Sedating to have feet done

MrsElle

MrsElle

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Skinny Minnie is fine with me and OH, lets me snuggle up to her when she is laid down sleeping and lets me pick her feet up with no problems.

She is a b*gger with the farrier though, and we had to abort the other day as she got to the point where she was swinging round to kick him wherever he went.

The farrier is going to try again next week but has asked me to ring the vet and get some sedation first. What do they use to sedate nowadays? The vet won't be coming out, just want something to give her beforehand.

Also, how can I get her to accept strangers? She actually gets worse every time she sees the vet or the farrier, not better. As said she is happy and very relaxed with OH and I, but with other people she is a bit of a nightmare. I am also unsure if she is generally scared (not knowing her history), or if she is just being a cow as I am usually keeping and eye on the vet/farrier/her back end so don't look at her facial expression. She is getting a bit of a reputation locally.....

She is happier with women than with men (except OH, don't know what that says about him!), but can still be a sod with women she doesn't know, or the female vet.

Any ideas? Or do I have to accept that we will have to sedate her for every farrier or vet visit? Strangely she was fine with my son's girlfriend who is an equine dentist, Skinny Minnie let her have a good look in her mouth (without equipment) and wasn't bothered at all.
 
Ive had this problem before and ended up with the vet having to come out to sedate as they wouldnt prescribe him sedation for me to give him. Things may have changed as this was a few years back and lots of suppliments that have a claming affect available.

I couldnt keep this up obviously, so when he would have a small feed or haynet i used to get as many people as were willing to pick his hooves up and tap the hoofpick againist them, his 'struggling' was still there but as soon as he relaxed his leg his hoof was returned to the floor.

I could not get near his hoofs without the food distraction, being from Gypsies i dont know what he had been put through to have them done in the past. He was also scared of men too which didnt help as all the farriers availble were men!

Eventually, he got much better so there is hope.
 
Not had the problem personally, but a friend of mine has to have a vet out to IV sedate her mare for the farrier - I think the vet would probably recommend sedalin ( ACP based) or possibly, Domosedan (sp?) gel, which I have used to sedate for travelling - you need to be really careful with this as it works through absorbtion (placed under the tongue) rather than ingestion, so gloves on and avoid getting any on you!
 
My old TB used to have to be sedated every time farrier came otherwise he just couldn't safely do him. I used Sedalin which was provided by vet, doesn't sedate them heavily just "takes the edge off".
 
It is weird Cobmum because OH and I can pick her feet up with no problem. She is absolutely fine. It is just when the farrier/vet/men in general come near her she goes wappy and is getting worse.

Tamsinkb, the Domosedan (or whatever it is called!) is what the farrier advised, I have to ring the vets in the morning to see if we can have some. The vets know what she is like with either male or female vets, they have to sedate her to get near her.

More than one person has advised me to get her shot, but with us she is the kindest and most gentle girl ever, totally different to how she is with others.
 
I have a mare who is (or was) very tricky for the farrier. She is not nasty and doesn't try to kick, but she was very nervy and then sometimes is just impatient. She would pull back, stamp her feet down, go up, swing legs about etc.

After 2 years of owning her and using the same excellent farrier, we have just about cracked it. She is cold shod (doesn't like the smoke) and I practice hammering on her feet fairly regularly as the nails going in is her least favourite part. I hold her myself and she has a haynet and a lot of treats, but it gets the job done and is now not horribly stressful like it used to be.

We tried sedalin and dormosedan gel but to be honest, they didn't seem to make much difference. The only thing that has worked is patience, practice and bribery!
 
devilwoman said:
My old TB used to have to be sedated every time farrier came otherwise he just couldn't safely do him. I used Sedalin which was provided by vet, doesn't sedate them heavily just "takes the edge off".
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The farrier asked for the Domesedan, he said the Sedalin wouldn't be strong enough to make her quiet enough for him to do her feet. She wasn't just getting agitated and snatching, she was out for his blood, spinning round to wherever he was to kick out at him.

She is such a little witch, but I love her!
 
I had to get filly Rose sedated recently to get her feet trimmed, she's OK with her fronts but a total nightmare with her hinds despite me and the trimmer working on getting her comfortable with having her hinds handled. She really truly is so difficult with them, she's 16.2 now with hind legs like a flippin' kangaroo, golly can she kick. So I spoke to the vet and get got me a tube of Sedalin with the advice 'use the whole tube' We did and it worked. It's not ideal but Rose's hinds were in a poor state and in desperate need of attention. It couldn't wait any longer. In the meantime I'm still trying to find a good method to get to her hinds without being booted into orbit. I can brush her legs as far down as her hocks, ditto I can run my hands down to her hocks, any further than that and it's fireworks.

