Seedy toe nightmare :(

Michen

Michen

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For those that don't know my 5 year old Connemara gelding arrived from Ireland in march, bought as a project, in very poor condition and developed a hole in his foot that seemed likely to be an old abscess hole opening up.

Long story short the infection kept tracking up this hole, x rays showed a gas pocket and the hoof wall was resected to about half way up and the horse was shod all round (he had rock crunching barefoot hooves).

Hole grew out nicely, fast forward nearly six months and (to make the story shorter) he is diagnosed with mild laminae inflammation and medial bone bruising (pedal bone) in front hooves- within the "medial distal aspect of the third phalanx- to quote the report- and not much to be seen on the hind other than an underrunning of the hoof wall corresponding to where the seedy toe is/was (pretty much grown out). Liphook felt the front feet bruising/inflammation were compensatory from a hind issue that in reality has probably been rumbling for about a year. But clearly there's a hoof imbalance here as the bruising was in a specific area where he's been overloading.

We are now 6 weeks post diagnosis, the vet recommended walk work for this time period before reassessment. He's actually had 4 weeks off and I have just stared long reining him in walk. He was reassessed on Friday and the vet found, just visible under the shoe, that the original seedy toe hole (which had grown out) is back.

I am gutted that a) I didn't find it sooner, myself. I've been so focused on getting his frogs in shape for shoe removal, and there is no hole to be seen on the outer hoof wall, it didn't even occur to me that it could be re opening under the (wide toed) shoe.. and b) this damn hole is back, clearly the weakness there has remained.

The vet was quite pessimistic about this, whilst the hole is no where near as big as it was it's no great news and with muddy fields etc it won't be the easiest to manage. On the plus side he now appears sound in front and is only very slightly lame on the holey hoof, and only on a hard circle (it could be seen in a straight line before).

So my plan is to remove all shoes Monday. Cleantrax the hoof, then pack before turnout with red horse artimud, scrubbing out each evening and leaving open to air overnight in stable. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Are there any other products that people recommend?

I don't know what else I can do to help this horse from the inside out, he's on forage plus hoof balancer, he looks fantastic but any suggestions welcome!
 
Nothing useful to add, sounds like you are doing all of the right things.
Well done for persevering, you've not had much luck with horses recently. I know how disheartening it is, mine was off for most of the summer having ulcer treatment and it gets a bit depressing- seeing others off out riding when I was stuck grooming! They just don't make life easy sometimes and they can't tell you what's wrong - so frustrating! Hope your horse makes a full recovery and soon!
 
He hasn't got that genetic problem connies have has he? Hoof wall separation disease, which you can test for now.

I've also heard that packing the hole with copper sulphate crystals and Vaseline can get on top of difficult seedy toe - but never tried it.
 
SEL said:
He hasn't got that genetic problem connies have has he? Hoof wall separation disease, which you can test for now.

I've also heard that packing the hole with copper sulphate crystals and Vaseline can get on top of difficult seedy toe - but never tried it.
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No, he doesn't thankfully!
 
Evie91 said:
Nothing useful to add, sounds like you are doing all of the right things.
Well done for persevering, you've not had much luck with horses recently. I know how disheartening it is, mine was off for most of the summer having ulcer treatment and it gets a bit depressing- seeing others off out riding when I was stuck grooming! They just don't make life easy sometimes and they can't tell you what's wrong - so frustrating! Hope your horse makes a full recovery and soon!
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Thank you! Hope your horse is ok now.
 
I used to have a mare that got seedy toe she also ended up having surgery as it had infected part of the pedal bone so it had to be cut out, I used to scrub the feet then using a very small syringe put a milton solution or iodine around the white line which was advised by my vet, she would have little flare ups but we kept on top of it and it never tracked back up, unfortunately I lost her a few years later to laminitis but she did have cushings and ems but that's a whole other story.

I think now your aware it could be something that could come back as long as you do whatever you can to prevent it you should be able to keep on top of it, your plan sounds good although I have never used any of the products you mention I have heard they are very good.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I used to have a mare that got seedy toe she also ended up having surgery as it had infected part of the pedal bone so it had to be cut out, I used to scrub the feet then using a very small syringe put a milton solution or iodine around the white line which was advised by my vet, she would have little flare ups but we kept on top of it and it never tracked back up, unfortunately I lost her a few years later to laminitis but she did have cushings and ems but that's a whole other story.

I think now your aware it could be something that could come back as long as you do whatever you can to prevent it you should be able to keep on top of it, your plan sounds good although I have never used any of the products you mention I have heard they are very good.
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Eek. That is my fear re pedal bone and one of the reasons we resected last time.
 
