Section c showing stuck!

[Bombaybuddy]

I have a section c, gelding. He is 13.2 but on his passport He is un registered and have no trace of bloodlines. Next year I want to start doing some unaffiliated showing shows and I don't know if I should show him under a part bred cause I have no evidence he is fully sec c or shall I just show him as a sec c, even know I'm almost certain he's fully sec c. And if I go about registering him do I have to get the vet out for DNA testing etc? Please no nasty comments.

 

[Equi]

Unless you know the parents, and they are registered and DNA typed, you can't DNA test to prove he is 100% Sec C - there is no test for that.

Some low key local shows might allow you to show without any registration, but most will need at least the names of the parents and might not let you. Honestly, you don't have 100% proof he is C so if i was you i would show as part bred, just for the experience.

 

[ester]

Some smaller shows will say need not be registered but must be true to type. Honestly no one has ever asked to see registration details though so I'd be tempted just to go if he is so typey no one will question it

 

[Crackerz]

Most local shows around here require M&M's to be registered. So if that's the case in your area you'll need to plait etc. and show as part bred


As Equi says, you cannot register a pony unless you know who the parents are and the WPCS have their DNA on file to compare to.

 

[ester]

I have never ever been asked to show the pony's passport though, I just cannot see anyone being removed from the ring if their pony doesn't look out of place. I have even stewarded for some particularly 'interesting' looking types but as it is a local, friendly show it would be pretty confrontational of the judge to say are you sure? I need to see the passport please. And unless it was really untypey and then won the class, when some PC mum might put a complaint in I don't see it coming up as an issue really. Any pics OP?

 

[Crackerz]

I help run a local show, we have experienced judges who would ask breeding in conversation. There are normally plenty of other classes for unreg ponies to enter so I would be annoyed if people floated rules on purpose!

 

[ester]

I have helped run plenty of local show myself, much more issue with miniature Shetland people Of course they might ask breeding in a conversation but if someone says they aren't sure they also aren't going to throw out the competitor. I just think if it does look completely like a C it is going to look odd trimmed and plaited and shown as say a shp, although some less typey ones actually do that very well at higher levels. I'm usually a big rule stickler but for some reason not for this, I think mostly just because local shows are supposed be fun, if you want to take it seriously with all the rules you are competing at a higher affiliated level. Though then some of the rules are random, like no spurs in veterans even if for their type it would normally be compulsory

 

[conniegirl]

Sorry but if it isn't registered it shouldn't be in the M&m class.
I have challenged unregistered ponies before and as a judge it is disheartening to have a pony that goes very well but have to place it last or ask it to leave because it doesn't fulfill the requirements for the class.

 

[ester]

I'm curious, how did you know they were unregistered?

 

[conniegirl]

Generaly they lack type, or on speaking to the rider to ask which breed (I will often do this for every pony in the class even if blatantly obvious which breed, similar to asking age) they normally say something like "we think section C"

 

[ester]

Ah, that's why I questioned if the OP's was very typey or not I've competed against and stewarded many who I think look a bit odd but then they don't place anyway so they've just had a nice outing

 

[honetpot]

Generaly they lack type, or on speaking to the rider to ask which breed (I will often do this for every pony in the class even if blatantly obvious which breed, similar to asking age) they normally say something like "we think section C"

I find that strange, if you can not look at it and know what breed it is not true to its breed type and therefore how ever nice it is should not do well.
I have never heard a judge ever ask as what bred is it when judging, and that goes all through the levels right up to HOYS, Olympia qualifiers. I have known judges get it wrong, they usually ask after placing's how is it bred i.e. stallion and they find out what they thought was a connie is a NF.
At local level there are usually classes for M&M type, but there are so many classes I would look at what type of pony it is, SHP,RP and have a go at some of those.

 

[LinzyD]

There are some really good points in this thread, but based on over 20 years experience of showing Section Cs, here is my recommendation to you, OP:

1) Don't show the pony as a part-bred. Part-bred classes are generally for plaited riding pony (including show pony or show hunter pony) types that may have as little as 12.5% native pony blood, and/or Arab blood depending on the class definition. These ponies are fine limbed with refined features and have a lower and often longer action than pure native ponies, and are shown plaited and trimmed with pulled and banged tails. Unless your pony is a very light Section C that could be presented as a SHP you'll be completely out of place in this class.

2) Show the pony in any Mountain and Moorland or Native Breeds or Welsh Breeds class that does not explicitly state in the schedule that ponies must be registered with the relevant breed society and/or that is not affiliated to the main showing societies and qualifiers: NPS, BSPS, WPCS, HOYS. In most instances you will NOT be asked to provide the pony's breeding details on the entry form or at any point during the show. If the rules do not state that ponies must be registered you are entitled to compete and are not breaking any rules. If the judge happens to ask you the pony's breeding out of interest, just say Section C and you can't remember his bloodlines. It's not the least bit unusual not to be able to remember a pony's parentage, especially with all those Welsh names.

3) There are classes for unregistered M&M ponies at some of the major championship shows and within some of the affiliated showing societies that operate at the level below BSPS, NPS, HOYS. Equifest has classes specifically for unregistered M&Ms. TSR has classes for unregistered M&Ms, and also has regional riders championships where you can be riding anything. There are also lots of others that operate on a regional and local basis that don't require ponies to be registered.

4) If you want to take a chance, then you could... if you wanted... enter any unaffiliated local show that does state that the class is for registered M&M ponies, in the knowledge that officially you would be breaking the rules, but unofficially it is unlikely at most of these shows that anyone would know one way or another whether the pony is registered or not. I am not advocating rule-breaking, simply stating that at many of these shows breeding details are not asked for on the entry forms and WPCS registration number is not required.

5) There are also lots of other non-breed specific classes at local shows that you could have a go at. A good idea would be to go and watch at a popular local riding club show, maybe enter one class, watch for the rest of the day, and get an idea of which other classes your pony could do well in, e.g. equitation, best ridden pony, riding club pony, best ridden gelding, etc. Some shows literally provide a class for everyone out there.

If you would like to pm me for any information on any of the showing societies mentioned, or send me a photo of your pony and ask any questions at all, I'd be happy to advise. I have shown Section Cs for over 20 years to HOYS and Olympia level and I also judge.

ETS, I hope none of this comes across as condescending. I'm just trying to be really clear about all your options as there are one or two conflicting views through the thread. And whatever you do.... have fun!