Poor Skinny Minnie, I wonder what she's been through to be so suspicious of strangers? I don't think they get like that purely out of being awkward. I had a pony like that when I was younger, it turned out he'd been beaten to a pulp by a bloke with a length of hosepipe.

So, yes, Sedalin works as an emergency measure. I had her trimmed out on the yard, and I spread a mass of straw on the ground just in case she tottered over (she was very wobbly).
 
The Domo-gel is a really effective sedative - apparently uses the same 'stuff' as the IV sedation. It allowed me and some farm hands load (in a most improper way ) my 17.2 stress head TB when he had a massive joint infection that the vet had put an immovable dressing on from hoof to stifle - he'd lost the plot plus he couldnt flex his leg to get up the ramp, so we basically picked him up and carried him on and he didn't bat an eyelid - and he trotted up the ramp on the way home 2 weeks later, so he was obviously in a 'happy place' with the domo-gel!!
 
Hollywoozle, I think it is going to be a long road, but doubt this farrier will stick around to see it through. When she was a bag of bones she didn't have the energy to fight, but the stronger and better she has become, the worse she has become with others.

I'm sure we will get there eventually, and I have to keep reminding myself that she has come an awful long way in the last 6 months, and perhaps I shouldn't expect too much of her yet :)
 
I have one like this.
Have used two vet practices locally but neither will prescribe without coming out to inject. Have discussed ACP/Sedalin with both but neither have been keen.
Have now got it down to a fine art of him having just enough to have it done but come round quite quickly afterwards and we just work on his feet-handling ongoing in the meantime...he's getting much better now and so hope to be able to do without sedation before too long...farrier always gives him a good old trim when he gets to grips with him as he knows i'm paying a fortune for it and tries to leave it as long as he can...his feet were pretty bad when i got him as a rising 2 yo but farrier said last time he came out they were 'tenfold better', so it will have been worth it in the end...
 
Gala, at least the Not-So-Skinny one is only 14.2 ish and hasn't got very long legs! No wonder Rose needed sedating.

I do think that SM will come good, she is so affectionate with us, and so at ease, that I am sure that one day she will trust others to handle her and treat her too :)

Tamsinkb - that conjours up a strange image, people carrying a huge horse into a lorry!

I will see which sedative the vet suggests, he knows her and what she can be like, so he is best qualified to decide.
 
CCW, not sure what area of Wales you are in, but I am hoping our vet will prescribe something for me to give her. Trying to get the farrier and vet out at the same time is going to be nigh on impossible!

The trouble is she has terrible feet, we think she is a TB x NF and unfortunately she seems to have inherited the TB hoof. The others have had their feet done this week and just had a minimal rasp, but SM's are in a shocking state.
 
MrsElle said:
Hollywoozle, I think it is going to be a long road, but doubt this farrier will stick around to see it through. When she was a bag of bones she didn't have the energy to fight, but the stronger and better she has become, the worse she has become with others.

I'm sure we will get there eventually, and I have to keep reminding myself that she has come an awful long way in the last 6 months, and perhaps I shouldn't expect too much of her yet :)
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I must say that we are very fortunate in our farrier, as he has been extremely patient about it and I know our previous farrier would've upped and left. Sorry to hear that you are having these struggles but fingers crossed you'll come through it, just keep at it. :) In our case the sedaline didn't really do anything but the dormosedan did seem to make her more dopey, it just didn't quite stop her. Definitely worth a shot if you haven't tried them though as some people have had great success using these.

I hope it works out for you, just keep at it and the perseverance will be worth it!
 
I am surprised no one has suggested BAREFOOT, you will be feeding a low sugar, no cereal diet with added magnesium, which should help with her temperament, and can buy a pair of front boots if she needs them.
My boy was perfectly calm with one [ultra laid back farrier], but was a bit uptight with another the first time he shod him, but that passed as the man took a lot of time with him, and no tempers were lost. This farrier mentioned he objected to his hind legs being raised too high.
Of course, I no longer shoe, and can't imagine why I once thought it was essential.
 