You will remember the ghastly pics that I have previously posted about my homebred's seedy toe resection?

Her seedy toe came back after the first resection, though we thought initially that it had gone. Vet went back in and dremmelled it out again, but much more extensively. She came good, and has (fingers crossed) been seedy toe free for 21/2 years now. She's 6, sound and and competing regularly.

Don't despair yet, but hugs, it's rotten luck for you.
 
Tiddlypom said:
You will remember the ghastly pics that I have previously posted about my homebred's seedy toe resection?

Her seedy toe came back after the first resection, though we thought initially that it had gone. Vet went back in and dremmelled it out again, but much more extensively. She came good, and has (fingers crossed) been seedy toe free for 21/2 years now. She's 6, sound and and competing regularly.

Don't despair yet, but hugs, it's rotten luck for you.
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That's very interesting that yours came back too!! The hole is a lot smaller, and vet definitely didn't seem to think it needed dremelling out again but I can't help but wonder whether taking a smaller section of hoof wall now and getting more on top of it would be better!
 
Michen said:
Eek. That is my fear re pedal bone and one of the reasons we resected last time.
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I know she didn't really have much of an entry hole there for it to track up it was basically a crack in the front of the hoof barely visable, the surgery was straight forward it was done with her standing heavily sedated and she had a surgical plate fitted with 3 months box rest, although it was straight forward you definitely want to try and avoid this happening the aftercare was hard going, the infected bone was easily seen on an xray so I suppose if you are really concerned at any time an xray will confirm either way, I really hope it doesn't get to that point I think you have been through enough really:(
 
Until the vet dremmels in, he/she won't know how bad the seedy toe is. M's was far worse than it appeared from the outside, it had tracked up and round nearly as far as the coronet band. I wouldn't mess about with cleantrax etc for something persisting this long, it needs serious action.

My vet had never seen anything like it before, and he's an ex team GB equine vet.
 
I wonder if the shoe has allowed a bit of muck to remain there and softened the area, getting it off and having proper access to it may be enough for you to get on top of things before it gets worse, your plan sounds good to me, it needs to be kept dry but also to have exposure to air, I would get some more movement on hard ground into that plan some walking on the road to stimulate growth may be useful.
The only one I have had with seedy toe, nothing as bad as yours, healed up within weeks after his shoes were removed with very little intervention from me.
 
my farrier recommended removing shoes. horse is 2 years barefoot and had great feet now. we previously had 3 years of battling seedy toe. cleantrax is great as is hoof disinfectant any brand. I found it good to change brand from time to time. what eventually cleared it up for good was the shoe removal and applying copper sulphate crystals mixed with petroleum jelly into the cavity.
 
be positive said:
I wonder if the shoe has allowed a bit of muck to remain there and softened the area, getting it off and having proper access to it may be enough for you to get on top of things before it gets worse, your plan sounds good to me, it needs to be kept dry but also to have exposure to air, I would get some more movement on hard ground into that plan some walking on the road to stimulate growth may be useful.
The only one I have had with seedy toe, nothing as bad as yours, healed up within weeks after his shoes were removed with very little intervention from me.
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I completely agree and I am so cross that having had that exact conversation with the vet, who agreed, I then found he had been shod all round when I picked him up from the vets. So frustrating but what's done is done. At least he is sounder!
 
ester said:
ah I got confused I thought they had just found hole and reshod him, whereas they have just found hole under shoe?
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Aha no sorry, the vet found the hole at check up (despite shoe being on)- I missed it frustratingly. He packed it and left shoe on for assessment, waiting for my farrier to come to remove them all.
 
He really shouldn't still be unsound on that back foot, Michen. I would ask for a second opinion and further tests if he was mine. Has the back foot been MRI'd?
 
ycbm said:
He really shouldn't still be unsound on that back foot, Michen. I would ask for a second opinion and further tests if he was mine. Has the back foot been MRI'd?
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Yes it was MRId, there was nothing to see other than the original area of seedy toe. He's 1/10 lame on a hard circle and I don't think that's unreasonable given he's had this problem for the best part of a year I imagine. Especially given the hole is now back.
 
M was barefoot and on box rest for 10 to 14 days post resection. During this time I treated her daily with an anti fungal spray. I had her in a bare stable during the day, which allowed air to get to it, and back to a bedded stable at night. After that, she had to be shod, as so much hoof wall had to be removed that the foot was unviable without extra support. She was then turned out 24/7.

First time round, the hole was packed with an inert polymer filler. Second time round, we used keratex hoof putty, which has antibacterial properties and was easy to remove every few days to air the hole and spray it with alamycin. It took the best part of a year to fully grow out.

