just do not understand what it is all about. Take the time to go to teach ins, lectures, or even just chat to a judge who looks approachable. You will learn lots and come to realise that there is a lot more to it than just paying your entry fee :)

Going to HOYS is a privilege for ALL show riders. It is not a foregone conclusion that every pro rider gets their horse to HOYS every year - trust me!!! So why anyone else thinks it should be a god given right simply becaue they area amateur, is totally beond me!!!
 
Here here FMM.

I'm not sure why people think they should be able to go to HOYS just because they enter a class. People don't assume they can go round Badminton without suitable prep work so why would you be able to qualify for HOYS just by turning up.

It seems to be the opinion that producing a show horse is some how easier than any other equine athlete. I really think people lack an appreciation of the work that really goes in to top level show animals.

I don't even show any more but I thoroughly enjoyed my show ponies when I had them. If you take some time to understand the etiquette and protocol of showing, and put real effort in to producing a nice horse it's a great part of the equestrian world to be involved in. But no, just like any other horsey sport, you can't expect to qualify without making any real effort to understand what is required
 
As others as have already said the RoR class is not confined to amateurs. The standards in these classes are incredibly high and are beginning to be dominated by producers. Many of the horses who qualify can and do go on to compete at HOYS as hacks or Riding Horses.
I have no problem with any of this and as someone has said it's another avenue for ex-racers to go down when their racing career is finished.

What does concern me - and I suspect this may be starting to happen already is Mr X seeing a lovely young TB and thinks - ooh that is HOYS material lets stick it in training for few months, run it in a crappy race and then bring it out as an RoR. As the owner of a horse who spent 7 years in racing and now competes in RoR classes that is an anathema!
 
plymouth said:
We also have done search for a star (ROR) ex race horse class for the last 2years, and this class has become hijacked by placing a producers on top of your horse to get a place.Giving the amateur little chance in this class.

This series is aimed at the amateur to give them a chance to go to HOYS and rub shoulders with the producers and pro's and pick up hints and tips on the way.
Click to expand...


This is where you are totally wrong, and I suspect you have been confusing yourself for the last two years and therefore feeling let down by the series. Racehorse 2 Riding Horse is not part of SFAS, but the classes are held at the same qualifiers and it has the same sponsor (SEIB)

It is NOT an "amateur only" competition, it is a HOYS class for ex-racehorses, in the same vein as coloureds/cobs/etc compete at HOYS for a national final so to speak ...and so as such one would expect the creme de la creme to enter. No where does it state it is intended for amateurs. The top 10 horses at HOYS are the representative of the best retrained racehorses (in showing terms) in the country - we should, as fans of the "type" - be applauding and celebrating these horses and insisting on the best of the best, not something lesser of quality becuase a competior feels they should be entitled to ride at HOYS. Its not something you can be entitled to - it is an honour that is earnt through a hell of a lot of hard work, blood sweat and tears and yes money too, but that is a fact of life and to represent your sport at top level requires financial input.


Just to reiterate - there is NOTHING in the eligibility section of the rules even "hinting" that it is amateur based:

5. ELIGIBILITY OF ENTRANTS
5.1. No entrant who has been convicted of an
equestrian offence and whose conviction is
unspent may participate in the Competition.
6. ELIGIBILITY OF ANIMALS
6.1. This Competition is only for thoroughbred
horses (as determined in accordance with
paragraph 6.6) (“Thoroughbred”) that have
previously run in a race under the rules of an
approved racing authority recognised as
such by the British Horseracing Authority
(“Recognised Racing Authority”).
6.2. The following animals are not eligible to be
exhibited at the Competition:
6.2.1.any stallion or entire;
6.2.2.any horse that has been placed 1st in any
previous Racehorse to Riding Horse Show
Championship at Horse of the Year Show
(“HOYS”);
6.2.3.any horse that has not run in any race
(including point to point, national hunt or on
the flat) under the rules of a Recognised
Racing Authority;
6.2.4.any horse under 148 cm tall;
6.2.5.any horse under 4 years old.
6.2.6.any horse that is not a Thoroughbred.
Click to expand...


Edit sorry, other people have since said the same thing better than me!!

minesadouble - you pick up on a valid point. A few years ago the RoR ruling was that a horse had to have been in training for three months - which had to be changed due to an awful lot of nice thoroughbreds being "in training" with a close friend of the owner for exactly three months ... you get my gist! I only know of a few instances where the horse in question has cantered around the members race of the local P2P and pulled up shortly ..... but as FMM has touched on, a lot of the top horses at the moment have got quite prolific racing experiences under the belts.
 
Last edited:
I love SFAS and if you could do it twice on the same horse I'd have another go.


My mare isn't really county standard and I tried 3 times to qualify for the RC show horse. the 1st couple of times we were in with a shout but just let down by turnout & her greeness. the judges were quite upfront about where we went wrong.

the 3rd time, everything was spot on and we were 2nd and qualified for HOYS. Everything after that was a bonus, but because I prepared the mare so she could be ridden anywhere by anyone and give them a great ride we were moved up from 9th to 5th in the final.

I think if the standard isn't high enough at the qualifiers then qualification shouldn't be automatic, but I would want to know what to do to improve things for next time in your place OP.
 
FMM said:
SHow horses are not RIDDEN by a judge in the way that your instructor would get on and ride. They are expected to GIVE the judge the ride without being asked. If there are two judges riding in these classes, usually one does the top of the line and one does the other. THe lower part of the line up will rarely give an amazing ride. THese are expereinced judges and they can usually tell from the go round what horses are the best and pull these up to the top of the line up. Occasionally ,one of the lower horses gives a great ride, and i have seen the other judge then go down the line and ride the other horse as well and it can then come up the line.
Click to expand...

I understand that point - however, every horse that the male judge rode (including my friends) worked awfully for him - now, my friend's mare doesn't really get on well with men and we didn't go hoping to be placed at all, it was just for experience - but some rode by the male judge still got placed (whereas other horses who went beautifully weren't).
It seemed to me a complete jumble of placings, there was no "top" and "lower" line, horses were being pulled from here, there and everywhere, the judges kept having to talk to each other, send horses back into the line up, bring others out, change their mind it was like neither of them knew what exactly they were doing (although I'm sure they were very experienced!)
However, it was good to go, great experience and a nice day out :)
K x
 
Well written FMM. Two friends of mine watched nearly all the classes at Badgeworth SFAS last weekend. When I asked them how the day went their replies were as follows, there were very few true to type horses in the classes entered, the standard of some of the riding was awfull, as was the turnout of some of the competitors & grooms. And the manners of some of the riders was appaulling, even worse was the behaviour of 1 of the competitors mothers? who came storming into the ring when they were advised that their horse was not up to standard for HOYS. Surely to compete at HOYS the horses & riders have to be of the right level, with a great future ahead, or what is the point!
 
Just want to say that I agree 100% with FMM - And do any of you remember numbersixvalverde? He won the national. Is now competing as a riding horse in ireland ;)
 
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