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We had a colt which was exactly the same. Great for us at home but a nightmare for the farrier. He was ok ish to trim fronts but no way for back. Had a IH friend work with him, 2 weeks later and lots of strangers being around him he was perfect.

Personally I would go down this route rather than sedate, unless absolutely necessary .
 
Miss L Toe said:
I am surprised no one has suggested BAREFOOT, you will be feeding a low sugar, no cereal diet with added magnesium, which should help with her temperament, and can buy a pair of front boots if she needs them.
My boy was perfectly calm with one [ultra laid back farrier], but was a bit uptight with another the first time he shod him, but that passed as the man took a lot of time with him, and no tempers were lost. This farrier mentioned he objected to his hind legs being raised too high.
Of course, I no longer shoe, and can't imagine why I once thought it was essential.
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She has never been shod, none of mine are, doesn't get any hard feed as she is just on grazing and hay in winter :)
 
fizzer said:
We had a colt which was exactly the same. Great for us at home but a nightmare for the farrier. He was ok ish to trim fronts but no way for back. Had a IH friend work with him, 2 weeks later and lots of strangers being around him he was perfect.

Personally I would go down this route rather than sedate, unless absolutely necessary .
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Think we are going to have to sedate this time as she really does need her hinds doing desparately. The farrier has a three to four week waiting list, so he is doing me a favour coming one evening when he has finished work so we can try to get them done.

I might have to start grabbing random people off the street and getting them to touch her legs and stroke her............... :D
 
my cob is exactly the same as your mare-i can do anything with him but he will not co-operate for anyone else. it took 6months for my YO to get to lead him in from the field ! hes very mistrusting and if he sees the farriers van he goes straight to the back of the stable and hides! he has an iv sedation cos the others just dont have not enough effect he can still kick anyone within 6 feet in any direction! good luck mines 7 and cant see him ever changing:rolleyes:
 
MrsElle said:
She has never been shod, none of mine are, doesn't get any hard feed as she is just on grazing and hay in winter :)
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Oh right, well why don't you just run a rasp http://www.davewilsonequestrian.com/double-ended-farriers-rasp-126-p.asp round the forward edges every couple of days. This will stop the toe growing long and she will get more settled to a daily stable type routine.
If the feet are not satisfactory you don't need to feed "Hard Feed" as in oats, but she needs vitamins and minerals, and you need something like Fast Fibre or a non molassed chaff [Dengie], to carry it.
She may be objecting because she is being trimmed to hard [in her opinion] and is footy after the event. If I can do it [oap with wonky leg], I am sure you can, keep the hoof low off the ground, and make sure she does not feel "trapped" or "gripped" as this may cause a panic.
I hardly ever touch the hind feet if I can do 20 - 30 mins on a road/track every day, when out on grass, I need to rasp every week, but at the moment it is every second day, as I have let the toes get too long.
 
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archiepoo said:
my cob is exactly the same as your mare-i can do anything with him but he will not co-operate for anyone else. it took 6months for my YO to get to lead him in from the field ! hes very mistrusting and if he sees the farriers van he goes straight to the back of the stable and hides! he has an iv sedation cos the others just dont have not enough effect he can still kick anyone within 6 feet in any direction! good luck mines 7 and cant see him ever changing:rolleyes:
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She is 4, and she and I clicked immediately. I can do anything with her as you can with your lad, and I find it quite humbling that after a bad start she chose to trust me. The only time she had a wobble was when I was leading her from one field to another and she didn't want to go through the gateway. She went up on two legs and I just told her she was an idiot and carried on. Turns out she is worried about the stream that flows through a pipe under the gateway. She trusts me to walk her over it safely now (although you can't see anything, it is well buried!) and has just about got to the point where OH can walk her over too. I wouldn't let anyone else walk her over without hat, gloves and a body protector though!