I'll pm you the name of the vet who dealt with M's seedy toe saga.
 
Michen said:
Yes it was MRId, there was nothing to see other than the original area of seedy toe. He's 1/10 lame on a hard circle and I don't think that's unreasonable given he's had this problem for the best part of a year I imagine. Especially given the hole is now back.
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I suspect, having seen him, that in part the unlevelness is due to him being a bit weak behind rather than being in pain, he is probably still a little sore and careful turning on the hard but on the straight is just not moving through as well as he should be capable of, keep trying to strengthen him up generally and he should improve as long as the foot doesn't deteriorate further once the shoes come off.
 
Hang in there! My mare had seedy toe relating to a small crack to the front of her hoof that just kept reappearing. Lots and lots of patience plus packing it out with Red Horse Hoof Stuff really helped. I did eventually go but took a good 9-10 months I would say.
 
Cleantrax is like magic in my world, but you do need to do the full length soak in the proper boot, all the way up the leg. Repeat after 2 weeks for serious infections. I've seen spectacular recoveries in horses that have previously had all manner of resections and interference!
 
Michen said:
For those that don't know my 5 year old Connemara gelding arrived from Ireland in march, bought as a project, in very poor condition and developed a hole in his foot that seemed likely to be an old abscess hole opening up.

Long story short the infection kept tracking up this hole, x rays showed a gas pocket and the hoof wall was resected to about half way up and the horse was shod all round (he had rock crunching barefoot hooves).

Hole grew out nicely, fast forward nearly six months and (to make the story shorter) he is diagnosed with mild laminae inflammation and medial bone bruising (pedal bone) in front hooves- within the "medial distal aspect of the third phalanx- to quote the report- and not much to be seen on the hind other than an underrunning of the hoof wall corresponding to where the seedy toe is/was (pretty much grown out). Liphook felt the front feet bruising/inflammation were compensatory from a hind issue that in reality has probably been rumbling for about a year. But clearly there's a hoof imbalance here as the bruising was in a specific area where he's been overloading.

We are now 6 weeks post diagnosis, the vet recommended walk work for this time period before reassessment. He's actually had 4 weeks off and I have just stared long reining him in walk. He was reassessed on Friday and the vet found, just visible under the shoe, that the original seedy toe hole (which had grown out) is back.

I am gutted that a) I didn't find it sooner, myself. I've been so focused on getting his frogs in shape for shoe removal, and there is no hole to be seen on the outer hoof wall, it didn't even occur to me that it could be re opening under the (wide toed) shoe.. and b) this damn hole is back, clearly the weakness there has remained.

The vet was quite pessimistic about this, whilst the hole is no where near as big as it was it's no great news and with muddy fields etc it won't be the easiest to manage. On the plus side he now appears sound in front and is only very slightly lame on the holey hoof, and only on a hard circle (it could be seen in a straight line before).

So my plan is to remove all shoes Monday. Cleantrax the hoof, then pack before turnout with red horse artimud, scrubbing out each evening and leaving open to air overnight in stable. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Are there any other products that people recommend?

I don't know what else I can do to help this horse from the inside out, he's on forage plus hoof balancer, he looks fantastic but any suggestions welcome!
Click to expand...

When one of mine had seedy toe, it was hard to get rid of but with good farrier work we got it really under control.
 
MissTyc said:
Cleantrax is like magic in my world, but you do need to do the full length soak in the proper boot, all the way up the leg. Repeat after 2 weeks for serious infections. I've seen spectacular recoveries in horses that have previously had all manner of resections and interference!
Click to expand...

I can testify to the magical properties of Cleantrax! My mare, who is unshod, had been footy on stony tracks, which is awkward because we live along a stony track, farrier found that her feet were cracking because of a fungal infection in the hoof wall and recommended Cleantrax. Unfortunately it too almost 2 weeks for it to arrive, we sprayed her feet with Teatree spray several times in the interim. The Cleantrax arrived and she is sound! Without even having to open the bottle!:D We would not be able to use the proper boot for my mare, as she has enormous feet!
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
When one of mine had seedy toe, it was hard to get rid of but with good farrier work we got it really under control.
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What sort of good farrier work? The horse has received good farrier work since arriving in the country so far so what are you suggesting is done differently?

PaS distance magic I love it! :D
 
Of course there is, Michen asked for suggestions, but 'good farriery' doesn't really explain much that she could do, unless you were suggesting she find another farrier?
Was it that your horse was shod but your farrier applied a treatment while shoeing that stayed in with a shoe? Did he resect regularly? Did he shoe more frequently? Did he wait around while a cleantrax treatment worked? Did he not shoe at all?
 
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