Hopefully we can get this foot issue sorted, otherwise she will be like yours, but it doesn't really matter, she is one in a million :D
 
My vet used to come out to inject Clydie, who didn't want to have her back feet trimmed, then after a few visits gave us Sedalin, which we had to judge carefully, too much and she fell over, too little and it didn't touch her. The farrier, who was very patient, thought that she had been badly treated by a farrier in the past. She did improve a bit over the 4 yrs that we had her and farrier was beginning to say that he thought we would be able to do her without the sedalin, but then unfortunately she had to be pts.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Oh right, well why don't you just run a rasp http://www.davewilsonequestrian.com/double-ended-farriers-rasp-126-p.asp round the forward edges every couple of days. This will stop the toe growing long and she will get more settled to a daily stable type routine.
If the feet are not satisfactory you don't need to feed "Hard Feed" as in oats, but she needs vitamins and minerals, and you need something like Fast Fibre or a non molassed chaff [Dengie], to carry it.
She may be objecting because she is being trimmed to hard [in her opinion] and is footy after the event. If I can do it [oap with wonky leg], I am sure you can, keep the hoof low off the ground, and make sure she does not feel "trapped" or "gripped" as this may cause a panic.
I hardly touch the hind feet if I can do 20 - 30 mins on a road/track every day
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That is a good idea actually, as she lets me do her feet. I can just keep on top of them a bit between farrier visits :) Her fronts look pretty good, but one of her hinds really needs doing. They have stoney areas in the field and have to cross a stoney area to get to the stream to drink, so that also helps. As stated, she will let me do what I want to her, just no one else can get near.
 
My new Irish is the same with his back legs, fine for me but not with anyone else. We gave him a large dose of sedalin so that we could try clipping his back legs but in the end we had to twitch him as well with a piece of hosepipe which worked great.
 
Would your farrier be willing to let you do all the work under his direction if you paid him for the work anyway? He can feed her treats while you rasp away and perhaps eventually get her to trust him enough to let him do it and save your back! I know it sounds odd but she would start associating him with good things instead of stressful events and the trimming would get done under supervision.
 
Fab idea Plantete, I bet the farrier would jump at the chance to be away from the sharp end. If he can talk you through it, it really is just rubbing a rasp around. I used to do the same with my mare when she was barefoot, as my trimmer wasn't local. She would just check the balance every now and again.
 
Would your farrier be willing to just call when passing to give her a treat and a fuss, or make a fuss of her when he comes to do your others but not touch her a few times, The poor girl obviously has issues with strangers so he needs to become 'not a stranger'. It seems such a shame to rush down the sedation route when him putting in a little time would save so much more time (his) and money (yours) in the future. I really feel for you because it is such a worry when they are naughty but even more so when you know they have issues that cause it rather than just being bloody minded.
 
MrsElle said:
It is weird Cobmum because OH and I can pick her feet up with no problem. She is absolutely fine. It is just when the farrier/vet/men in general come near her she goes wappy and is getting worse.

Tamsinkb, the Domosedan (or whatever it is called!) is what the farrier advised, I have to ring the vets in the morning to see if we can have some. The vets know what she is like with either male or female vets, they have to sedate her to get near her.

More than one person has advised me to get her shot, but with us she is the kindest and most gentle girl ever, totally different to how she is with others.
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I have exactly the same issue with my mare. The problem is that if they're clever, like yours seems to be, they figure out when it's the farrier, and when it's just someone picking feet out. (Mine is a complete toad with the farrier, and it's not due to previous trauma, but to a desire to throw all her toys out of the pram. But lets anyone save the farrier pick her feet out or wave a rasp around.)

We cracked it (well, managed to shoe on sedalin rather than vet sedation) with A LOT of patience and the farrier taking his protective chaps off for a bit, as she would associate someone wearing these with farriery... To do this you need a farrier who is willing to spend the time with them. Unfortunately while mine solved the behaviour problem, he b*ggered up her feet, so I had to change to my old farrier, who is lovely but whom she inexplicably hates. She does seem to have improved though, even with him.

Some people have had good results with Richard Maxwell. But while he worked magic to teach my horse to load, he has not managed to sort my friend's horse's farrier problems (he mare is even worse than mine to shoe and as she's a 17.2 warmblood to my mare's 16h, definitely needs to be knocked out for the farrier for safey reasons!)

Anyway, best of luck, would be intrigued to know how you get on. It can be done, though in the process I often felt like turning my horse to glue.... ;)
 
I have had same problem, but fortunately have also had farriers with NH skills and loads of experience handling young horses, and if they are prepared to take the time it takes, he was ok. (I did sometimes pay extra because it took 2 hours or so to do a trim, lots of relaxing with the farrier doing some handling and building trust with him). Just had to find the right farrier. I would suggest an NH instructor as they can help sort these issues out.

I had one embarrasing vet visit where the vet could not even get close enough to touch him, and yet he would stand for me to pick his feet up. Nowadays he is a lot better - but it took quite some time to sort out.
 
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